LFR loot exploit is so bad. Free Tier for all

100 Tauren Paladin
10030
12/02/2011 11:48 AMPosted by Øtaku
Who else thinks the bans will only last UNTIL Tuesday?


i dont think the bans should START until tuesday

if they started today, a 72h ban would last untill sunday.


Oh, I agree. I actually think they should be banned the entirety of the first Heroic raid week, Tuesday to Tuesday. That would send a clear cut message.
90 Human Warrior
12540
@Charsi
Random question, since I haven't so much as stepped into a raid yet, LFR or otherwise...

What happens if you dont loot anything / pass on everything in LFR?


Read this, and just about choked. Haven't stepped into a raid yet?

Then I realized you probably meant "haven't stepped into a 4.3 raid yet."
Edited by Rolas on 12/2/2011 11:54 AM PST
12/02/2011 11:47 AMPosted by Sarnox
I'm calling clever use of game mechanics on this one, but... still is wrong.
.. like using the Freya trash to kill hodir? (exploit used in Ulduar to get world first hodir.)

or getting your healer into the brain room for last phase of Yogg so the adds never bothered the raid and evade bugged out which meant you simply finished off the boss.. (Exploit used in world first Yogg no light.... they got a temp ban because of the guild that did the hodir exploit Q_Q ing to blizzard... the temp banned guild lost their achieve as well.)
100 Human Priest
17435
If you are getting loot off of a boss twice then it is an exploit. This has always been the case in World of Warcraft, and we expect players to know better.

We’re in the process of implementing a hotfix to fix the exploit, and are deciding what steps we'll be taking for the gear that was already obtained.
Wow, I was sure this was "working as intended." I'm surprised this didn't come up during testing; when I heard about the lockout my first thought was "I wonder if they'll still let you trade loot to people who aren't eligible to roll." Maybe I just have a naturally devious mind...
100 Human Paladin
15890
The point of the exploit was that you could literally gear up anyone/everyone in the guild with 4 piece set bonuses if it was worth it.

The tank set bonuses this tier are probably the most essential.

Connect the dots.


Maybe the person still wearing the 4 piece didnt get the memo to wear old gear and hide it like everyone else possibly could have?

But I'd still like to know why you'd run LFR 20+ times, other than set pieces.
90 Tauren Death Knight
15505
We posted this on MMO as well, but it's good to make sure people understand:

Just to update people, no one in Blood Legion exploited anything in LFR or any other aspect of game. We have spent all week doing the instance with 6 different alt groups on 25m normal mode (check armory feeds). The confusion from Yapi's post is nothing more than incompetence and ignorance in wording.

Not every 'top' guild exploited this LFR mechanic. I know of several that have, and several that haven't. In the end, bans are irrelevent, and no one wants to see the competition be removed. As long as the gear that was obtained through exploiting the LFR is removed, I think everyone will be satisfied. I'm just glad to see Blizz do something about it and it not penalize guilds who 'do the right thing' (ala Atramedes exploit during t11).

Btw, If anyone wants to see the type of logistics that go into what we're doing, feel free to look at the planning we have had going for months:

http://i.imgur.com/LXX8t.png

Now let's just see how things play out this tier during heroics.


-Blood Legion
90 Undead Priest
8890


I disagree with rightfully. If you solo Kael'Thas and get the mount, by the same token it should be taken away from you as, "that's not how it's supposed to be done".
but that is a different thing entirely...

old content... soloed.. using the 'default' mechanics (start fight, move platforms, repeat.. kill bird so he rezzes.. kill the adds.. repeat till the boss is dead and loot drops.. gg see ya next week)

is not the same as 'kill the bird, pick up the loot without being saved, do it again... and again... and again.. in the same week till pheonix mount drops' which is what the LFR bug did... except it was loot not a mount.


The question is one of 'you CAN do it' versus 'you SHOULD do it'. Blizzard published the code and let it go live. How is this possible when it's been made public that the exploit was known and reported from PTR? It's a bit late to say the gate SHOULD have been closed when the horses are running away. The fact is that it isn't.

Banning when it's clearly the fault of Blizzard is a bit like saying the gate SHOULD have been closed.
90 Blood Elf Paladin
11745
This is a total joke if they are not Banned.

85 Human Paladin
11570
12/02/2011 11:54 AMPosted by Taggthemage
I'm calling clever use of game mechanics on this one, but... still is wrong.
.. like using the Freya trash to kill hodir? (exploit used in Ulduar to get world first hodir.)


where's the exploit? mobs were within leash radius or they would've evaded. spell steal is a legit ability.

or getting your healer into the brain room for last phase of Yogg so the adds never bothered the raid and evade bugged out which meant you simply finished off the boss.. (Exploit used in world first Yogg no light.... they got a temp ban because of the guild that did the hodir exploit Q_Q ing to blizzard... the temp banned guild lost their achieve as well.)


this was an exploit indeed. and it was adressed as so.

p.s. how many people remember the archimonde doomfire exploits on the hill? they had to put an invisible wall for that one.
100 Human Paladin
15890
The question is one of 'you CAN do it' versus 'you SHOULD do it'. Blizzard published the code and let it go live. How is this possible when it's been made public that the exploit was known and reported from PTR? It's a bit late to say the gate SHOULD have been closed when the horses are running away. The fact is that it isn't.

Banning when it's clearly the fault of Blizzard is a bit like saying the gate SHOULD have been closed.


Because theres no such thing as human error and everything Blizzard releases is perfect right?

Please, bugs happen all the time.
100 Blood Elf Rogue
9750
As clever as this trick is... It is still against the rules. You can look for all the grey areas or call it what you want to, but the blue post says it all.

"If you get loot off the same boss more than once in a single week... It is against the rules."

Some players went ahead and did this anyway. Those players can / will / should have the gear stripped from them at the very least. If a player or group of players are smart enough to figure this out they should be more than smart enough to know that you shouldn't do it.
Make an example out of these cheaters and ban them all. Show the top level guilds IT IS NOT OKAY to use these obvious exploits that were clearly not intended to further themselves somehow. Enough of these guilds exploiting some thing or another every freaking content patch to "win the race."


Make an example for future content patches (and expansions) that using these exploits WILL result in a permanent ban. No more double standards that make these top raiding guilds think they can get away with using whatever exploit they deem "necessary" to compete in the race to world first boss kills.


In your first paragraph, you want a double standard because they are a top level guild. Then in your second paragraph you want the double standards to end.

The WoW community would be better off if all these whiners calling for bans would be banned.


I want no double standard, I want blizzard to ban ANY and ALL using exploits to further their characters, be it a top level raider or a new person to the game.
90 Undead Warlock
9255
We posted this on MMO as well, but it's good to make sure people understand:

Just to update people, no one in Blood Legion exploited anything in LFR or any other aspect of game. We have spent all week doing the instance with 6 different alt groups on 25m normal mode (check armory feeds). The confusion from Yapi's post is nothing more than incompetence and ignorance in wording.

Not every 'top' guild exploited this LFR mechanic. I know of several that have, and several that haven't. In the end, bans are irrelevent, and no one wants to see the competition be removed. As long as the gear that was obtained through exploiting the LFR is removed, I think everyone will be satisfied. I'm just glad to see Blizz do something about it and it not penalize guilds who 'do the right thing' (ala Atramedes exploit during t11).

Btw, If anyone wants to see the type of logistics that go into what we're doing, feel free to look at the planning we have had going for months:

http://i.imgur.com/LXX8t.png

Now let's just see how things play out this tier during heroics.


-Blood Legion


Good luck in the race to Heroic World First.

That said, I don't think a simple gear-stripping is sufficient punishment for this sort of systematic exploitation.

I think it's time that even the high-end guilds learn to respect the rules of the game.
12/02/2011 11:55 AMPosted by Cylthia
Wow, I was sure this was "working as intended." I'm surprised this didn't come up during testing; when I heard about the lockout my first thought was "I wonder if they'll still let you trade loot to people who aren't eligible to roll." Maybe I just have a naturally devious mind...


Someone make a macro to post that the exploit had nothing to do with trading gear. It was a blatant exploit of of a flaw in the LFR loot distribution programming. People who should have been locked out for gear were able to get it directly anyway.
Edited by Puddinpop on 12/2/2011 12:02 PM PST
85 Draenei Hunter
10335

Btw, If anyone wants to see the type of logistics that go into what we're doing, feel free to look at the planning we have had going for months:

http://i.imgur.com/LXX8t.png

-Blood Legion


Now I want to see those other worksheets :o
90 Undead Priest
8890
The question is one of 'you CAN do it' versus 'you SHOULD do it'. Blizzard published the code and let it go live. How is this possible when it's been made public that the exploit was known and reported from PTR? It's a bit late to say the gate SHOULD have been closed when the horses are running away. The fact is that it isn't.

Banning when it's clearly the fault of Blizzard is a bit like saying the gate SHOULD have been closed.


Because theres no such thing as human error and everything Blizzard releases is perfect right?

Please, bugs happen all the time.


Agreed. And when they do......man up as a company and say, "Whups." They have to know by now that anything that CAN be done in game will be done. Especially when it was reported and not fixed.

That's a choice, not a bug.
90 Undead Warlock
9255
but that is a different thing entirely...

old content... soloed.. using the 'default' mechanics (start fight, move platforms, repeat.. kill bird so he rezzes.. kill the adds.. repeat till the boss is dead and loot drops.. gg see ya next week)

is not the same as 'kill the bird, pick up the loot without being saved, do it again... and again... and again.. in the same week till pheonix mount drops' which is what the LFR bug did... except it was loot not a mount.


The question is one of 'you CAN do it' versus 'you SHOULD do it'. Blizzard published the code and let it go live. How is this possible when it's been made public that the exploit was known and reported from PTR? It's a bit late to say the gate SHOULD have been closed when the horses are running away. The fact is that it isn't.

Banning when it's clearly the fault of Blizzard is a bit like saying the gate SHOULD have been closed.


The rules state very clearly that taking advantage of a bug or glitch is grounds for a banning. It doesn't matter if it went live or not. You, the player, taking advantage of a bug or glitch is still a violation of the ToU and need to be treated as such, regardless as to who the player is, or what guild tag they're wearing.
85 Orc Death Knight
9745
The point of the exploit was that you could literally gear up anyone/everyone in the guild with 4 piece set bonuses if it was worth it.

The tank set bonuses this tier are probably the most essential.

Connect the dots.


Maybe the person still wearing the 4 piece didnt get the memo to wear old gear and hide it like everyone else possibly could have?

But I'd still like to know why you'd run LFR 20+ times, other than set pieces.


22 alts, 3 mains on the first run. I'd be willing to bet said person was one of the first 3 to bring their main. After one run through you can still continue tanking subsequent runs while rotating in 3 new mains each time.

Really, this isn't hard.
Edited by Denik on 12/2/2011 12:02 PM PST
85 Tauren Paladin
730
As I understand it, Vodka and BL and a few other guilds used a system of having a ton of geared alts(22 of them to be exact), with 3 core members who didn't share Tier token availability.

This ensured that when Tier tokens dropped, there'd be no competition for the three Core raiders. The alts just hit Pass instead of rolling for the gear.

This is a smart use of LFR.

What Paragon and others did was to run LFR with the core players 16-24 times and bug the system using various methods to make those core raiders eligible for the gear off of the same boss over and again.

This is an exploit.


Its still not fair either way. I am sure Blizzard did not design LFR with the mindset top guilds would make a run around the mechanics of the system.

What Paragon and them did was probably more serious by vodka and Blood Legion are no exception. They went around the rules.
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