4.3 Raid Finder Loot Rules

85 Troll Priest
4155

Because then dps that use spirit would ALWAYS lose to healers. How does someone gear up if they have zero chance to start with of winning the roll?
And secondly, find me any caster leather or caster mail with hit on it. There is none.


You're missing the point. Spirit is required for healers, changed to hit for those who are not. Fatal flaw in game design. The ridiculousness of loosing spirit items to shadowpriests and warlocks... That was the point.
90 Tauren Druid
12670

Because then dps that use spirit would ALWAYS lose to healers. How does someone gear up if they have zero chance to start with of winning the roll?
And secondly, find me any caster leather or caster mail with hit on it. There is none.


You're missing the point. Spirit is required for healers, changed to hit for those who are not. Fatal flaw in game design. The ridiculousness of loosing spirit items to shadowpriests and warlocks... That was the point.


I'm not a healer, but I'm pretty sure you don't want spirit everywhere.

Shadow priests have an exact same right to spirit as you do.
Warlocks don't (and they won't in raid finder).
85 Troll Priest
4155

I'm not a healer, but I'm pretty sure you don't want spirit everywhere.


You clearly don't understand what they did to healers with mana this x-pac then.
85 Worgen Rogue
5255
Forever Rogues have had to contend with the original Agility Stat Loot Ninja, aka the Hunter (also known as the Huntard); and now Blizz gives us a New & Improved Loot Ninja, the Tanking Druid…!

Makes it almost a forgone conclusion that, if entering the LFR party and seeing a Druid in the Tank slot, a Rogue just might as well drop group, take the debuff, and hope for better luck in the next LFR group…! Because if Agility Leather Armor of Trinkets drop, Rogues are not going to be able to get them… /sadface

And once MoP comes around, we get an All New & Improved Loot Ninja (with Kung-Fu Grip…!) in the Tank/DPS Monk class toons…!

(See what I did there…!?!)

Come on Blizz, quit dumping on Rogues and allow us to gear up without some Bear Druid sucking up all the Agility Leather Armor simply because they are filling the role of Tank…

Here is an idea, make the Combat tree for Rogues into a Tanking tree, and give us Combat Rogues the extra love that one apparently gets when deciding to Tank over DPSing…!

GRRRRRRRRR…!!!
85 Blood Elf Priest
6105

You clearly don't understand what they did to healers with mana this x-pac then.


Holy scales nearly exclusively with spirit. Make no mistake, though, that's a holy priest thing, not a healer thing. A lot of healers reforge out of spirit currently.
90 Blood Elf Priest
14765
Wow, this thread made me /facepalm a whole lot.

People seem to like reading into obviously stupid ways for this to work. Think it through. So many people are just looking for things to jump on Blizzard about.

No, bear druids will not get priority over rogues. They will both get the bonus on agility leather. You really think Blizzard would give one spec priority over another when they obviously both need the gear? When have they EVER done that? This is the most restrictive they've ever been with the loot system! Think before you post, for heaven's sake.

The ONLY DPS that will be able to roll on spirit gear is Shadow Priests, either spec of Shaman, and Balance and Kitty Druids. Unfortunately the system can't differentiate spec, so any DPS Shaman and Druid will be able to roll. IMPORTANT: THERE IS NO CASTER LEATHER OR MAIL WITH HIT ON IT. This has been true since the start of Cata, how do people still not know this? Yes, that means that Moonkin and Elemental shaman get the same priority as Restos because spirit gear=DPS gear for those classes. Spirit is not a healer only stat anymore.

Spirit gear is available to certain DPS specs because it is equivalent to hit for them. That means that no, warlocks and mages will not be able to get priority on your spirit gear. Why? Because they have no such spirit conversion talent.

Get those gears in your brains working, guys. Stop being so bloody dense. Blizzard is not intentionally trying to screw you over for absolutely zero reason.
85 Blood Elf Priest
6105
But what about items that can be considered both DPS and Tank,

For example with DKs atm they HAVE to be hit/exp capped and they stack mastery, is the system going to allow an equal roll for an item that has for example hit/mastery because it could go for either tanking or dps...

This is going to be one heck of a poo storm when it goes live....


DK's don't HAVE to be hit/exp capped in 4.3. With the constraints of what they have to work with on a system basis, they want it to be as reasonable as possible. Tanks will obviously be able to roll on items without tanking stats as need+ to handle, if nothing else, the case of druids -- since tanking leather has not existed in a long time.

It's only for one tier anyways. They've said 5.x will have a better system where they can differentiate based on spec.
Edited by Mescyn on 11/24/2011 8:46 AM PST
90 Blood Elf Death Knight
13955
Are you counting mastery as both a tanking and DPS Stat for plate?
85 Pandaren Warrior
4755
Are there any plans on extending this system to 5-mans, if not in 4.3 then maybe in MoP? There's been a lot of debate in the community over what "proper" etiquette is for rolling on offspec items in 5-mans (a debate that will most likely be renewed with the 378 items in 4.3 heroics), and having this system in 5-mans would be a lot better than guessing whether the plate DPS in your group is going to "ninja" the tanking plate (or, to be fair, whether the tank will "ninja" the DPS plate).

Yes, I know you can ask the group whether you can roll on OS or not, but with how temperamental pug groups are these days, I usually try to say as little as possible (and if they say no, there's no guarantee that they'll return the favor). I think having this system in 5-mans would eliminate a LOT of loot drama.
90 Tauren Druid
12670
11/24/2011 09:47 AMPosted by Kyogre
Are you counting mastery as both a tanking and DPS Stat for plate?


Mastery is an everyone stat.
100 Night Elf Warrior
12180
What are they counting as a tank stat? just dodge and parry? or mastery and stamina?
11/24/2011 09:47 AMPosted by Kyogre
Are you counting mastery as both a tanking and DPS Stat for plate?


The only stats that are counted as tank stats are parry/dodge since they are the only stats that do absolutely nothin for your dps.

11/24/2011 10:11 AMPosted by Greygull
What are they counting as a tank stat? just dodge and parry? or mastery and stamina?


For the purposes of loot rolls, the only stats that are looked at are secondary stats.
Edited by Pollia on 11/24/2011 10:13 AM PST
100 Night Elf Warrior
12180
Thanks Pollia

I still like it better as is, if its an upgrade its an upgrade, with reforgring alot of gear is really interchangable among specs and roles. But meh
85 Worgen Hunter
6480
Thanks for the explanation to everyone Bashiok. Overall the system seems to work pretty well. I look forward to the MoP change though where it recognizes spec.

When I heal Raid Finder on my druid, I have no qualms about the system. But, when I go on the hunter, it's rather irritating when Boomkins win the rolls on the agi rings/trinkets. But, you guys know about the issue and we know a fix is coming in new expansion.

Simply acknowledging that you intend to fix it makes the loot disparity of this next tier a bit less annoying to deal with. The current system on LFR is still better than LFD, so I'll take what I can get.

Right now, I'm just ready for it to hit live already. I'm hooked on DS. I haven't really played live much at all this month. My guild is kinda mad at me I think. lol I've spent all my time on ptr. Dragon Soul is just absolutely a blast, especially from a healer perspective on my druid.
90 Troll Druid
12615
Why not make 4 roles in the queue

Tank
Melee DPS
Ranged DPS
Healer

Now they don't have to differentiate by spec and they'll know that those Int accessories are for healers and ranged DPS while the Str and Agi ones are for melee DPS.

And I still say it's going to suck to be a rogue in the Random Raid Finder.



So hunters do not exist on your server?
100 Draenei Warrior
14190
11/24/2011 07:41 AMPosted by Xenophics
this is so stupid. everything was better when it was realm-bound
If you don't like the system, don't use LFR.

Forever Rogues have had to contend with the original Agility Stat Loot Ninja, aka the Hunter (also known as the Huntard); and now Blizz gives us a New & Improved Loot Ninja, the Tanking Druid…!

Makes it almost a forgone conclusion that, if entering the LFR party and seeing a Druid in the Tank slot, a Rogue just might as well drop group, take the debuff, and hope for better luck in the next LFR group…! Because if Agility Leather Armor of Trinkets drop, Rogues are not going to be able to get them… /sadface
/facepalm

Repeat after me.

ROGUES AND BEARS HAVE THE SAME PRIORITY ON AGI GEAR. BEARS DO NOT GET PRIORITY OVER ROGUES.

Seriously? Why are people thinking that rogues won't get to Need+ on agi gear? There is no leather gear with tank stats (ie, dodge/parry), bears use agi gear and have for the entire expansion, so stop acting like Blizzard is trying to destroy the rogue class.
-----
Attack tables, diminishing returns and you!
http://us.battle.net/wow/en/forum/topic/2489160859
90 Tauren Shaman
1955
Bye.

You and the (insert number here) other people will not be missed.


The number you are searching for is 2million and growing. I am pretty sure someone is going to miss the 2 million and growing.
90 Blood Elf Warrior
9195

I'm not a healer, but I'm pretty sure you don't want spirit everywhere.


You clearly don't understand what they did to healers with mana this x-pac then.


And with no Cho kill, no Nef kill, and no boss kills of any kind in Firelands, I don't think you're in a position to argue the necessity of spirit (or the performance of healers) at current endgame. Aside from VP purchases, quest items, and holiday items, you're going to be 2 full tiers behind when 4.3 comes out.

Yes, healer mana was at a premium in Cata Heroics and into T11 and Troll Dungeons, but with current gear it is nowhere near the strain that it was. I'm not saying it's *easy* now, but you can't act like healers are still performing under the constraints that they were in 4.0.3.

HAVING SAID THAT, I do kind of agree that the whole Spirit -> Hit for SHADOW PRIESTS seems kind of dumb. For druids and shaman it makes some sense, it prevents Blizz from having to make separate +spirit and +hit int leather and mail when only one class uses each of those armor types.

But, when we have 3 cloth classes, 2 of them not using spirit, it doesn't make much sense for a shadow priest to use spirit. Blizz already has to make the gear for 'Locks and Mages, just let SPriests use that. Moreover, it allows for the same piece of gear (or duplicates of it with better enchants/gems) to be used for either healing or DPS, which seems kind of... unfair.

Paladins can't use STR plate to heal. Warriors can't use crit to tank.
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