Fl nerfed again?

90 Human Priest
16170
Yeah, wonder how they expected people to 3 heal that pre-nerf, lol.
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85 Blood Elf Paladin
9730
The intent of the mechanic was indeed to require the raid to take turns cycling through the Breadths of Frost to reset their Superheated stacks, and to destroy the Breadth if too many people tried to camp in it at once. As it turned out, players discovered that a very, very precise triangle formation allowed three independent clumps to coexist inside the Breadth without triggering Geyser. All of the initial Heroic Ragnaros kills used this tactic and it became the standard way of doing the fight.

We could have increased the detection radius that triggered Geyser, but in general we try to avoid enacting changes that make an encounter more difficult once that fight has already been defeated. Doing so creates a frustrating experience for players who have to relearn something they believed they had mastered. The adjustments to the health and damage of Ragnaros and his minions in September primarily affected the difficulty of phases 1-3 of the encounter; at that time, we also decided that Magma Geyser should be removed from phase 4, but the change was not one that could be made in a straightforward way via hotfix, so it did not take effect until the 4.3 patch.

So basically, yes, it’s a nerf, but it’s because we weren’t happy with the mechanic and the only two solutions for fixing that were to either make the fight harder or to make it easier. And, as stated above, we try to avoid making fights harder once they’ve gone live.

Despite some of the insinuations in this thread, the change isn’t remotely going to let a guild that hasn’t mastered the encounter just walk in and defeat it.


Thanks for the clarification!
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Healing Forum MVP
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85 Tauren Paladin
7850
So basically they intended rag to last much much longer, but paragon outsmarted the mechanic. Lmao.
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90 Human Priest
16170
11/30/2011 05:32 PMPosted by Xiic
So basically they intended rag to last much much longer, but paragon outsmarted the mechanic. Lmao.


I guess Paragon is better at math than Blizzard is.
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85 Night Elf Druid
10665
That actually made sense since raid healing is a joke compared to other phases except for P3. But that also mean Superheated will stack to pretty high level to a group that is about to reset their stacks, meaning dps stacking will be much harder.

It would be interesting to see if that version being done.
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85 Worgen Warrior
1715
11/30/2011 05:39 PMPosted by Elliora
So basically they intended rag to last much much longer, but paragon outsmarted the mechanic. Lmao.


I guess Paragon is better at math than Blizzard is.


Need more healz plox
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85 Blood Elf Paladin
9730
11/30/2011 05:32 PMPosted by Xiic
So basically they intended rag to last much much longer, but paragon outsmarted the mechanic. Lmao.


I mean is that so surprising? To the player's credit, there are a lot more of us than there are the R&D team.
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Edited by Practical on 11/30/2011 5:44 PM PST
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90 Night Elf Druid
17755
If it wasn't Paragon you can guarantee someone would have figured out you can have more than one "clump" in the Breadth at the same time. It just happened that the Breadth gave exactly enough room for 3 clumps, which is exactly enough for the entire raid as per the clump requirements.

That's a pretty hilarious coincidence.
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90 Worgen Warrior
16560
11/30/2011 01:54 PMPosted by Zarhym
We did remove Magma Geyser from phase 4 of the Heroic Ragnaros encounter. The reasoning behind this change wasn't so much to make the fight easier, but rather because the mechanic just wasn't really playing out the way we wanted it to.

Holy hell. It really makes no difference what your intent was at this stage ... it played out differently.

I could care less that this is a massive nerf given we killed it many weeks ago, however the rationale you've provided is downright horrifying ... are you serious that the only reason this wasn't part of the initial round(s) of nerfs was because it was a pain to implement? You actually *wanted* to do this back then?
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85 Night Elf Druid
10665
If it wasn't Paragon you can guarantee someone would have figured out you can have more than one "clump" in the Breadth at the same time. It just happened that the Breadth gave exactly enough room for 3 clumps, which is exactly enough for the entire raid as per the clump requirements.

That's a pretty hilarious coincidence.


There's a chance that they're trying to "justify" the nerf, but at least the reason they gave was a plausible one.

But then, like the poster above mentioned, the fact that they allowed the triforce to exist even when it's not working as intended is downright lazy

so lazy or lolhugenerf, you can't have a good way out of this.
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90 Night Elf Druid
17755
There's a chance that they're trying to "justify" the nerf, but at least the reason they gave was a plausible one.


There's no real reason for them to lie about it. I just find it a humorous turn of fate.

I could care less that this is a massive nerf given we killed it many weeks ago


>.<

Considering the brick wall that Rag was with Breadth/Geyser, I shudder to think of the fortress he would have been if you had to stack healers and heal through Superheated/movement/potentially3meteors (pre-initial health nerf).
Edited by Slashlove on 12/1/2011 4:50 AM PST
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85 Night Elf Druid
10665
That actually sound like a really fun fight if properly tuned. But prenerf Rag with the mechanics working as intended actually sounds 10 times crazier than it was.
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90 Troll Rogue
21085
11/30/2011 05:59 PMPosted by Avermra
But then, like the poster above mentioned, the fact that they allowed the triforce to exist even when it's not working as intended is downright lazy

I'm not sure I'd call it lazy because its a really tough spot to be in, either way is bad. In previous tiers Blizzard has made changes after fights died that made them more difficult (H Hodir and Flower Power springs to mind) to much gnashing of teeth about unfair advantages.
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85 Night Elf Druid
11035
For 10m pre-nerf, the apparent intended mechanic would have meant a much longer P4 - which would require REALLY lucky RNG on not only every single dreadflame spawn location, but also on the breath locations.

And we'd probably stack melee as much as possible.
Edited by Thedave on 11/30/2011 6:17 PM PST
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90 Undead Warrior
10265
I find it a little funny that the strategy Blizzard let slide was a borderline exploit of the intended fight mechanics and people were herpa derping about how the 'exploit' was the only thing that made the fight hard. Of course, it would have been a bigger clusterherp if Paragon had killed Heroic Rag and then they forced the original (and much more difficult) design for the fight on everyone else, so it's a good thing they did it in 4.3 because nobody cares about old content (amirite?).
Edited by Turboether on 11/30/2011 6:23 PM PST
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Community Manager
11/30/2011 05:29 PMPosted by Practical
Thanks for the clarification!

Thanks for asking directly for clarification rather than prepping the tar and feathers for my blatant lies and attempts to deceive! No matter how hard I try, people always catch onto my wicked, wicked games of truth distortion!

You should be an MVP. :p
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85 Night Elf Druid
8910
@Zarhym

Why do blues never post here?

In fact, why is the number of Blizzard employes that post on the forum so low compared to other gaming communities?
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90 Orc Shaman
17975
11/30/2011 06:51 PMPosted by Zarhym
Thanks for the clarification!

Thanks for asking directly for clarification rather than prepping the tar and feathers for my blatant lies and attempts to deceive! No matter how hard I try, people always catch onto my wicked, wicked games of truth distortion!

You should be an MVP. :p


He IS an MVP. GAWSH ZARHYM -.-'
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90 Human Priest
16170
Poor Raggy, ph4 is so silly now.
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