Topic
(Sticky)
A Practical Guide to Holy PVE in 4.3
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Edited by Practical on 12/3/11 11:29 PM (PST)
***This is a work in progress. I have created this thread because the Holy Paladin theorycrafting guide is out of date and we should really try to keep one for new and veteran healers alike to reference to. Please have patience. Remember, constructive posting and feedback is always welcome. Cheers!***
Hi there, and this is your Practical Guide to Holy 4.3. This thread is with the intention of providing Paladins a reference to go to when trying out Holy for the first time, or for veterans who are looking to freshen up on their knowledge. I hope that you guys find this to be useful. If at any point and time you guys find any errors, let me know right away and I'll have a look at it. I will be using the format that Lylthe used to some degree (Post can be found here:http://us.battle.net/wow/en/forum/topic/1406258637#5). I chose this because I wanted those that read his post before go back to something that feels similar. I will be using some threads that he used, A LOT of his words (by quoting), because it saves time, and energy. I'm creating this thread to really give it an update, so just letting you guys know ahead of time. - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Table of Contents - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Acronyms Spell Selection - How to Heal - Cooldown Usage Spec and Glyphs - Spec - Prime Glyphs - Major Glyphs - Minor Glyphs Stat Analysis - Spell Statistics - Holy Radiance Stats Continued - Gemming/Enchanting/Reforging Et cetera - Raid Buffs - Consumables - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Acronyms: - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - [AW] - Avenging Wrath aka Wings (Ability) [BL] - Blessed Life (Talent) [DP] - Divine Plea (Ability) [DL] - Divine Light (Ability) [EG] - Eternal Glory (Talent) [EJ] - Enlightened Judgments (Talent) [JoTP] - Judgements of the Pure [FoL] - Flash of Light (Ability) [GoAK] - Guardian of Ancient Kings (Ability) [HL] - Holy Light (Ability) [HoF] - Hand of Freedom (Ability) [HoP] (sometimes BoP, used to be Blessing of Protection) - Hand of Protection (Ability) [HoSac] - Hand of Sacrifice (Ability) [HoSal] - Hand of Salvation (Ability) [HP] - Holy Power (Resource) [HS] - Holy Shock (Ability) [HR] Holy Radiance (Ability) [HPM] - Heals per mana [HPS] - Heals per second [IoL] - Infusion of Light (Talent) [LoD] - Light of Dawn (Ability) [LoH] - Lay on Hands (Ability/Talent) [Mp5] - Mana per 5 seconds [Mps] - mana per second [PotI] Protector of the Innocent (Talent) [SoI] - Seal of Insight (Ability) [SoL] - Speed of light (Talent) [ToR] - Tower of Radiance (Talent) [WoG] - Word of Glory (Ability) |
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Edited by Practical on 12/4/11 8:08 PM (PST)
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Spell Selection: - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - How to heal: TL;DR Version: -Beacon of Light should stay on your tank. Don't defer from that. -You now only have to judge once every minute thanks to the Enlightened Judgments change. -Holy shock on cooldown, if you can help it. -Always try to use your Holy Power. HP Not used is an overal decrease in HPS performance assuming that HS is off CD or you are directly healing your Beaconed target. Paladin healers heal like mage DPS. Don't forget this. -Use your cooldowns wisely, I'll go into detail for that a little. In 4.3 and and in Dragon Soul, you'll find more times than not that you'll be healing the raid a lot. Fights like Deathwing's Spine and Madness really allow you to utilize Beacon of Light to the fullest by spot healing the raid tons and using HR left and right, in conjunction with LoD. Judging has been changed, and so is our interaction with Spirit. We no longer Judge every 8 seconds, but once every 30 seconds - minute now. This is because Judgement of the Pure (http://www.wowhead.com/spell=53671) has been changed to give us 30% increased mana regen from Spirit while in combat. Think Holy Concentration. HL, DL, and FoL still play the same role they have been throughout this expansion, and to that extent have not changed. In my findings however on the PTR and live you will be using DL/FoL way more than you will be seeing HL. I believe that's the intent overall. Holy Shock is still delicious and with Daybreak/Infusion of Light you should always try to use it on cooldown. Holy Radiance: This spell has changed - drastically. Lets look at the tooltip first: Imbues a friendly target with radiant energy, healing that target and all allies within 10 yards for 2623 to 3205 and another 0 every 1 sec for 3 sec. Healing effectiveness diminishes for each player target beyond 6. If you're confused by this, it's a combination of Prayer of Healing and our old Holy Radiance. It heals up front, with a 3 second HoT (affected and increased by haste) after. The spell's overall throughput goes at about 66/33 (burst heal/hot), with Mastery affecting an even smaller portion of that - but don't let that fool you. Holy Radiance is very, very, very good. You will be using this spell a lot in Dragon Soul. (More information on the haste ticks below) In addition to Holy Radiance's change, you now earn one Holy Power every time you cast it, due to Tower of Radiance (http://www.wowhead.com/spell=85512). The intent behind this is so that Holy Radiance and Light of Dawn can have more synergy with each other and as such be a strong combo (think Healing Rain and Chain Heal). I want to clarify the one thing that people seem to get confused by this talent: You do not need to cast HR on the Beaconed target in order to gain HP from it. I repeat: You DO NOT need to cast HOLY RADIANCE on the BEACONED target to get HP from it. You do however, still need to cast DL/FoL on the Beaconed target in order to gain HP that way. |
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Edited by Practical on 12/6/11 6:05 AM (PST)
Cooldowns:
Avenging Wrath is delicious. Use it a few seconds before a tough situation comes down and cast away. I like to use it with Divine Favor and Holy Radiance. Just try it and see. GoTAK (affectionately called Angel Bro) copies your spell and does a splash heal of 10% of the heal to 5 people around the target (Hello Holy Light Glyph!). In my experiences, I do not use GoTAK for it's AE healing capabilities as much as I do to get 5 people up quickly. Divine Favor is a great spell overall. In my opinion it's best used with Holy Radiance, but it's just a spell that's great overall. It provides haste, it makes spells quicker and combined with BL it has devestating effects. Hand of Sacrifice is a wonderful tool that's mostly used on tanks. It reduces damage by 30% by transferring that 30% to you. You can use it with Engineer Bubble, or Divine Shield. It's great. Aura Mastery is a jack of all trades tool that can fit most in every fight. What it does: Take your current aura and make it 100% better. I mostly find myself using it with Resistance Aura, and if you do the math the amount of damage mitigated from it is jaw dropping. Lay on Hands, I don't need to get into this one, right? Don't use it with people that have forbearance on them. You'll be shocked to see that it won't work. :P Edit: Also, if glyphed, it returns 10% of your mana! Divine Plea is best used in transition phases. Such as jumping from platform to platform on Madness of Deathwing. It is affected by Intellect buffs such as Engineer Gloves and even the Int buff from Divine Hymn. You are also even able to use it with Potion of Concentration. Do not use any spells outside of HS and HL during Divine Plea. It will make healing and using the spell pointless. You want to conserve mana during the duration. Divine Protection is best used as a personal cooldown. I don't mean this in a show-off way but it essentially negates any elemental damage done to you, ESPECIALLY glyphed. |
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Edited by Practical on 12/8/11 12:12 PM (PST)
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Spec and Glyphs: - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - http://us.battle.net/wow/en/tool/talent-calculator#bc00!bPgZhWQQSW!jg!Yd!YgRjQkPKq Is the suggested talents and glyphs that you use. Glyphs such as Word of Glory and Divine Favor can be switched out easily for fights that need it. Glyph of Light of Dawn was recently changed to heal 2 fewer targets, but 25% more. I still use WoG/Insight/HS as Prime because I find that I use those the most. Major Glyphs: I chose Divine Prot, LoH and Divine Plea with Divine Prot being able to switch out. Not all fights have Magic damage (though some do), so often times I will switch it out for say, LoD or BoL. Lylthe's Opinion:
Source: http://us.battle.net/wow/en/forum/topic/1406258637#4
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Edited by Practical on 12/3/11 7:19 PM (PST)
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Stat Analysis - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - I'm going to quote Lylthe for this bit because I didn't feel like typing it all up, and I have more to add due to the new HR: Before I get into spell selection, here are the nitty gritty details about how spells generally work. In general, the amount you heal for is: Spell Statistics:
For the most part, the quoted above is correct. Nothing for our single target heals have changed. This remains to be true from the math I've seen and read. What's important, however, is the change to HR and how you interact with it. It can decide your gearing and gemming scheme for your character. |
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Edited by Practical on 12/21/11 1:47 PM (PST)
Holy Radiance in 4.3/Haste Debate:
This is the spreadsheet I am using, reference it at your leisure. It's an amazing tool, done by some spectacular theorycrafters: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/lv?authkey=CKPti9oE&hl=en_US&key=0AsDL8HE-bGDVdEU1S1NqMW5IbWU1dURKcmdibFFTeVE&authkey=CKPti9oE&hl=en_US&f=true&noheader=false&gid=29 (Credit to Lebeau and friends) What we want to focus on is the grey area. The Haste Argument: (Please reference page 6-7) Use this spreadsheet (Anohako's): https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0ArjIvkTY1iOAdGRtQi1iY01PWGJsOFR6OGpfRE54VEE#gid=0 I'm going to say this right off the bat: The math on haste illustrates that Haste provides a significant amount of HPS (about double) more than mastery or crit does. If you are going for haste, regardless of the thresholds, you are gearing purely for the HPS factor of it. Mastery still has more HPM, however. Nothing has changed since 4.2 when it comes to mastery. It's really that simple. If you see haste, take it. If you see crit or mastery on a piece of gear, reforge out of it. If you're coming from 4.2 and a Haste/Spirit build, and you want to stay this way, carry on. You're not doing anything 'wrong,' and you can heal content perfectly fine the way you are. Stat priority for Haste build: -Int -Spirit (TO COMFORT) -Haste (You would of course stack the crap out of this) -Mastery=Crit, I would put these at a 1:1 ratio of you can help it. Update: The math is out on it, courtesy of Anohako, that Haste is indeed better when it comes to HPS, and other facets. I will repeat this tremendously and clearly: Haste is better HPS. IF you prefer that playstyle, if you want to gear for haste, then continue to do so - you are not doing anything wrong by doing so. The Mastery Argument: ***This argument is for the sake of argument, it is a viable playstyle.*** With the introduction of Holy Radiance, the way we are going to gear for 4.3 is going to be very (almost complete opposite) of what we have been doing in 4.2. Let me explain. As you can see, line 17/18 shows that with just 3/3 Speed of Light, Judgements of the Pure, and the 5% Haste buff from Spriest/Boomkin, you need 3493 haste to achieve the 5th tick. While this is a feasible goal for haste, it is not by any way effecient at all. If you do aim to get to the 3494 haste threshold you will be sacrficing throughput. While haste is strong, that much haste will only scale inversely because of how fast you would be casting. The faster you cast, the more mana you waste. So the only logical haste threshold to follow after that is in line 19 and 20: With 3/3 Speed of Light, Judgements of the Pure, 5% Spriest/Boomkin buff, and Divine Favor you can reach the 5th tick of Holy Radiance. For both 17/18 and 19/20 you still hit the fourth tick. That's great. But with 19/20 you are reaching the fith tick for less Haste, but only during the duration of Divine Favor. Now, you may be thinking: Why gem and gear outside of haste? It's the best. Well. Yes. It is. Haste is no doubt a straight throughput buff. But since the 5th tick of Holy Radiance without Divine Favor factoring in is too high to say that it's safe to use (you will sacrifice other important stats such has Int, Spirit, or even a trinket slot), the only efficient goal for this patch would be the 777 haste breakpoint. That said, what should you go into after you've reached this really easy breakpoint? The numbers are still out, and take this with a grain of salt, but after speaking to some other Paladins this is what your stat priority will look like: -Int -Haste (up to 777) -Spirit (Up to roughly high 2000, or 3000 assuming a nice Spirit trinket) -Mastery -Crit (Remember, Crit affects healing effects by 200 - 205%~!) Now, it is important to remember that in 4.3 while mastery affects most of our spells, it still does not affect Holy Radiance fully. You see, Holy Radiance's total throughput is divided into somewhat of a 66%/33% split between the burst and HoT, and Mastery only affects the burst heal, not the HoT. That doesn't go to say that Mastery is bad, I actually prefer mastery to crit considering Mastery is much more stable than crit is. ***Your playstyle is what you need to consider here. By this point, if you feel comfortable going crit after haste, then go crit. If you're comfortable with mastery, go mastery. If you want a split even between the two: report back to us and let us know how it is.*** |
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Edited by Practical on 12/6/11 9:22 PM (PST)
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Stats Continued: Gemming/Enchanting/Reforging - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Quoting Lylthe again, with some edit's to fit the current epic gem model:
Addons: I actually made a guide concerning healing addons, lets see if the mods want to be nice and sticky it: http://us.battle.net/wow/en/forum/topic/1219753280 Our Shadow Priest has an absolutely gorgeous UI, many people have found it delicious and I would like to share with you what it looks like. If anything, he does an excellent job detailing how to use, modify and customize these addons:http://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PL761D808689FB3840 ________________________________________________ Healing Forum MVP |
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Edited by Practical on 12/21/11 1:47 PM (PST)
Update Log:
12.7.2011 - Updated Mastery/Haste section, fixed gem list. 12.21.2011 - Added Haste priority list. ________________________________________________ Healing Forum MVP |
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Reserved
________________________________________________ Healing Forum MVP |
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Sorry, thought it was done. Thanks so much <3 ________________________________________________ Healing Forum MVP |
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i don't know if we really required a whole new guide, 5 minutes of research would tell somone that we don't stack haste anymore, but overall i can't see anything wrong so i'll request sticky.
just nitpicky but i noticed a spelling error under the glyphs section (though mana do) |
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Looks like a great guide, I really like the formatting. It would clearly be better if it were about Ret though! <3 ;)
________________________________________________ PVP Forum MVP If you have PVP related questions I will do my best to answer them My PVP Blog: Battlemasters.org |
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This is awesome. Thanks Practical!
Sticky requested :) |
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Thanks for writing this. Requesting a sticky :)
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Some people don't like looking at information on third party sites. So I decided to make a more updated, current version of the one we have currently. Fixed the error, good catch! Looks like a great guide, I really like the formatting. It would clearly be better if it were about Ret though! <3 ;) I'll do anything for a Sunwalker!
Thank you! ________________________________________________ Healing Forum MVP |
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Great guide, thank you.
So...no more haste stacking then? o_O We've only done a few bosses in DS10 so far (so I dont have any gear) and my FL gear has me at nearly 2000 haste. Going to feel weird not stacking mastery anymore. :P |
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Edited by Practical on 12/10/11 3:49 PM (PST)
That depends on your playstyle. Every healer knows that Haste is a straight HPS increase, but in there's one thing that has always been true: Haste scales inversely, meaning the higher haste you have, the most casts you'll cast = more mana you'll waste. That, and this tier our second Haste threshold (5th tick) without Divine Favor is so high that it's not worth gearing towards. Your best bet is to go with the 777 Haste threshold. That not only provides you with a 5th tick of Holy Radiance under the effects of JoTP/DF/5% Haste buff/assumed 3/3 Speed of Light, but it also makes your HL/DL under a 2 second cast time. People will no doubt still go haste. If we had another tier this expansion, we would no doubt still be stacking haste - but that's not the case (BOOM. A RHYME.) That said, while the stat weightings are still relatively the same, the most logical thing to do is to go with mastery or even crit. (This is all within my opinion and should be understood that if you find Haste to be a better playstyle, to go for it) ________________________________________________ Healing Forum MVP |
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Haste doesn't scale inversely if the heals are effective, casting faster doesn't WASTE mana.
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