LFR loot exploit is so bad. Free Tier for all

85 Orc Mage
11500
http://eu.battle.net/wow/en/character/lightnings-blade/Baltha/simple


Guy already has full raid finder set, lawl.
85 Orc Shaman
12795
Permanently banning would be a significant loss to the community in regards to the research, theorycrafting, and assets players in these guilds produce.

I also think it overpenalizes players in a guild, who may have participated out of coersion from guild leaders/officers. Nonetheless, each player particpating is in fact guilty. More severe punishment should likely be given to leaders and officers.

Penalties should be consistent with what's necessary to send a message that guilds should be informing Blizzard of PTR bugs that can be exploited, rather than exploiting them. A permanent ban isn't necessary to accomplish that goal, and a 72 hour ban would be insufficient.


I agree with what you said.
Remove the gear they farmed from LFR, and give them a 1 week ban, starting Tuesday, so they're a full week behind.
Funny, I'd say the fact that their tank has 20+ lfr kills and only one piece of his 384 Tier set would indicate that they aren't exploiting.

But then again I'm not an idiot.


Perhaps he was gearing up other members of his guild?

Guilds like that are known for not being selfish and giving gear to others first.


If you were gearing people up like that, getting tank 4pcs that provide extra raidwide cooldowns is what people would do first first - the other 4pcs don't really compare in utility.
85 Orc Mage
11500
http://eu.battle.net/wow/en/character/lightnings-blade/Diivil/simple

http://eu.battle.net/wow/en/character/lightnings-blade/Xodan/simple
Edited by Education on 12/2/2011 12:06 PM PST
1 Goblin Hunter
0
Mob, I will explain how LFR loot works and how we acquired this much gear.

We run LFR with 22 alts and 3 core members. The three core members are on a different tier token. You run the instance once. You get the items from that then we swap in another 3, and so on.

It was pure luck that I received 4 pieces of tier. There was one other members who also received 4 piece out of 40 members.



Grats if you didn't exploit.

However, if you did then I find it amusing that you come on the forums and blatantly lie with the amount of good reputation your guild has. Some of your guildies and/or main raiders received LFR loot then LFR achievement and after all that received more loot from LFR hours later...

This could be a glitch, otherwise, I'm happy for you guys.
90 Undead Warlock
9255
As I understand it, Vodka and BL and a few other guilds used a system of having a ton of geared alts(22 of them to be exact), with 3 core members who didn't share Tier token availability.

This ensured that when Tier tokens dropped, there'd be no competition for the three Core raiders. The alts just hit Pass instead of rolling for the gear.

This is a smart use of LFR.

What Paragon and others did was to run LFR with the core players 16-24 times and bug the system using various methods to make those core raiders eligible for the gear off of the same boss over and again.

This is an exploit.


Its still not fair either way. I am sure Blizzard did not design LFR with the mindset top guilds would make a run around the mechanics of the system.

What Paragon and them did was probably more serious by vodka and Blood Legion are no exception. They went around the rules.


You're not getting what I'm saying. Vodka and BL and other guilds only ran their Core Raiders through LFR only once with their guild. They just ensured that their Core raiders had no competition for the Tier tokens.

Paragon and other guilds glitched the system so that they were repeatedly eligible for loot drops from the same 4/4 bosses over 20+ times on their Core raiding team.
16 Dwarf Hunter
0
Maybe we can bump this with all 25 of Paragon's raiders.

Then we can do Method's as well?

Dear Blizzard, why is this topic still open?!
85 Human Rogue
10475
We posted this on MMO as well, but it's good to make sure people understand:

Just to update people, no one in Blood Legion exploited anything in LFR or any other aspect of game. We have spent all week doing the instance with 6 different alt groups on 25m normal mode (check armory feeds). The confusion from Yapi's post is nothing more than incompetence and ignorance in wording.

Not every 'top' guild exploited this LFR mechanic. I know of several that have, and several that haven't. In the end, bans are irrelevent, and no one wants to see the competition be removed. As long as the gear that was obtained through exploiting the LFR is removed, I think everyone will be satisfied. I'm just glad to see Blizz do something about it and it not penalize guilds who 'do the right thing' (ala Atramedes exploit during t11).

Btw, If anyone wants to see the type of logistics that go into what we're doing, feel free to look at the planning we have had going for months:

http://i.imgur.com/LXX8t.png

Now let's just see how things play out this tier during heroics.


-Blood Legion


I am sure that took a !@#$ ton of planning Charles, and the logistics just nuts.

I am quite aware that you guys didn't do it, but It doesn't make it okay that other guilds did do it. I am all for competition, I don't think removing just the gear is enough. This bug was known on the PTR and they never reported it. They intentionally exploited it to gain an unfair advantage over other guilds in the race to World First/US First kills.

Going with Blizzard's stance on exploitation:

Bug Exploitation

We have a top notch Quality Assurance team who tirelessly stamp out bugs and design inconsistencies within World of Warcraft. However, a handful of trained professionals can never isolate and resolve each and every bug in such a deep and complex game accessed simultaneously by thousands of players. You may come across the occasional bug during your adventures. Some bugs are minor and do not affect gameplay, but sometimes these bugs can be used to provide an unfair advantage to certain players or affect the service itself. Factors included in determining the appropriate penalty:

Whether or not the exploit is performed intentionally, maliciously, and/or repeatedly
Whether or not the exploit damages another character, their gameplay, the service itself and/or its economy
Whether or not an attempt has been made to conceal the exploit's use

If a player is found to have abused/distributed an exploit, he/she may:

Be given a verbal warning if exploitation is unintentional and no attempt has been made to hide its occurrence
Be temporarily suspended from the game
In extreme cases the account will be closed outright

Bug exploitation that we consider extreme includes, but is not limited to:

Any exploit that has a severe negative impact on a realm's economy
Causing disruption in service or intentionally crashing a realm/server

While these repercussions may seem harsh, we feel very strongly that this type of abuse has no place within Azeroth due to its negative effect on other players or the service itself.

---------------------

This would classify as a non extreme case, but also more than a unintentional occurrence.
Every party member involved should be temporarily suspended from the game.


Exodus got banned for the exploit on Yogg+0, Ensidia got banned for the exploit on Heroic LK. This is no different, it's the same type of exploit. They all should get 3 day bans at minimum, and the repeat offenders of breaking Blizzard rules should get perma bans.

Its still not fair either way. I am sure Blizzard did not design LFR with the mindset top guilds would make a run around the mechanics of the system.

What Paragon and them did was probably more serious by vodka and Blood Legion are no exception. They went around the rules.


They didn't go around the rules. If you got really lucky and queued for LFR at the end of the week and just so happened to get in a group with 24 bored people who had already done it, you would get ALL the gear that happened to drop for your class. You could lucky and get multiple items off of every boss, or you could still get nothing.

(this is why I only do LFR late in the week from now until nothing in there is useful)

Vodka just engineered this to happen for each of its core raiders. It may be somewhat against the spirit of LFR, but each player still only got a chance at loot from each boss once. They definitely should not be punished or lumped in with the same people who clearly exploited and were able to loot the same boss as many times as they wanted.
90 Undead Warrior
15325
We posted this on MMO as well, but it's good to make sure people understand:

Just to update people, no one in Blood Legion exploited anything in LFR or any other aspect of game. We have spent all week doing the instance with 6 different alt groups on 25m normal mode (check armory feeds). The confusion from Yapi's post is nothing more than incompetence and ignorance in wording.

Not every 'top' guild exploited this LFR mechanic. I know of several that have, and several that haven't. In the end, bans are irrelevent, and no one wants to see the competition be removed. As long as the gear that was obtained through exploiting the LFR is removed, I think everyone will be satisfied. I'm just glad to see Blizz do something about it and it not penalize guilds who 'do the right thing' (ala Atramedes exploit during t11).

Btw, If anyone wants to see the type of logistics that go into what we're doing, feel free to look at the planning we have had going for months:

http://i.imgur.com/LXX8t.png

Now let's just see how things play out this tier during heroics.


-Blood Legion


Bumping to keep curing the ignorance. Best of luck to your guild this tier.
85 Tauren Paladin
730


Its still not fair either way. I am sure Blizzard did not design LFR with the mindset top guilds would make a run around the mechanics of the system.

What Paragon and them did was probably more serious by vodka and Blood Legion are no exception. They went around the rules.


You're not getting what I'm saying. Vodka and BL and other guilds only ran their Core Raiders through LFR only once with their guild. They just ensured that their Core raiders had no competition for the Tier tokens.

Paragon and other guilds glitched the system so that they were repeatedly eligible for loot drops from the same 4/4 bosses over 20+ times on their Core raiding team.


I understand where you are coming from, but Blood Legion and vodka are not exactly innocent.

What they did was another type of exploitation. Not as serious as Paragon and the others, but they beat the system.

Blizzard, I am sure did not intend to have full 4 Sets LFR Gear within the first 2 days.

I believe they should be punished too.



The question is one of 'you CAN do it' versus 'you SHOULD do it'. Blizzard published the code and let it go live. How is this possible when it's been made public that the exploit was known and reported from PTR? It's a bit late to say the gate SHOULD have been closed when the horses are running away. The fact is that it isn't.

Banning when it's clearly the fault of Blizzard is a bit like saying the gate SHOULD have been closed.


The rules state very clearly that taking advantage of a bug or glitch is grounds for a banning. It doesn't matter if it went live or not. You, the player, taking advantage of a bug or glitch is still a violation of the ToU and need to be treated as such, regardless as to who the player is, or what guild tag they're wearing.


The rules say nothing of the sort. Stop making things up to push your opinion. A ban is only considered for the worst offenders. This is nothing close to what Blizzard has banned for in the past.
Edited by Riddlur on 12/2/2011 12:12 PM PST
85 Orc Death Knight
9745
12/02/2011 12:09 PMPosted by Bullgates
What they did was another type of exploitation.


No, it really isn't.
45 Goblin Warlock
170
12/02/2011 12:09 PMPosted by Bullgates
What they did was another type of exploitation. Not as serious as Paragon and the others, but they beat the system.

No, it absolutely was not.
90 Undead Warlock
9255
Its still not fair either way. I am sure Blizzard did not design LFR with the mindset top guilds would make a run around the mechanics of the system.

What Paragon and them did was probably more serious by vodka and Blood Legion are no exception. They went around the rules.


They didn't go around the rules. If you got really lucky and queued for LFR at the end of the week and just so happened to get in a group with 24 bored people who had already done it, you would get ALL the gear that happened to drop for your class. You could lucky and get multiple items off of every boss, or you could still get nothing.

(this is why I only do LFR late in the week from now until nothing in there is useful)

Vodka just engineered this to happen for each of its core raiders. It may be somewhat against the spirit of LFR, but each player still only got a chance at loot from each boss once. They definitely should not be punished or lumped in with the same people who clearly exploited and were able to loot the same boss as many times as they wanted.


Agreed, I did LFR on my priest and got lucky and landed both a hand Token and a nice non-Tier set of shoulders. Multiple drops 'can' be had without glitching the system, if you're plain lucky or you stack your raid appropriately.

They worked 'within' the rules, so I have no problem with what they did. Paragon and the others, on the other hand, need a good solid week's vacation starting on Tuesday Morning to ensure that they learn their lesson about cheating.
16 Dwarf Hunter
0
12/02/2011 12:09 PMPosted by Denik
No, it really isn't.


Anyone choosing to play the game differently from the way *I* choose to play is clearly exploiting and should be banned.
85 Blood Elf Priest
1285
I understand where you are coming from, but Blood Legion and vodka are not exactly innocent.

What they did was another type of exploitation. Not as serious as Paragon and the others, but they beat the system.

Blizzard, I am sure did not intend to have full 4 Sets LFR Gear within the first 2 days.

I believe they should be punished too.


I think I agree with this.
85 Draenei Paladin
2225
12/02/2011 10:03 AMPosted by Bashiok
If you are getting loot off of a boss twice then it is an exploit. This has always been the case in World of Warcraft, and we expect players to know better.


I do agree with this. If I run an LFR raid, then re-run and find some way to loot a boss again, then i am exploiting the system.

however, if I run a raid once, but get everything I need passed to me, then i am not cheating.

Also, If I run a raid and loot a boss, then re-run it and another pally wins a token that he doesn't need so he "trades" it to me, then i also do not see a problem.

From what it sounds like, DREAM-Paragon are blatantly abusing the system and somehow having all 25 members be able to loot a boss over and over again. If they don't get banned, i'm sorry but I will lose all faith in Blizzards integrity. First Swifty, then Paragon? We all know that if it was any average players then their accounts would no longer exist. you can't sho favoritism Blizz.
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