LFR loot exploit is so bad. Free Tier for all

12/02/2011 10:18 AMPosted by Hèlhèim
good idea deleting my 22 page post on the general discussion forums. you wouldn't want your paying subscriber base to know that you let top world guilds like DREAM Paragon, Method, Ensidia, For the Horde, Envy and Vodka - to name a few - get away with getting their entire 25m raids full 4/5 or 5/5 + off piece t13 sets 2 days after you released the patch, now would you?


Just FYI, the people that did this are already in the process of, or have already had, their gear they acquired removed. The guy linked on the first page of this thread with his activity log essentially proving the exploit (http://eu.battle.net/wow/en/character/lightnings-blade/Wakoz/simple) no longer has those pieces.
100 Night Elf Druid
8310
If you are getting loot off of a boss twice then it is an exploit. This has always been the case in World of Warcraft, and we expect players to know better.

We’re in the process of implementing a hotfix to fix the exploit, and are deciding what steps we'll be taking for the gear that was already obtained.


Can you comment on the notion that if everyone passes, the loot becomes "up for grabs" ?

your first statement is a little qustionable, because the case of running same raid twice never existed before...so in a sense we're dealing with a case that wasn't "always the case".



It is SPECIFICALLY stated in the patch notes that you can only loot a BOSS once a week when you run the LFR raid. These people have racked up 10, 15, 20 kills per boss in the LFR raid and got loot of each one of them.
If you are getting loot off of a boss twice then it is an exploit. This has always been the case in World of Warcraft, and we expect players to know better.

We’re in the process of implementing a hotfix to fix the exploit, and are deciding what steps we'll be taking for the gear that was already obtained.



it's calld a ban. Don't just slap some1 on the wrist an say bad boy! Just kill the acct.
85 Draenei Shaman
6785

Can you comment on the notion that if everyone passes, the loot becomes "up for grabs" ?

your first statement is a little qustionable, because the case of running same raid twice never existed before...so in a sense we're dealing with a case that wasn't "always the case".


I'm sorry, but no matter how it was done, the fact is, if you receive loot off a boss more than once per week, it's an exploit. It was stated that you would only be eligible for loot once per week per boss. So anyone who took advantage of this is knew they were exploiting and should be suspended for at least a week, as well as having ALL LFR loot taken away.
85 Human Paladin
11570
@Uenjoymyself: at the same time these guilds are the ones discovering and thus directly and indirectly displaying bugs, glitches and overall problems with the game.

while their gear doesn't affect you, the bugs that get fixed because of their actions affect everyone, you included.

If we're to keep it fair, it needs to be considered.

clarification: Not defending those guilds, just pointing out a detail.
Edited by Robokapp on 12/2/2011 10:23 AM PST
85 Orc Warlock
12080

You remember that one guy Karatechop from a guild you never heard of who got Martin's Fury back in Ulduar days? Used it to one-shot a single boss? His entire guild got banned. No compromises, buy a new account losers.

Paragon? Ah gee, you guys! hahahaha! Ok, you'll just have to use your 391 gear instead of the 384 gear! Have fun in heroics, man! :)

They should be stripped of all gear and forced to re-farm Firelands, or a minimum of 1 month ban, because a 3 day ban won't even phase them.


Exactly. A lesser guild cheats once, it's a lifetime ban. I top progression guild full of serial cheaters and exploiters? They get a slap on the wrist and keep on keeping on.
16 Dwarf Hunter
0
This was a blatant exploit; absolutely intentional and premeditated. It wasn't even borderline. If Saronite bombs is 72 hours, this is cleary a bigger offense. While it's unfortunate, but anything this beligerent that still lets guilds raid hardmodes on Tuesday doesn't have any teeth.

And if you think people were pidgeon holed into doing it because their competitors would, any one of these guilds could have spoken up and informed Blizzard of the concern. They made a different choice; which is directly related to their level of maturity.


It depends on the number of warnings, etc. This isn't hacking which is a perma-ban, most "creative use of game mechanics" go through the normal 24h->72h->Peace out process.
90 Tauren Druid
12100
If you are getting loot off of a boss twice then it is an exploit. This has always been the case in World of Warcraft, and we expect players to know better.

We’re in the process of implementing a hotfix to fix the exploit, and are deciding what steps we'll be taking for the gear that was already obtained.


they exploited. ban them. why are you "deciding" anything? there is a strong precident for this.

just because some of them are "top 100 world guilds" shouldnt matter.

they broke the rules.

do the right thing.

(if you really CANT ban them for publicity sake, strip the gear, disallow any gear refunds and somehow lock the LFR for those players for a period of time, to set them back the time they tried to cheat themselves ahead.)
85 Gnome Warlock
7225
NOW YOU GUYS TELL ME ABOUT THIS?, thx for keeping me in the know.
85 Orc Warlock
12080
If you are getting loot off of a boss twice then it is an exploit. This has always been the case in World of Warcraft, and we expect players to know better.

We’re in the process of implementing a hotfix to fix the exploit, and are deciding what steps we'll be taking for the gear that was already obtained.


they exploited. ban them. why are you "deciding" anything? there is a strong precident for this.

just because some of them are "top 100 world guilds" shouldnt matter.

they broke the rules.

do the right thing.

(if you really CANT ban them for publicity sake, strip the gear, disallow any gear refunds and somehow lock the LFR for those players for a period of time, to set them back the time they tried to cheat themselves ahead.)


Much like in the real world, the same rules don't apply to the 1%.
100 Dwarf Warrior
10790
another thing to point out from the hardcore perspective is that if you find out this is possible and know that other guilds are doing it then there is no way you can not participate and still expect to compete for a world first, so while i do agree that they should be stripped of any and all gear earned this way, for a top guild to just not do this when other were was not an option for them if they wanted a shot at world 1st weather or not they knew it to be an exploit. What they did was wrong and all gear they earned should be taken away at the least maybe even a suspension
85 Human Warlock
14965
Now all that has to be fixed is multiple staff siphoning
90 Undead Warlock
10280
lol @ bashiok.

8 hours behind the news cycle hmmm?

good idea deleting my 22 page post on the general discussion forums. you wouldn't want your paying subscriber base to know that you let top world guilds like DREAM Paragon, Method, Ensidia, For the Horde, Envy and Vodka - to name a few - get away with getting their entire 25m raids full 4/5 or 5/5 + off piece t13 sets 2 days after you released the patch, now would you?

i am amused at how terrible you are at this game...

so glad i sold my stock before the ship decided to hit the iceberg...



They aren't getting away with it and calling Bashiok and the devs terrible at this game? Seriously? Dude, stop being a troll.

Also, your thread was deleted for good reason.


not really, it was deleted because trolls like yourself would go in there and spam 4 pages asking for details of the exploit. and then say it's not an exploit, but clever use of mechanics. etc. etc.

all information i provided was perfectly valid.

http://www.paragon.fi/news/dragon-soul-raiding-progress-your-day-3-4-update

from paragon themselves, the darlings of bashiok and his brethren:

LFR what?

Yes, the LFR... Looking for Raid... a chance to join up with 24 of your friends/non-friends/acquaintances and clear some raid content on the Baradin Hold difficulty level. You might even get some loots for the trouble! So what happened and why have other popular MMO and WoW forum sites been abuzz with accusations of bugs, creative game mechanics, or exploits in relation to the LFR?

Well, evidently a combination of careful planning by the elite guilds to run LFRs (I did mention yesterday that LFR was factoring into strategies, but I had no idea what was going to happen over the course of the day at that point) and a game bug resulted in something unexpected. But this was something most of the top guilds followed as, like most things buggish during the early days of a new patch, sometimes it's not entirely clear what's a bug versus a new mechanic, what's a creative use of gameplay versus an exploit. I'm not suggesting that all the guilds unwittingly partook in an accidental series of LFRs that resulted in an accidental and magical appearance of available loot, but the way in which the guilds had laid out their plans appeared to expose an actual bug that just made the process less cumbersome than had been originally planned. Were these guys always planning to do a lot of LFRs? Oh yes. Had they expected it to be this easy? Oh no. Were they going to stop for the race because they weren't sure about a bug or no bug? Unlikely. And since it seemed like everyone else was doing it, were they pressured even more to keep doing it? Yes. Whether we like it or not, the race (and how we prepare for it) is often conducted in silos and we rely on hearsay or rumours to actually know what each other is doing. Should they have done it? Probably not, but it's easy for me to sit back and mull over grey areas of the game like this and decide what is or is not ok--these raiding guilds often have to make quick decisions based on what they know their competitors are already doing.

The bug that allowed this faster turnaround has been hotfixed, as I understand it, and while there are still a lot of contested debates out there about what was wrong or right and whether there should be further punitive action, we have yet to know if anything additional will be done. But if something does happen, keep in mind that I checked the top 10-15 guilds alone and found that the majority of them had conducted their LFR runs this way so we may see a different progress race or outcome if those guilds are penalised. And what about the many other guilds throughout the game that did the same thing? Shouldn't we penalise them as well?

I'll probably have more to say as the days continue, but for now, I'll leave it there. Again, keep in mind that these thoughts are my own and do not necessarily reflect what Paragon or its individual members might think.
100 Gnome Mage
19440
I'm not arguing the credibility of that MMO Champion post since this obviously a real issue, but I'm certain that the tier helm is available in LFR right now even though it's not on the dungeon journal loot table. I got mine in LFR on Tuesday, and I've heard that the unavailable tier pieces are just dropping randomly from bosses.

I haven't equipped it yet, though, as it won't be an up until I get another piece for the 2set.
85 Human Warlock
8245
This is one of the most blatant exploits I've ever seen by anyone trying to gain an edge. IMO a temp ban that doesn't lock them out of this week entirely as well as taking the gear away is too little. These are the smartest wow players in the world and somehow they didn't figure keeping themselves from getting locked to a boss loot in LFR wasn't wrong?
85 Orc Warrior
12080
12/02/2011 10:24 AMPosted by Viceverza
Now all that has to be fixed is multiple staff siphoning


I see what you did there...
85 Human Paladin
11570
Here's what I'm seeing...

While Raid Finder raids aren’t locked, players are only eligible to win loot from a boss once per week.


it's worded in a wonky way, because if everyone passes and then Xxxarthosxxx walks to the boss and loots it, that's not "winning", is it? that's plain looting.

edit: but point is moot. paragon wrote this:

and a game bug resulted in something unexpected.


exploit was done willingly. bring the hammer!
Edited by Robokapp on 12/2/2011 10:28 AM PST
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