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And thanks for the thread, btw. A good guide helps even seasoned players, like myself (I never use Hand of Sacrifice in PvE...but if you're bubbled...why not? Definite add to my list of personal healing improvements XD). I'm trying out a PvP guide to healing, also, and you cover all the basics so I don't have to waste my breath. So, thanks!

Thank you for the guide it helped me on several questions i had (the math lesson kinda threw me but the numbers i was looking for came up later on) thanks again for the very informative and easily understandable guide will help alot

Haste doesn't scale inversely if the heals are effective, casting faster doesn't WASTE mana.

I think he means that its more mana consumed.

Not quite. Essentially what it means is that just because you have additional haste you WILL NOT CONSUME more mana as long as your heals remain EFFICIENT. Which essentially means that as long as you are healing "smart" (controlling overhealing, using the most efficient spells for the amount of healing required, using cooldowns efficiently, etc.) you won't burn mana at a significantly higher rate than other builds. Haste only ALLOWS you to consume mana at a higher rate, it does not automatically consume at a higher rate.

The only time I would recommend haste is when you heal with a resto shammy, since mana would never be an issue really. Mana Tide Totem...yum

There are a lot more factors to consider then whether you have a resto shaman present. Gear levels, spirit levels, content being healed and the character of that content (progression vs. farm), skill level of your fellow healers, overall skill level of your raid, nature of raid mechanics and incoming damage, nature and likelihood of potential mistakes, etc.

I would say it's not much of a stretch to say the majority of Hpallys went haste builds for progression in T11/T12/T13 for one reason or another (typically b/c haste has been shown to be the highest HPS of any secondary and mastery was terrible until T12), but there is always this overriding reasoning for haste - "when you need it, you have it".

I was just doing a quick easy answer, duboom. Of course there are other factors. I see the point you're trying to stress about haste, but I still disagree. Haste is so that you can spam faster, not heal someone at low health faster (meaning, you would use your instants to keep them alive, not big but infinitely slower heals). Its not at all for efficiency, but purely for HPS because mastery is still more mana efficient anyway. I've always been a proponent of master > haste because of the mana problem EVEN if you have all the mana regen glory in the world from your group. (Zon'Oz way back when was tough for my g even with 2 hymns and mana tide). Since you already get a ton of haste from your spec (like 15%), you can offset that with mastery.

At this point in the game, it really doesn't matter. 30% nerf? Go Crit, or, for crying out loud, go hit and you'll be fine. I wouldn't suggest it if you're still working on h progression like us nubs are but... =/

brilliant, absolutly brilliant, thats all i can say this is the most detailed helpful guide i have found. thx for the work and the help i appreciate it and im sure so many others do as well, please keep it up.
thank you.

07/30/2012 04:22 PMPosted by Sunlust

Haste is so that you can spam faster, not heal someone at low health faster (meaning, you would use your instants to keep them alive, not big but infinitely slower heals).

We can agree to disagree =)

The statement I've quoted is completely backwards imo. While having haste does ALLOW you to spam faster, what you are essentially going for with haste is one of 2 things:

1) Faster heals - hoping that a .1-.2 reduction in cast time will lead to saved lives (ie. heals landing before killing blows that would not have landed with a lack of haste)

2) Reaction time buffer - So your .1-.2 late reaction can be made up with the additional haste. (similar in practice to #1, but theoretically different)

and to a MUCH lesser extent, so you can literally cast more heals in a given time frame. This is basically what you're saying is the main reason for stacking haste, while I would argue (in most situations) it is simply a result of having haste for 1 of the 2 (or both) reasons listed above.

Stacking haste doesn't automatically mean you will be spamming heals. It doesn't even necessarily mean you will cast a material amount of ADDITIONAL heals compared to a mastery or crit build. Again, you have to assume a certain level of efficiency for an accurate analysis. If there is healing to be done, whether you are mastery or haste - you cast a heal. If there is no healing to be done, whether you are haste or mastery - you don't cast a heal. Just because you can, all of a sudden, cast a heal FASTER doesn't mean that you cast it just for the hell of it. Over a given period of time with equal amounts of incoming damage will you cast more heals in a haste build than a mastery build? Yes. Will that amount be material/significant? No.

For the record, I rocked a crit build for the majority of H-DS progression and absolutely loved it. I also went Mastery/crit during FL and produced really good numbers, but I absolutely hated the play style. I'm certainly not a huge advocate of stacking haste, but the argument that additional haste will cause you to consume mana faster is false. It only ALLOWS you to consume mana faster.

1) Faster heals - hoping that a .1-.2 reduction in cast time will lead to saved lives (ie. heals landing before killing blows that would not have landed with a lack of haste)

2) Reaction time buffer - So your .1-.2 late reaction can be made up with the additional haste. (similar in practice to #1, but theoretically different)

Well, more disagreeing =P

Simply put, a .1-.2 or even .3 difference in heals wont necessarily save lives, imo. Especially for paladins (I can't speak for other healing classes), if someone is that low, to the point that its the difference of .1 seconds, don't cast a heal, use an instant. If you're divine light is somehow all the way down to 1.5 seconds and mine is still chilling at 1.9 like it is now, I would still get 2 heals by the time you've dropped your bomb (HS and WoG or something) and I would have been the one to save the life while you simply top them off.

I guess I'm just speaking from experience that you utilize your fastest abilities before using slower ones. Haste will still get you more HPS, but only if you're spamming. Again, from experience, its hardly the damage that overwhelms the healing anyway. Its mostly the healing overwhelms the mana, then you have to stop and then people die.

But again, this late in the game, it doesn't really matter. If your heals arent enough to keep up with damage, then go haste. If your problem is mana, which it always is for pallies, go mastery.

If both of our instants didn't have a cooldown (and if HS was a stronger heal) I would agree with you. I'll take DL + WoG over HS + WoG any day for burst healing. The timing difference between when you get your WoG goes off and when I get mine off is about a GCD (slightly less - yours would land at about 1.1-1.2 seconds and mine would land at about 1.8-1.9). if we're talking about just healing obsolete or non-challenging content (we don't have to talk about 30% DS lol) then yeah, doesn't matter what you do.

Simply put, a .1-.2 or even .3 difference in heals wont necessarily save lives, imo.

If that reduction in cast time doesn't save any lives, then lives aren't at risk. If lives aren't at risk then again, we're just talking about non-challenging content - which is no fun.

I guess I'm just speaking from experience

As am I. We've probably had slightly different experiences is all.

so would i go all out haste or mastery

I'm trading all Crit and Haste for Mastery now. Gem'd all Int. But any multi-color slots gonna grab whatever spirit / Mastery I can.

Not a big fan of this new "flavor" of Pally healing if I'm being honest... but we all keep on keeping on I guess.

well what i'd say, if im having mana issues or im just running out of mana too fast then ill reforge items that already don't have spirit to have spirit on it.
If i want more hps (healing per second) then id go for a balanced mix of crit and haste.
If im reforging and an item already has haste and spirit on it, ill reforge that haste into crit, or if i have a piece that has mastery on it and spirit on it, then ill reforge that mastery into crit or haste (preferably crit).
I do however reforge a little bit of haste and crit into mastery to boost my bubble for situations like on heroic madness ill start healing the first tank that takes the impale before he takes it so his damage taken will be reduced by my bubble.
(pallies love their bubbles =D)

i use sacrafice on the tank on heroic madness when he takes an impale but u gotta put a smaller bubble on u so u dont get killed, also i heal myself to get my mastery bubble up beforehand.

Update:

As a turn of events have occured, I will be playing Paladin for the bulk of MoP, which means that I will be updating this guide soon-ish.

Thank you for your patience.

Woohoo!

Now to get you to post more in the libram!

Ooo, lookin' forward to seeing an updated guide! This was a life saver when I first got into Holy. :D