Cael vs Heroic Ragnaros

Hi all, i dont know too much about how far guilds are away from killing heroic ragnaros.
I just know that heroic rags has beaten cael in 4.2, is it just me or has the average player on cael's skill droppped dramatically in 4.2 with transfers and such, guilds are either disbanding going 10 man or just getting away from the server, even the average pug is more derp than usual, and now we are down to only 1 25 man raiding guild. in 3.3 top guild were SOS, Epitaph and inexorable all 25 man, since these guilds have disbanded cael has really done nothing special. In 3.3 there was only 1 guild that decided to go for gold and kill LK in heroic mode which was epi, but epitaph recruited alot of outsiders mostly from SOS inexorable and cool whip, can we see this happening again in 4.3 for heroic madness???

just another thing i wanted to add Cael is now 2nd worse server for progression ocienic next to gundrak. being on the server that beats gundrak only is kind of dissapointing.

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85 Worgen Priest
11200
11/28/2011 02:27 PMPosted by Câmeron
just another thing i wanted to add Cael is now 2nd worse server for progression ocienic next to gundrak. being on the server that beats gundrak only is kind of dissapointing


to say the least..



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100 Troll Rogue
15920
This isn't really that surprising? Going from history since wrath.

No heroic Anub kill on 25s while content was still the top tier.

No Alone in the dark Yog kill on 25s while content was still relevant (epi killed it when they had a few weeks of icc gear) they had the persistence to keep trying.

One Heroic LK 25 kill (which epi couldnt repeat) after 4.0 came out which buffed everyone's hp about 30% and made caster dps insane, again they had the persistence to keep trying when everyone else had given up and were waiting for the expansion.

Crimson did a great job of getting Sinestra down pre 4.2 but no one else was even attempting it at that point and has even bothered killing it even on 10s except Cool Whip since 4.2.

No guild on Cael at 6/7 heroic 25s pre nerf.

I don't think we really have a guild raiding more then 10 hours or so a week even during progression, you simply don't have the time to put in 100's of attempts on bosses with that kind of a raiding schedule.

Getting to the brick wall bosses and then having to sit half your healing core to reach an insane dps check, the cool dudes who generally play well but lag just a little bit or the ones who have always done well but just can't deal with a boss mechanic even after they see it dozens of times causes turnover and burnout.

We don't really have the new people coming in to the server to replace all the talented raiders leaving the game or transferring off, I am seeing quite a few people come back to the game though recently hopefully they stick around.

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85 Human Priest
4695
getting Sinestra down pre 4.2


Unfortunately, Sinestra was killed during H-Firelands progression :(

Nefarian, Al'akir and Cho'gall where killed before 4.2 :P
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85 Undead Priest
1530
It's because new players have no way of reaching the top level, the guilds ask for gear that new players can't get because pugs are bad. Then you try to work hard forming your own pugs then those players that are bad and have been around for a while start hating on people.

You ask for new players yet you don't help. Can't really blame the server for dying. Anyway thats my opion and I don't care if you don't give a !@#$ :P
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100 Troll Rogue
15920
It's because new players have no way of reaching the top level, the guilds ask for gear that new players can't get because pugs are bad. Then you try to work hard forming your own pugs then those players that are bad and have been around for a while start hating on people.

You ask for new players yet you don't help. Can't really blame the server for dying. Anyway thats my opion and I don't care if you don't give a !@#$ :P


Seeings you can over generalize I can as well, a lot of new players don't have the stamina for progression on a tough fight. Wipe 50 to 100 times on a tough boss? Must be time to find a new guild or stop showing up to progression raids!

We can and will take an under geared character with a good attitude and a good app especially at the start of a tier.
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85 Human Priest
4695
11/28/2011 05:25 PMPosted by Zzheals
It's because new players have no way of reaching the top level, the guilds ask for gear that new players can't get because pugs are bad. Then you try to work hard forming your own pugs then those players that are bad and have been around for a while start hating on people.


New players DO have a way to reach the "top" level. If you're willing to put in the time and effort into your character, you can quite easily find yourself raiding with these kinds of guilds. The people in these guilds didn't just magically become good overnight.. These new players just feel they have no need to play better when everything is handed to them through VP rewards and entire raid instances getting nerfed.

In my opinion this will only get worse with the introduction of the Raid Finder (not saying I don't like the raid finder- it'll be amazing for gearing alts). New players to the game will likely see no reason to go through all the stress and drama of progression raiding when they can log on 1 night a week, queue for LFR and get some new shiny purples.


11/28/2011 05:25 PMPosted by Zzheals
You ask for new players yet you don't help.


Goes back to my point about not putting in effort. If you're not willing to put the effort into you toon (reading recent discussions on EJ, looking up boss strats etc) why do you expect others to help?

I mean, straight away looking at your toon I can see you haven't put in the effort to get Helm/Sholder enchants? No progression guild would take someone without their gear being fully enchanted/gemmed.

my 2c
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getting to the topic of recruiting, people who think that they cant get into a guild cause they lack gear and all that crap are wrong unless your sitting in blues. Top tier guilds dont look at ur item level and fap they look at how well you know your class, are you enchanting right have you got the right spec gems etc etc. never be intimidated to apply to a pro guild that are 7/7 heroic because even if you do get declined they will tell you why and you will learn something out of it.
i got recruited by penguins and polar bears 3 weeks ago in full T10, they gave me a chance and i passed and only 3 weeks later im nearly as geared as thier players that have been clearing 6/7 heroic for weeks now. any good guild will take any application seriously just do your research and know your class, anyone ina top guild will agree to this. ZZheals your a noob get out
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100 Troll Rogue
15920
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunning%E2%80%93Kruger_effect

Enough said.


[Edit not calling out anyone in this thread just this explains the attitude I see alot in pugs]
Edited by Sabod on 11/28/2011 7:00 PM PST
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85 Orc Death Knight
5400
What We Are Looking For

We are looking for mature members, aged 18 and above. We need people who have a "team-first" mentality, that sets aside personal glory for the good of his or her team. They must be patient as well, as we are currently finalizing the rosters to have set teams.

Before entering the raid they should be ready by knowing the strategies of the bosses for that evening, with the proper stacks of food, flasks and potions. In short, Firelands ready


look at any guild's recruitment thread. Never have i seen one that says "you have to be fully geared"
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85 Human Rogue
8120
When 10mans became the easier choice in raiding, this was the last nail in the coffin, incentive to put up with 24 other people died the moment you could get everything in 10man.

Only reasons why most of the 25 mans progressed so easily (cata) is, motivation and 3/4 skilled players, or/and absorbing those 3/4 into your guild to push right before the new patches.

Real progression and competition died with;

- Original Absolution's death (reform being merely 1/4 of the original core)
- And inexorable was only a spark of awesome for a short time before people realized it was once a gain 1/4 of the core, mostly filled with raiders not willing to put in the hours, effort, weak minded wrath babies....
- Warlord dis-band (1 less guild to rival)
- BC SOS death (although sos is still largely active, it is nowhere near as mighty as it was, one could say its original leaders was what motivated it's steam rolling, as well as friendly competition, RIP the mighty leaders of SOS 1/4 olds left.)
- Epita....... Just no you where the rebound of all the other awesome guilds, sorry guys, you really did suck.

Death of Ceals progression started in Ulduar, and reached its vertex release of ICC.

11/28/2011 02:27 PMPosted by Câmeron
can we see this happening again in 4.3 for heroic madness???


Nope, when the reforms considered merges, that was the day possibility of reforms died.

Ill be honest, I think the catalyst of ceals death was due to Saurfang openning, and 2 guild disbands.
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85 Undead Priest
1530
I've read intently into my lock and her class I ask Taita almost every time I get a new peice I research that peice and everything. My lock is almost as good as she can get with out being in a high end raiding guild, IMO my raid awerness if fine can do some touching up. Yet I get declined from guilds because I'm missing that 2k gold enchant for my bracers or somthing stupied :(


In other words : I'm mad QQ


Also I don't play this toon just post on it cause everyone knows me :P

Also not everyone has the time or the patience to go farm rep for 6 hours just to get a shoulder enchant. You can't judge a player on how they gem/enchant there toons ( excluding DKS with god damn SP <3 ) some players like to play their toons diffrently to how the spreedsheets show they max deeps. You can't judge a book by its cover you must first open it and explore its contents.
Edited by Zzheals on 11/28/2011 10:05 PM PST
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85 Human Priest
4695
I've read intently into my lock and her class I ask Taita almost every time I get a new peice I research that peice and everything.


The fact that you need to ask someone each time you get a new piece shows you're not ready for end-game progression raiding. It's like being "that guy" in the office who bugs everyone else about how to do his job. You won't last long.

Also not everyone has the time or the patience to go farm rep for 6 hours just to get a shoulder enchant.


And that right there is what separates the Casuals from the Raiders..
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1 Human Rogue
0
I've read intently into my lock and her class I ask Taita almost every time I get a new peice.

/thread
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Strey have my babys K. they will be raiders not casuals

11/28/2011 10:22 PMPosted by Strey
And that right there is what separates the Casuals from the Raiders..
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85 Orc Warlock
6890
The experience level of your average raid member back in BC within Abso, Epi and SOS (although I never raided with SOS) was a lot higher than that of today. It has little to do with gear. In Wrath and now Cata, you can go from total noob to app'ing to a top end guild within a number of weeks. In BC to app to a top guild progressing through Sunwell and be accepted, you would be expected to have months if not years of experience at full time 25 man raiding. The new players of today just dont have that.

The fact is that there are no players like that currently app'ing to the top guilds atm, due to the zerging and skipping of content and the vital experience it brings.

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85 Human Rogue
8120

You can't judge a player on how they gem/enchant there toons


I was going to leave you alone and not dig out of feeling less spiteful today; but,
We all have lives, I got my enchants via doing dailies every day, total time spent each time I logged on, 15minutes.

Stop talking crap.
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85 Orc Warlock
7720
11/28/2011 10:01 PMPosted by Zzheals
Yet I get declined from guilds because I'm missing that 2k gold enchant for my bracers or somthing stupied :(


gold is so hard to make in cata yee



11/28/2011 10:01 PMPosted by Zzheals
I've read intently into my lock and her class I ask Taita almost every time I get a new peice I research that peice and everything


this is your second mistake
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85 Troll Hunter
10400
Ahhh the good ole' days when Cael was bustling with 25 man guild progression.
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