Combat Rogue reforging

85 Blood Elf Death Knight
2870
The EJ guide is a bit confusing. The stat weight for spell hit cap is higher than mastery, but it goes on to say that we should be reforging (assuming 8%/26 already) haste > mastery instead of haste > spell hit > mastery. What's the general opinion on combat reforging and stat caps?
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90 Blood Elf Rogue
Vex
0
http://shadowcraft.mmo-mumble.com/

I also don't see where it says reforge mastery over spell hit, could you link the appropriate section?
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85 Blood Elf Death Knight
2870
It seems I was mistaken, I couldn't find it either. I could have sworn... I'm aware of that website, although it's pretty useless to me at level 82. It tried to have me reforge into 40 expertise, so maybe it only uses 85 values?
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90 Blood Elf Rogue
Vex
0
You don't need to worry about reforging and the like at that level. The combat ratings are all different. And will continue to change each level. Invalidating anything that uses lvl85 combat ratings.

Also, your 6% Hit Rating from Precision should be covering you completely. So if you're reforging just get dodge soft capped on expertise and then all haste, or more simply, all haste. Nothing is going to live long enough for it to ever actually matter.

I'd just focus more on getting gear together for lvl85 and getting those last 3 levels. Rather than reforging all your gear every time you get a new piece.
Edited by Caera on 11/18/2011 2:51 PM PST
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85 Blood Elf Death Knight
2870
I'm just so used to reforging every time I get new gear that I feel silly if I'm sitting on something that can be improved. Totally agree though, I'm pretty much just wasting gold.

I have two questions that don't seem worth making a thread for, if you're still around. When Blade Flurry is active, does Revealing Strike transfer over the extra damage? Basically, should I be bothering with RS during the rare trash pull that lets me build up a full finisher? Also, is it worth making a Pyrium Spellward if I already have a Tremendous Tankard O' Terror for 85? Chances are I won't be seeing Firelands anytime soon on my Rogue, if that matters.
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96 Blood Elf Rogue
16305
Yeah before 85 there's not much point in reforging since your gear is likely to get replaced a little faster, plus leveling content isn't tuned for optimal stats really, it's tuned for you to have whatever quest rewards of dungeon drops you happened to get.

Also, it's worth noting that until you start raiding shadowcraft won't be the best source for reforging tips because the hit and expertise caps are higher for raid bosses than they are for 5-man heroics. For 5-man heroics the spell hit cap is 6% and expertise cap is 24, and since Combat gets 6% melee/spell hit chance from talents that means that we're already spell hit capped for 5-mans without any gear.

Actually, that may be where you read about reforging mastery over hit. Because of our talents, our stat priorities for 5-mans is:
expt cap > haste > mastery > hit=crit

You may have come across this information in Caera's Cloak and Daggers sticky and missed the reason why combat should ignore hit for 5mans and/or confused different parts.
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96 Blood Elf Rogue
16305
I'm not positive about RvS and blade flurry, I think it should transfer it, but even if it doesn't it'll still be worth it to use RvS in those situations anyways since it's still more damage on your current target at no extra cost on your secondary target.

As for the weapon question, that's largely a question of price and your own desire for optimization. The sword is better than the tankard but not by a whole lot (mainly because is has 2 more agi and 10 more total secondary stats). Generally the tankard is very cheap, while the sword tends to be pretty costly to buy or have crafted. So it'd be a lot of gold for a minor upgrade. I'd personally probably stick to the tankard, but again it comes down to your own opinions.

Also, if you're not likely to be raiding anytime soon then the tankard is probably a lot better than the sword since again, the hit on the sword is very low in value for 5mans.
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85 Blood Elf Death Knight
2870
First of all thanks a ton for the replies so far, very helpful crowd here. I appreciate it a lot.

11/18/2011 04:32 PMPosted by Pancakê
For 5-man heroics the spell hit cap is 6% and expertise cap is 24, and since Combat gets 6% melee/spell hit chance from talents that means that we're already spell hit capped for 5-mans without any gear.

Is that really true? It seems weird that expertise only jumps from 24 to 26 between dungeons and raid bosses, but spell hit jumps from 6% to 17%. If so that's pretty convenient for heroics!

11/18/2011 04:38 PMPosted by Pancakê
I'm not positive about RvS and blade flurry, I think it should transfer it, but even if it doesn't it'll still be worth it to use RvS in those situations anyways since it's still more damage on your current target at no extra cost on your secondary target.

My concern was using RvS to gain damage on one mob but also losing that last SS on both for potentially only getting the extra finisher % on one. From some quick testing it seems that RvS actually does transfer during BF though (that or RvS doesn't work at all with BF up) since my battle text addon is showing the same damage being done twice on my finisher. [Edit: Was wrong, RvS doesn't transfer]
Edited by Komachi on 11/19/2011 2:22 AM PST
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96 Blood Elf Rogue
16305
Yeah, the expt jump isn't very much when going from a +2 mob to a +3 mob but that's because it's only the soft cap (undodgeable). Against a +2 mob that 24 expt also makes you unparryable, the extra 2 expertise is only the increase in dodge chance that a raid boss has, the parry chance on the other hand skyrockets to needing 56 expertise to cover it. Luckily we don't worry about parry cap except in very very rare circumstances.

Spell hit on the other hand does jump up quite a bit (personally I think the reason for that is because the amount of hit rating needed to gain 17% spell hit, without talents, is very very close to the same amount of total hit and expt rating needed to reach 8% melee hit and 26 expertise, without talents. so I think it might be scaled that way so that melee and ranged have the same "accuracy" related base requirements before talents or factoring in spec priorities). While on the other hand the caps for mobs 2 levels higher than you easily falls into leveling content, so hit caps are lower to avoid punishing toons that are still leveling and just using whatever they happen to get.
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85 Night Elf Rogue
9030
Also, is it worth making a Pyrium Spellward if I already have a Tremendous Tankard O' Terror for 85? Chances are I won't be seeing Firelands anytime soon on my Rogue, if that matters.

Keep the tankard, the sword isn't worth the extra gold. Plugging myself into ShadowCraft and changing everything for combat, the Pyrium Spellward is only ahead of the Tremendous Tankard O' Terror by 28.8 dps, and that's probably magnified compared to what it would be for you because of my higher gear level. They're basically the same weapon, no reason to not use the tankard.
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Is membrane of cthun better than vicious glad season 10 helm? I didn't think so....maybe??
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85 Night Elf Rogue
9030
11/19/2011 01:22 PMPosted by Twinkizz
Is membrane of cthun better than vicious glad season 10 helm? I didn't think so....maybe??

http://shadowcraft.mmo-mumble.com/
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90 Undead Rogue
14455
11/18/2011 04:25 PMPosted by Komachi
I have two questions that don't seem worth making a thread for, if you're still around. When Blade Flurry is active, does Revealing Strike transfer over the extra damage?


Sort of, yes.

Blade flurry transfers all direct physical damage. if you RvS -> evis, both targets will be hit by the boosted damage.
Note: if you RvS -> rupture, it will only damage your target.

This is why on fights like Halfus, where 1 target takes extra damage, you should attack him directly and blade flurry the adds, it gives you the bonus damage against both targets.
Edited by Kamikazestab on 11/19/2011 1:46 PM PST
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90 Blood Elf Rogue
Vex
0
11/19/2011 01:43 PMPosted by Kamikazestab
Note: if you RvS -> rupture, it will only damage your target.
This is why Rupture is removed from the rotation in any Blade Flurry situation, since none of its damage is mirrored to the BF target making Eviscerate the hands down better option every finisher cycle.

I realize you basically intoned this, just putting it out there directly.
Edited by Caera on 11/19/2011 1:58 PM PST
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85 Blood Elf Death Knight
2870
Interesting... I was testing out RvS with BF in a dungeon and that's what made me change my mind from thinking it worked. I was consistently seeing two finisher strikes of different damage. Perhaps BF factors in debuffs after transferring damage?
Edited by Komachi on 11/19/2011 3:49 PM PST
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