Raid Finder Loot Exploit Suspensions

71 Gnome Warlock
1190
12/06/2011 09:59 AMPosted by Bashiok
Shortly after patch 4.3 was released, we became aware that some players were abusing an exploit to obtain loot from the same Raid Finder bosses multiple times in a single raid lockout period (one week). The Raid Finder loot mechanic is of course intended to only allow a person to roll on boss loot drops once per raid lockout period. The raid lockout mechanic has been a mainstay of the World of Warcraft rules since Onyxia and Molten Core, ensuring that no one can obtain loot from a boss more than once per lockout. Due to the nature of the exploit and the clear intent of those who abused it, they've been issued notices and given temporary suspensions from the game. We’re also working to remove all Raid Finder items from those who used the exploit.


So at what point did Blizzards stance change on bans and suspensions being a private matter? I report someone I'm told I can't know what happened or if anything happened because it's private. Yet here a community leader publicly announces suspensions of 1000's of players?

At least make your policy something that you can repeat. The large Majority of t11 was exploited in some way. GS on an individual person with heroic Maloriak breaths, every single heroic Atra kill for the first month (there is a reason there were never any Heroic Atra videos released), the list could go on and on. You didn't ban or give suspensions for any of this and worse you fixed the fights but let everyone that did them in an exploited fashion keep it all. Flower Power exploits in Ulduar? No bans. Show some kind of regularity to your punishments. For the large majority of guilds their take is/was we've been exploiting since vanilla wow to gain any advantage we can because we know everyone else is as well, yet Blizzard hasn't punished us before so why should we be expecting a punishment now.

Or fix your loot system so heroic kills won't be completely RNG loot based. Any guild that didn't exploit, yet still saw 4 tier tokens for their non pally tanks and pally healers has such an incredibly gear lead it's a joke. A thirty second raid wall that you can alternate with tanks on Heroic Ultraxion will make or break the fight. Just like Holy paladins 4 piece Holy radiance buff. Fix your system so that people don't feel they have to do things such as this to compete.
91 Night Elf Priest
8825
I am glad they were banned for a week, however, seems weird that in Diablo 2 and WC3 you would have your CD KEY banned and have to buy a new one. They should force these guys to remake their toons. Top Guild? You're below the worst level 1 guild when you cheat to become 'better then the rest'
60 Human Warlock
750
They're supposed to be the pinnacle of Warcrafting excellence, they are an example and baseline for many raiders to judge their own performance.

Ban them, permanently.

Thing is, they cheated within the mechanics the game allowed. They didn't cheat like BloodSworn (aka: Overrated) cheated back in AQ40.
http://wikibin.org/articles/overrated.html

They used to be on my server before most of them had their accounts banned for using a game hack to let them wallwalk to a boss, skipping the trash.
90 Undead Priest
8890
I personally find it sad that the policy is what you 'should' have done. You released the code to live. It has already been made public that the exploit had been reported during PTR. If that's true (again, *if*), then it was a choice to not fix it.

Banning people for using something you chose not to fix and later saying they 'should' have known not to do it is reprehensible.

Just my 2 cents.
Edited by Angoth on 12/6/2011 10:57 AM PST
15 Night Elf Druid
70
I have to admit....I'm rather surprised and impressed that Blizzard did anything. I certainly didn't think they would risk annoying sponsored guilds or even the most visible guilds.
So kudos to you Blizzard for proving me wrong.
I'm glad you did the right thing.

100 Tauren Shaman
7750
Well it turns out that Blizzard does indeed hold ALL players to the same standard, and my respect level for them has just got up a few notches. Thank you Blizzard for trying to maintain a fair playing field amongst the community.
100 Gnome Warlock
3515
So at what point did Blizzards stance change on bans and suspensions being a private matter? I report someone I'm told I can't know what happened or if anything happened because it's private. Yet here a community leader publicly announces suspensions of 1000's of players?


They also reported the botting banwave as well. Large scale account actions generally set the community abuzz with rumourmongering, so they nip it in the bud by explaining what caused it. Also, as they did not name specifics they did not violate their own internal policies.
15 Night Elf Druid
70
12/06/2011 10:54 AMPosted by Maloris
So at what point did Blizzards stance change on bans and suspensions being a private matter?


Who did they mention by name or guild tag?
55 Worgen Death Knight
90
12/06/2011 10:45 AMPosted by Mâximus


if you could go ahead and never post on these forums again that'd be great


There really needs to start being a ZERO TOLERANCE toward cheaters, I feel if you had something that ONE CHEAT and their account gets BANNED and LOCK and all toons on that account are locked, you wouldn't have a wide spread problem.


Blizzard awards cheaters. Look at all the ML ninja's that they allow. Or how a guild member can steal stuff from the Gbank and since they had access its fine.

Instead they will ban these players because blizzard forced them to do content that was below them. What else would you expect them to do. They are prepairing for heroics and since blizzard makes then do a level of content that is below them they need to find something they can do to prepair.

Was what they did right? No. But when blizzard keeps you from doing your content you are going to look at ways to fill your time to prepair you for your heroic content.

Also would also like to know how far they are looking into this. Are they just checking out the top 100 guilds or are they checking everyone. If its banale for the top 100 guilds its bannable for everyone and they shouldnt just target the top guilds as to think they were the only ones to do it.

Good job Blizzard!
90 Night Elf Rogue
13455
Doesn't seem like enough, personally. Using an exploit once is worth a slap on the wrist, but several high-profile groups abusing it multiple times? That's a conspiracy to systematically commit abuse. I like the suggestion previously mentioned, whereby they lose their sponsorships, likely as a result of this publicity. But that should be in addition to a stiffer reprimand.
90 Blood Elf Paladin
12845
Going to post an abridged version of what I posted elsewhere for the benefit of Blizzard. While I have qualms about how these suspensions affect this race in particular, I think that if this exact punishment becomes the standard for guilds found to be cheating the system in whatever race they might be in (world first, server first, kill-the-boss-before-patch-day, whatever), then we may see a huge improvement. But Blizzard has to stick to their guns on this one--if it happens once and then never again, we will quickly find ourselves back in a position where top guilds feel they need to cheat to keep a competitive advantage, or even level playing field.

Maintankadin:
I, personally, disagree that skewing the race so much was a good choice for the game as a whole--after all, for a lot of higher-end-but-not-highest-end raiders (or maybe just me and I'm being arrogant) the world first race is followed with rapt attention, and is a great motivator to log on and play. It makes me want to clear the content that the best in the world are racing for. I feel like Blizzard should have stripped the gear obtained illegally on Monday night, leaving guilds that used this strategy at a disadvantage, but not a crippling one. 3-day bans back on Thursday or Friday would also have been appropriate (the two combined even more so). This choice is one that affects not just the guilds that used the exploit, but also the competition that didn't (after all, what good is running a race against no one, which is--based on last tier's rankings--what vodka is essentially doing at this point?), as well as the fans and the game itself.

THAT SAID I'm actually very glad that they did something. With this, guilds may be less likely to abuse exploits in the future; hopefully, this type of ban will become the standard for guilds trying to cheat the system. If everyone goes into things knowing "if we cheat, we lose a week of progress," then perhaps the admittedly damaged reputation of the world first race can recover quickly. In this regard, while the choice was a poor one for the game in the short term (hurting a large, interest gathering competition right before the release of a game that is quite possibly WoW's largest competitor), it is 100% an excellent one for the game in the long term--provided that this is a policy that Blizzard sticks to.


Daewen:
Doesn't seem like enough, personally. Using an exploit once is worth a slap on the wrist, but several high-profile groups abusing it multiple times? That's a conspiracy to systematically commit abuse. I like the suggestion previously mentioned, whereby they lose their sponsorships, likely as a result of this publicity. But that should be in addition to a stiffer reprimand.


You do, of course, realize that Blizzard has little-to-nothing to do with individual guild's sponsors right? To be honest, from a legal standpoint, they may even frown upon WoW guilds being sponsored. But their opinion, ultimately, matters little in the sponsorship situation. As for the sponsors themselves, as they say, "all publicity is good publicity." While it's true that the guild's reputations may be tarnished after this debacle, it also made them more visable to people who may not have paid any attention otherwise. This equals more exposure for the sponsors. Likely, they're not too worried about it.
Edited by Kerriodos on 12/6/2011 11:06 AM PST
85 Blood Elf Paladin
SKP
10855
I don't agree with Blizzards stance on this. This game is supposed to be about brotherhood. Those players were in essence, doing the most meaningful thing this game can provide; brotherhood. They all worked together toward a goal and achieved it. Be it for items, or acheivements they still all worked together, even if it cost them gold. The people who SOLD them the items for gold get away with a pocketful and have no questions asked. This is NOT exploiting the game, this is exploiting human greed. One which Blizzard SHOULD be well-aware of.

Of the millions, BILLIONS Blizzard makes, how many of this content is simply copy-pasted from previous material? How many BILLIONS do they need to copy-paste content and make biased class buffs that go un-noticed by the masses? How many obvious by-passes of content have we seen that only left stones unturned and questions un-answered? Lets all fire away at the bad guys while not even commenting on the fact that the billions spent isn't spent well at all?

The real point is, do those that suffer from suspensions have anything legitimate to gain from having gear? The obvious answer is NO. Does Blizzard have anything to gain from suspending accounts at the whim of the many people complaining? YES! One can then clearly see that both sides are motivated by greed, the other is far more apparent when scrutinized, and one is so sublime that it takes a good sit on the fence to notice the pure greed being supported by its many advocates, those advocates suspend that greed through blatant apathy, and hope to gain some kind of illusionary pat-on-the-back, just as the ones who took the gear do. BOTH sides are wrong, but BOTH sides will not remain to be wrong for decades to come. -Encouraging the hypocracy benevolent in all of us.
90 Draenei Shaman
12980
12/06/2011 10:54 AMPosted by Maloris
At least make your policy something that you can repeat.


In a lot of cases, there can be a reasonable argument about whether or not a particular strategy on a particular fight is legitimate, which favors lenity for novel strategies that take advantage of how a boss's ability works. In no case can there be a reasonable argument about whether it is appropriate for a guild to exploit raid lockouts to get gear from multiple kills on the same boss, which favors substantial penalties for those who do so.
64 Blood Elf Hunter
460
12/06/2011 11:03 AMPosted by Hollyberry
8 days is a slap on the wrist. So they don't get world firsts, big whoop. They should be permabanned, and their guilds perma-disbanded.


Why is everyone saying 8 days? I've seen 72 hrs on some and 8 days here. Where is everyone getting their info on the length of the ban?
100 Orc Shaman
8135
I personally find it sad that the policy is what you 'should' have done. You released the code to live. It has already been made public that the exploit had been reported during PTR. If that's true (again, *if*), then it was a choice to not fix it.

Banning people for using something you chose not to fix and later saying they 'should' have known not to do it is reprehensible.

Just my 2 cents.


They knew they should only loot each boss once during a week. They all knew it.

The ToU is very clear in that you should not exploit bugs, desing problems or undocumented things.

Its irrelevant if the exploit was reported or not. It was an exploit -> they used it -> its forbidden to do so -> they deserved the ban.

Again, its doesn't matter if Blizzard chooose not to fix it or not, and even if they hadn't fixed yet (which they did) you should still not use it.

I personally find it sad that the message some people try to give is that anything that is possible to be done to reach success should be done, no matter if its legal or not.
That's probably the worst message you could give to anyone, yet that's what you are saying.

If your neighbour leaves his car unlocked, will you rob it because its his fault for not locking it?
91 Night Elf Priest
8825
There is an email on mmo champ

( here ya go http://media.mmo-champion.com/images/news/2011/december/LFRExploitBan.png)

showing an 8 day ban
Edited by Mcvay on 12/6/2011 11:09 AM PST
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