LFR loot exploit is so bad. Free Tier for all

16 Dwarf Hunter
0
12/02/2011 12:37 PMPosted by Aleros
Those deepsea sagefish and murglesnout sure were game breaking, especially since they took them away from me.


You had Murglesnout? Blizzard why is this guy still in my game.
Edited by Zaustrian on 12/2/2011 12:40 PM PST
94 Orc Hunter
15930
Banning is dumb. This happened because hardcore raiding, especially at their level where it defines their existence as a guild is hyper-competitive. What were leadership supposed to do? Not do it and risk Blizzard doing nothing (as they have before), and then end up with a severe competitive disadvantage next week? Their guild leadership is effectively dammed if they do (by compromising their integrity) and dammed if they don't (by risking not having the same tools handy Tuesday as the competition).

More respect to Blood Legion then for making the risky, gutsy call to organize it in a superior logistical fashion that did not exploit. But it's really hard to place blame on the leadership of guilds that did this beyond the first. All they were doing was protecting themselves. They are wrong in what they did but they are right in that they did what they had to in order to not fall behind their peers.


Removing the loot and deleting the existence in the database of the LFR kills beyond the first is sufficent penalty enough.It's interesting the hordes of people going 'ban them' are the casual, LFR types, that are uniquely responsibile, in many ways, for the state of the game today. The only reason they want a ban is because it brings the game closer to their level. It's pure internet posturing and should be ignored.


Honestly this is Blizzards fault in two major ways. First, they have proven once again, that they do not rigorously test these systems that were implemented. This was undoubtedly figured out on PTR a month ago, and undoubtedly kept hush-hush, and I'm sure considering the contact that some of these guilds have with Blizzard, indeed the company was aware. They of course, did not move on it.

And secondly, with some silver lining to it, this only happened because Blizzard showed it was toothless in the past and much of what they say and do isn't taking seriously (really considering how Blizzcon/MoP went, what people say to blues now and how the game is so exploited, Blizzard is having a serious credibility crisis IMO). Well lesson learned, now they are. Guilds will think twice next time. The sting of getting slapped by a stick will be that sharp reminder.
Edited by Eref on 12/2/2011 12:44 PM PST


By most of the posters here you should have been perma-banned.


Those deepsea sagefish and murglesnout sure were game breaking, especially since they took them away from me.


That's true, but it's still the argument people are trying to make. You knew the rules, knew it was a bug and exploited it anyway. BAN, END OF THE WORLD, GAME-BREAKING EXPLOIT!! It's such a silly leap to make, but somehow people do it anyway.
100 Human Paladin
15860
Eh if Vodka and BL used clever game mechanics and not an actual explot, props to them then.

Guilds like this exist to find loopholes for an advantage

You would not be banned. You are being extremely obtuse and try to play the whole "99%" victim thing here. Let me say this one more time:

Vodka and BL rotate three NEW core members who have not seen LFR loot for the week and who are on different tier tokens. The rest of the raid is comprised of 22 alts. Once those three people have seen the bosses die, they hop on their alts and three NEW core people come in who have not seen loot for the week. The only people who get loot from these runs are the three people who have not seen loot drop for the week. This is NOT an exploit or a hack; it's smart.


This isnt as overly blatant as what Paragon did, but it is still exploitation. Tryin to mask it as a creative use of game mechanics is just tryin to hide the fact that they cheated the system.

The issue with what Vodka and BL did (if it is what they did) is that there isn't an easy way to fix the issue without screwin the system for people who are legitimately tryin to use the system how what it was intended to be use.


In this system, no character even ques for the raid more than once, let alon seeing the boss die twice. Fair game, although it does mean that 25 players have 4+ toons at 85 and geared for the raid and had to run the raid 9 times, once for every set of main toons.
Each toon only gets one shot at loot per boss.

Now the other guilds that are using the exploit to have multiple chances of loot from the same boss in different instances of the raid within the same lockout period, that's not cool.
85 Blood Elf Priest
1285
If someone uses a "loophole" to gain an advantage that wasn't intended by Blizzard, no doubt they will "deal with" that as well.
25 Troll Hunter
100
Four bosses, four tokens, four pieces of gear. Where's the exploit?
58 Blood Elf Death Knight
0
Trying to justify or defend or blame is not solving anything. Did they know what they where doing and was it to their advantage? YES Did it give them unfair advantage over others? YES
Bug or cleaver use of mechanics as many posting... etc. That fact is simple: Those doing it got caught and you sure know they all knew it was wrong.

It is no different than anything else in life. Those that did it knew it was wrong regardless of what excuses they make. They chose the path thinking they wouldn't get caught but they did and unless their 6yr old's they knew what they where doing was not right. Should there be actions taken by Blizz of course.

If they don't it shows they lost all integrity in the game. How harsh should the punishment be, it should be swift and prompt of course. It's not our call on what should be done. Those that set the guidelines and rules of the game should categorize it into the rule set they made and determine the rules it violates and take immediate action to what they have published for an offense of this nature. Regardless of who it is or isn't or guild their in.

70 Night Elf Druid
1435
And secondly, with some silver lining to it, this only happened because Blizzard showed it was toothless in the past and much of what they say and do isn't taking seriously.


so your answer is 'more of the same'? unless there's some actual 'penalty' beyond 'you cant keep stuff you got from exploiting' then what discourages them from doing this again

a week ban starting tuesday would at least put the fear of god into people in the future
90 Blood Elf Paladin
11745
So, if these guilds decided to start running bots now to get all the raid materials they need, that would be ok too?

The Banhammer is needed here guys.

90 Night Elf Druid
15810
Beta testing and PTR's are nothing more than time allowed for these guilds to find these "exploits" to use when the patch is released. They find them, do not report them and then use them. It is sad such great players stoop to this level for an advantage but I guess it follows the phrase "If you aren't cheating, you aren't trying."

2 Undead Mage
0
You would not be banned. You are being extremely obtuse and try to play the whole "99%" victim thing here. Let me say this one more time:

Vodka and BL rotate three NEW core members who have not seen LFR loot for the week and who are on different tier tokens. The rest of the raid is comprised of 22 alts. Once those three people have seen the bosses die, they hop on their alts and three NEW core people come in who have not seen loot for the week. The only people who get loot from these runs are the three people who have not seen loot drop for the week. This is NOT an exploit or a hack; it's smart.


This isnt as overly blatant as what Paragon did, but it is still exploitation. Tryin to mask it as a creative use of game mechanics is just tryin to hide the fact that they cheated the system.

The issue with what Vodka and BL did (if it is what they did) is that there isn't an easy way to fix the issue without screwin the system for people who are legitimately tryin to use the system how what it was intended to be use.

Calling that an "exploit" shows you're pretty clueless. It's the way the system was designed to work. Everyone knew this is how it would be the done the instant the details of this system were announced. There's nothing that's even unintended.

Right now, it doesn't matter much because it's just ilvl 384 gear, but it's going to be amusing in the early weeks of the next expansion when top guilds run LFR 20+ times in a few days to get everyone in full epic raid gear right off the bat.
Edited by Coneofcold on 12/2/2011 12:51 PM PST
So, if these guilds decided to start running bots now to get all the raid materials they need, that would be ok too?

The Banhammer is needed here guys.


Botting is completely different, and Blizzard thinks so as well.
85 Orc Death Knight
9745
If I'm reading Riggs post in this thread right, BL didn't even use the LFR framework to do this. They literally just cleared Normal mode 6 times utilizing alts and sprinkled their mains throughout each raid to soak up specific types of loot.

vodka did essentially the same thing, except the LFR framework (which has been known, and intended, since the system details were announced) allowed them to use fewer characters over all.
1 Gnome Rogue
0
12/02/2011 12:16 PMPosted by Freese
What they did was another type of exploitation. Not as serious as Paragon and the others, but they beat the system.


People, this is NOT hard to understand. Look at their damn spreadsheet. http://i.imgur.com/LXX8t.png

They rotate three NEW core members who have not seen LFR loot for the week and who are on different tier tokens. The rest of the raid is comprised of 22 alts. Once those three people have seen the bosses die, they hop on their alts and three NEW core people come in who have not seen loot for the week. The only people who get loot from these runs are the three people who have not seen loot drop for the week. This is NOT an exploit or a hack; it's smart.

You don't have to be a scientific rocket to understand this.


I'm confused by this. Armory ANYONE in Blood Legion -- they haven't even done LFR yet this week. What the spreadsheet looks like is they did 6 normal clears total, all on different characters.

If Blood Legion did what the spreadsheet is telling us they did, then that's pretty legit. 6 clears of Normal Dragon Soul in the first week to gear up their mains? That's pretty awesome.
Edited by Wðrgenfreman on 12/2/2011 12:57 PM PST
94 Orc Hunter
15930

It is no different than anything else in life.


Exactly, which is why your post makes no sense. And people lie, steal and cheat every hour of every day in life. People exploit each other, nevermind a video game, as matter of convenience. People compromise their integrity every day of the week to get ahead in life and protect themselves. That is the way of the world. It always has been.

It starts in 4th grade when you tell your friend that you use the internet to "help" on homework.
It continues on into high school when you cheat on a math test the first time by putting formulas in your TI-83.
It reaches its height in your professional career when you exaggerate your contributions at the expense of your partner in order to get a promotion.

The part that is comical to me about this is that there are folks here surprised that *gasp* such behavior goes on in World of Warcraft. Of course it does! There are people behind these characters with goals and interests and ambitions! This game is not some kind of Eden where everyone recites the Boy Scouts code of honor after imputing their authenticator code.
Edited by Eref on 12/2/2011 12:59 PM PST
90 Draenei Mage
0
If people are getting loot from different kills of the same boss on the same character or are selectively choosing which of the kills to take the drop from in a single raid week then that's clearly an exploit and should be dealt with

However

If guilds are organising multiple runs of LFR with only a few of their mains in each run and prioritising loot to mains over their alts and so long as characters are only receiving gear from the characters 1st kill of each of the bosses each lockout - then that's just smart (since although that'd benefit their mains, the trade-off is it disadvantages their alts).

100 Night Elf Warrior
13200
12/02/2011 12:46 PMPosted by Panazonik
Four bosses, four tokens, four pieces of gear. Where's the exploit?


The part where multiple players in your raid get all their tier in one night. Odds of that happening without exploiting? Never.
Edited by Sammonoske on 12/2/2011 1:00 PM PST
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