World of Warcraft™

I remember I was raiding in BC for kara on a friday night around 9pm eastern and I went to log in and all of a sudden server locked average time wait 30min

I miss BC ;(

WOLK pretty much killed Anvilmar. With the re-introduction of Naxx, 10 man raiding and achievements, you had an influx of players who wanted to learn to raid. Well as it turns out, these players were terrible. Extremely terrible. This server back in vanilla and BC had some fairly competitive guilds who raided, and hell even being in the top 20 as far as raiding guilds wasn't terrible for the server.

This was due to the old raiding model. If you wanted to raid and see content you had to be dedicated to a point. Raiding 4 nights a week for 4 hours each night was considered casual. Spending weeks learning and practicing a single fight was the norm. Loot acquirement was slow and ultimately rewarding. You didn't expect to get a character completely geared out within a couple weeks.

Then bam, WOLK. You have Naxx which in it's WOLK form was probably the easiest tier of content to date. It had what...15 bosses total? If you weren't completely terrible clearing it within 2 nights was relatively easy, then you take the 10 people from your 25 man that didn't suck and clear it again the next night on 10m. Oh so many purples! So many achievements! SO MANY TERRIBLE PLAYERS AND TERRIBLE GUILDS.

Raiding less for more rewards became the new standard. For many long months people who had zero skill were suddenly the best geared on the server. All of a sudden terrible players were swelling with purple pride and bragging about their gear scores. Look at me! I die to the Heigan every week but I'm in all epics so that means I'm good! Oh look it's Thaddius, all of a sudden I don't know left from right! EVERY WEEK THE SAME TERRIBLE PEOPLE DYING, the same terrible people collecting loot while we rez their corpses.

So the community became flooded with these types of players. Recruitment became difficult seeing as how gear no longer represented the type of raider. With the introduction of Ulduar hardmodes it became clear that Anvilmar was becoming ever more destitute in regards to talent. Many guilds crumbled at the realization of their own terribleness. Some guilds transferred away. Hundreds of potentially talented raiders transferred off to greener pastures. Our top guilds begun to crumble, slowly at first, until ICC...and then it was a tidal wave of destruction sweeping across Anvilmar.

Some guilds rose from the Cataclysm, brushed the dust off their pantaloons, and reformed. New and exciting 10 man guilds were formed. But it was never the same, because in the end what we were left with is much like the current economy. You have the 1% who aren't completely terrible, and then the other 99%.

People like you.

anyone seen a dwarf rogue i need one for achieve thx

PvE is hard

WOLK pretty much killed Anvilmar. With the re-introduction of Naxx, 10 man raiding and achievements, you had an influx of players who wanted to learn to raid. Well as it turns out, these players were terrible. Extremely terrible. This server back in vanilla and BC had some fairly competitive guilds who raided, and hell even being in the top 20 as far as raiding guilds wasn't terrible for the server.

This was due to the old raiding model. If you wanted to raid and see content you had to be dedicated to a point. Raiding 4 nights a week for 4 hours each night was considered casual. Spending weeks learning and practicing a single fight was the norm. Loot acquirement was slow and ultimately rewarding. You didn't expect to get a character completely geared out within a couple weeks.

Then bam, WOLK. You have Naxx which in it's WOLK form was probably the easiest tier of content to date. It had what...15 bosses total? If you weren't completely terrible clearing it within 2 nights was relatively easy, then you take the 10 people from your 25 man that didn't suck and clear it again the next night on 10m. Oh so many purples! So many achievements! SO MANY TERRIBLE PLAYERS AND TERRIBLE GUILDS.

Raiding less for more rewards became the new standard. For many long months people who had zero skill were suddenly the best geared on the server. All of a sudden terrible players were swelling with purple pride and bragging about their gear scores. Look at me! I die to the Heigan every week but I'm in all epics so that means I'm good! Oh look it's Thaddius, all of a sudden I don't know left from right! EVERY WEEK THE SAME TERRIBLE PEOPLE DYING, the same terrible people collecting loot while we rez their corpses.

So the community became flooded with these types of players. Recruitment became difficult seeing as how gear no longer represented the type of raider. With the introduction of Ulduar hardmodes it became clear that Anvilmar was becoming ever more destitute in regards to talent. Many guilds crumbled at the realization of their own terribleness. Some guilds transferred away. Hundreds of potentially talented raiders transferred off to greener pastures. Our top guilds begun to crumble, slowly at first, until ICC...and then it was a tidal wave of destruction sweeping across Anvilmar.

Some guilds rose from the Cataclysm, brushed the dust off their pantaloons, and reformed. New and exciting 10 man guilds were formed. But it was never the same, because in the end what we were left with is much like the current economy. You have the 1% who aren't completely terrible, and then the other 99%.

People like you.

Not to mention, the lack of competitiveness, and drive from bigger guilds, due to the fact that a trade chat run could get a decent amount of bosses down, drove people away from the game. Which, in return caused what was left of what "we" know as anvilmar to quit. And so now, we're left with new players, and the little clique guilds that think they're hot !@#$ because they can kill nerfed boss. Thus diminishing the population of what was potentially a booming server.

I left because someone burned a cross on my front lawn

WOLK pretty much killed Anvilmar. With the re-introduction of Naxx, 10 man raiding and achievements, you had an influx of players who wanted to learn to raid. Well as it turns out, these players were terrible. Extremely terrible. This server back in vanilla and BC had some fairly competitive guilds who raided, and hell even being in the top 20 as far as raiding guilds wasn't terrible for the server.

This was due to the old raiding model. If you wanted to raid and see content you had to be dedicated to a point. Raiding 4 nights a week for 4 hours each night was considered casual. Spending weeks learning and practicing a single fight was the norm. Loot acquirement was slow and ultimately rewarding. You didn't expect to get a character completely geared out within a couple weeks.

Then bam, WOLK. You have Naxx which in it's WOLK form was probably the easiest tier of content to date. It had what...15 bosses total? If you weren't completely terrible clearing it within 2 nights was relatively easy, then you take the 10 people from your 25 man that didn't suck and clear it again the next night on 10m. Oh so many purples! So many achievements! SO MANY TERRIBLE PLAYERS AND TERRIBLE GUILDS.

Raiding less for more rewards became the new standard. For many long months people who had zero skill were suddenly the best geared on the server. All of a sudden terrible players were swelling with purple pride and bragging about their gear scores. Look at me! I die to the Heigan every week but I'm in all epics so that means I'm good! Oh look it's Thaddius, all of a sudden I don't know left from right! EVERY WEEK THE SAME TERRIBLE PEOPLE DYING, the same terrible people collecting loot while we rez their corpses.

So the community became flooded with these types of players. Recruitment became difficult seeing as how gear no longer represented the type of raider. With the introduction of Ulduar hardmodes it became clear that Anvilmar was becoming ever more destitute in regards to talent. Many guilds crumbled at the realization of their own terribleness. Some guilds transferred away. Hundreds of potentially talented raiders transferred off to greener pastures. Our top guilds begun to crumble, slowly at first, until ICC...and then it was a tidal wave of destruction sweeping across Anvilmar.

Some guilds rose from the Cataclysm, brushed the dust off their pantaloons, and reformed. New and exciting 10 man guilds were formed. But it was never the same, because in the end what we were left with is much like the current economy. You have the 1% who aren't completely terrible, and then the other 99%.

People like you.

too long didnt read

Actually, that is pretty much the whole truth and nothin but the truth, in fact. I have to give Patrix props there.

pretty much the whole truth and nothin but the truth

...no. There is definitely some truth in this, but it's difficult to believe that anyone who thinks this is the "whole truth" did much raiding back then.

1. The main thing is that people simply quit the game. In the last half of BC we were losing people every week to real life issues. WoW was very cool and many adults spent too much time playing it. After a while, the thrill of new boss kills just wasn't enough compensation to put up with a**hats like Patrix, especially with the demands of job and family.

2. There were always bad players -- if anything there were many fewer during Wrath.

3. The truth mentioned above is that the game became much more forgiving of bad play with easy heroics and raid bosses.

4. Blizz lifted attunements and began providing full gear sets with easily obtained currency. This rendered any sort of raid progression irrelevant. Why raid Ulduar when ToC was easier and provided better loot? Removing the heroic keys was a disaster. Attunements were a pain for raiding guilds, but at least you knew that everyone had done some end game content prior to raiding or running heroics.

5. The cross-realm LFG tool completely destroyed any sense of server community. The daily heroic was the single most important tool for finding new raid talent for most guilds. Back in the day, you would pug 1 - 2 spots and then invite those players to a raid if they did well. As the population fell, Blizz really had no choice but to implement a LFG tool for the lower level stuff at least -- it became almost impossible for new players to run instances like BFD, Mara, or Zul'farrak.

Bottom line: much of the player base simply burned out spending 20 hours a week playing a computer game. Players are not worse now, there are just many fewer of them and the bad ones stand out more.

01/14/2012 12:30 AMPosted by Cruzzlee

pretty much the whole truth and nothin but the truth

...no. There is definitely some truth in this, but it's difficult to believe that anyone who thinks this is the "whole truth" did much raiding back then.

1. The main thing is that people simply quit the game. In the last half of BC we were losing people every week to real life issues. WoW was very cool and many adults spent too much time playing it. After a while, the thrill of new boss kills just wasn't enough compensation to put up with a**hats like Patrix, especially with the demands of job and family.

2. There were always bad players -- if anything there were many fewer during Wrath.

3. The truth mentioned above is that the game became much more forgiving of bad play with easy heroics and raid bosses.

4. Blizz lifted attunements and began providing full gear sets with easily obtained currency. This rendered any sort of raid progression irrelevant. Why raid Ulduar when ToC was easier and provided better loot? Removing the heroic keys was a disaster. Attunements were a pain for raiding guilds, but at least you knew that everyone had done some end game content prior to raiding or running heroics.

5. The cross-realm LFG tool completely destroyed any sense of server community. The daily heroic was the single most important tool for finding new raid talent for most guilds. Back in the day, you would pug 1 - 2 spots and then invite those players to a raid if they did well. As the population fell, Blizz really had no choice but to implement a LFG tool for the lower level stuff at least -- it became almost impossible for new players to run instances like BFD, Mara, or Zul'farrak.

Bottom line: much of the player base simply burned out spending 20 hours a week playing a computer game. Players are not worse now, there are just many fewer of them and the bad ones stand out more.

The player base INCREASED dramatically from BC to WOLK so that completely disproves almost your entire theory of there being fewer players. It's just wrong. WoW subscriptions jumped up to 11 million during the course of WOLK.

LFG cross realms was one of the few intelligent things blizz has done. Players who would otherwise NEVER be able to find a group for said low instances were now able to find them. LFG didn't have a drop in difficulty, instances were the exact same until Cataclysm. So that theory goes out the window as well. It opened up the MMO aspects of the game along with ability to learn mechanics across the entire game. Although I will agree to the loss of realm reliability when it came to pugging.

As to there being less "bad" players during WOLK...you're simply insane. This itself outs you as a person who has not raided at all. Period. I'm not claiming I was a good player in WOLk (although I was definitely better than some, bleh boo WOLK players!) and admittedly I wasn't that good in BC either. I was absolutely terrible in Vanilla WoW.

Fact is there were MORE players in WOLK than in BC, so logic dictates there were more bad players in WOLK.

Other than the removal of attunements, the entirety of your post is drivel. If you had even tried any of the raids at content you would know that. Which leads me to believe you're simply a terrible player, who's been a terrible player for years, hiding behind your low level character due to embarrassment while exhibiting the need for recognition.

Also for the record I've always been a casual player and raider. To try and use the excuse of real life against being able to out progress or being terrible is ridiculous.

TL;DR Patrix is carried by Tec

01/18/2012 09:56 AMPosted by Wolfbiker

TL;DR Patrix is carried by Tec

my shoulders, they hurt

Don't confuse subscribers with active players. Many, if not most, of the people who stopped raiding kept their accounts and many still log in occasionally -- even to this day.

I'm not claiming I was a good player in WOLk (although I was definitely better than some, bleh boo WOLK players!) and admittedly I wasn't that good in BC either.

And that is OK, but I think you lack perspective -- not everyone was bad in BC or vanilla. In fact, there were many good players and many good raid teams. There was also a tremendous amount effort spent reminding people not to stand in the fire, that rogues don't stack strength, that auto-running into the boss room is generally a bad idea, that mages can sheep, that paladins can buff...

With regard to posting on alts, you have it backward -- never post on your main except for guild recruitment or similar business. It's foolish to do otherwise considering the content of these forums, i.e. ad hominem attacks and childish shout-outs. But I can understand where you're coming from: read some post that seemed impressive to you, then repeat it to display your wisdom and experience. "Hide behind an alt" is a good example, but also "screen shot or it didn't happen" or "you apply to guilds, guilds don't apply to you".

Basically, it's not that there are more bad players, it's that there are fewer good players. Anyway, it's a moot point now since WoW is in its death throes (I actually stopped by hoping to see which SW:ToR server people were rolling on when I saw the original post).

Don't confuse subscribers with active players. Many, if not most, of the people who stopped raiding kept their accounts and many still log in occasionally -- even to this day.

I'm not claiming I was a good player in WOLk (although I was definitely better than some, bleh boo WOLK players!) and admittedly I wasn't that good in BC either.

And that is OK, but I think you lack perspective -- not everyone was bad in BC or vanilla. In fact, there were many good players and many good raid teams. There was also a tremendous amount effort spent reminding people not to stand in the fire, that rogues don't stack strength, that auto-running into the boss room is generally a bad idea, that mages can sheep, that paladins can buff...

With regard to posting on alts, you have it backward -- never post on your main except for guild recruitment or similar business. It's foolish to do otherwise considering the content of these forums, i.e. ad hominem attacks and childish shout-outs. But I can understand where you're coming from: read some post that seemed impressive to you, then repeat it to display your wisdom and experience. "Hide behind an alt" is a good example, but also "screen shot or it didn't happen" or "you apply to guilds, guilds don't apply to you".

Basically, it's not that there are more bad players, it's that there are fewer good players. Anyway, it's a moot point now since WoW is in its death throes (I actually stopped by hoping to see which SW:ToR server people were rolling on when I saw the original post).

There were less players period in Vanilla and BC. By millions of people. Subscriptions or not, you can't just write off a 5 million jump in player base. You're saying I'm the one that lacks perspective? The player base almost doubles, but somehow we have less good players in the last 4 years. You know, those years that raiding became extremely competitive, especially which the introduction of hard modes. Oh but those don't count...Yogg+0 pales in comparison to BC difficulty I'm sure.

Also many mechanics can be seen these days as being far more intricate than in Vanilla or BC. There were MAYBE three mechanics per boss in a Vanilla raid. Kite the boss to this. Kill adds. Don't stand in that. Oh and make sure you have about 20 battle rez's. You look at some of the BC bosses, while many of them seemed difficult (and some were mechanic wise, Leo and Lady Vash in SSC, Kael was ridiculous in TK, and all of Sunwell was over tuned for the most part), the majority were...stand there and dps for 60 seconds, run some place else, dps some more. Gruuls, Lootreaver, almost all of Hyjal, almost all of Kara. People weren't better in BC, the line was just far clearer between who was capable of raiding and who wasn't. There weren't more capable players then, there were just less people raiding period.

Lets also get to the whole mindset of people like you who might have been relevant 4+ years ago are still somehow relevant. You're not. Which is why you're hiding behind an alt, not any of that other BS you're peddling to try and justify being too embarrassed to show people who you are. Especially on Anvilmar where recruitment is mostly a joke in the first place. You might have known limited success at some point during Vanilla or BC, but that's history. No one cares. You're just another person with absolutely zero credibility. You remind me of the people who lament the days of shockadins and shaman tanks. Get over it and get over yourself. Also get over the WoW is dead rhetoric, the player base hasn't taken that substantial of a hit, and people are still going to throw handfuls of money at blizz to play fat rolling pandas in China. You're nothing but a cliche.

I miss the days of defending xroads with Swampy, Mateusz, and Darthmal. Out of the blue occupying ally towns. Standing at Kara with the rest of the server on Tuesday nights. Fun pvp there. The 30-45 minute que to log on... oh wait I don't miss that, but it has been awhile since anvilmar days.

WOLK pretty much killed Anvilmar. With the re-introduction of Naxx, 10 man raiding and achievements, you had an influx of players who wanted to learn to raid. Well as it turns out, these players were terrible. Extremely terrible. This server back in vanilla and BC had some fairly competitive guilds who raided, and hell even being in the top 20 as far as raiding guilds wasn't terrible for the server.

This was due to the old raiding model. If you wanted to raid and see content you had to be dedicated to a point. Raiding 4 nights a week for 4 hours each night was considered casual. Spending weeks learning and practicing a single fight was the norm. Loot acquirement was slow and ultimately rewarding. You didn't expect to get a character completely geared out within a couple weeks.

Then bam, WOLK. You have Naxx which in it's WOLK form was probably the easiest tier of content to date. It had what...15 bosses total? If you weren't completely terrible clearing it within 2 nights was relatively easy, then you take the 10 people from your 25 man that didn't suck and clear it again the next night on 10m. Oh so many purples! So many achievements! SO MANY TERRIBLE PLAYERS AND TERRIBLE GUILDS.

Raiding less for more rewards became the new standard. For many long months people who had zero skill were suddenly the best geared on the server. All of a sudden terrible players were swelling with purple pride and bragging about their gear scores. Look at me! I die to the Heigan every week but I'm in all epics so that means I'm good! Oh look it's Thaddius, all of a sudden I don't know left from right! EVERY WEEK THE SAME TERRIBLE PEOPLE DYING, the same terrible people collecting loot while we rez their corpses.

So the community became flooded with these types of players. Recruitment became difficult seeing as how gear no longer represented the type of raider. With the introduction of Ulduar hardmodes it became clear that Anvilmar was becoming ever more destitute in regards to talent. Many guilds crumbled at the realization of their own terribleness. Some guilds transferred away. Hundreds of potentially talented raiders transferred off to greener pastures. Our top guilds begun to crumble, slowly at first, until ICC...and then it was a tidal wave of destruction sweeping across Anvilmar.

Some guilds rose from the Cataclysm, brushed the dust off their pantaloons, and reformed. New and exciting 10 man guilds were formed. But it was never the same, because in the end what we were left with is much like the current economy. You have the 1% who aren't completely terrible, and then the other 99%.

People like you.

/like

you're the man ivvi!

hows it going brah

I for one, miss wotlk!
And also, I don't know practically anyone from Anvilmar anymore ;_;~