Fl nerfed again?

90 Goblin Rogue
13685
11/30/2011 04:56 PMPosted by Zarhym


Do you mind indulging the intent of that mechanic versus the actual outcome of it?
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The intent of the mechanic was indeed to require the raid to take turns cycling through the Breadths of Frost to reset their Superheated stacks, and to destroy the Breadth if too many people tried to camp in it at once. As it turned out, players discovered that a very, very precise triangle formation allowed three independent clumps to coexist inside the Breadth without triggering Geyser. All of the initial Heroic Ragnaros kills used this tactic and it became the standard way of doing the fight.

We could have increased the detection radius that triggered Geyser, but in general we try to avoid enacting changes that make an encounter more difficult once that fight has already been defeated. Doing so creates a frustrating experience for players who have to relearn something they believed they had mastered. The adjustments to the health and damage of Ragnaros and his minions in September primarily affected the difficulty of phases 1-3 of the encounter; at that time, we also decided that Magma Geyser should be removed from phase 4, but the change was not one that could be made in a straightforward way via hotfix, so it did not take effect until the 4.3 patch.

So basically, yes, it’s a nerf, but it’s because we weren’t happy with the mechanic and the only two solutions for fixing that were to either make the fight harder or to make it easier. And, as stated above, we try to avoid making fights harder once they’ve gone live.

Despite some of the insinuations in this thread, the change isn’t remotely going to let a guild that hasn’t mastered the encounter just walk in and defeat it.


Middle School geometry says "hi".
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90 Draenei Shaman
11125
Either he moves slower, or he needs a lot less damage on a leg to turn him. In order to cope with it. We had to put one of our dps on the left leg to try and counter it because if they were on the right, he could litterally turn in a circle on one foot.

Which actually made the fight a bit harder because we over turned a lot more doing the same things we were before. Least he is dead this week.


Actually.

Each time we 'Ryolith it' we have to re-arrange which dps are on which foot, and which DPS are swapping back and forth. (See also: which DPS are fixed and which are driving)

This is not a new phenominom

It comes with 'Good days' and 'bad days' performance, new class research, new upgrades and so forth. The 'Move faster, and straight without turning' buff on Rhyo also screws things up. Does more damage than good.
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85 Night Elf Rogue
13485
12/01/2011 10:43 PMPosted by Libretto
The removal of the geyser mechanic completely trivializes the rag encounter.


I was going to make a post using that exact phrase. Anyone who's done phase 4 knows the only thing difficult about it *IS* that precise triangle and forming it each time you move to a new patch. This change actually confirms my feeling that Firelands was a complete and utter failure. Pre nerf heroic modes were fun and challenging, afterwards they held no value whatsoever, with Rag still being a brick wall. Clear H 6/7 in a hour and a half, then spend the rest of the lockout on H Rag wipes.

We got him to 12% in phase 4 before 4.3 hit and I would have pushed, shoved, and demanded my guild continue pulling the boss, even into the wee hours of the night, if I thought I could motivate them to do so. It was a huge blow to me to not get Firelord and I thought maybe I'd just stop raiding because it was that discouraging. Then, I found the consolation that maybe after we did DS for a few weeks that we could go back and keep trying but now it doesn't even matter to me. The fight has been trivialized.

So many of your decisions this expansion have totally blown my mind. Now we have the garbage that is dragon soul (yes, it IS garbage), cementing this expansion as by far the worst thing you guys have ever created. I am deeply disappointed in you Blizzard.
Edited by Valteris on 12/2/2011 2:29 AM PST
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90 Goblin Rogue
13685
I would have lol'd if they replaced his legs with 2 target dummies when he pops out...
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85 Troll Druid
0
What i really hate is the change to Heroic Ragnaros. I know it was not the INTENDED strategy, but geyeser is the DIFFICULT part of p4. One has to figure out how to handle the odd angles that meteors, getting ragnaros to roots, and dreadflame while avoiding geyser. The biggest of those challenges was kiting meteor while being restricted with the angles at which you could run.

This is a far bigger nerf then blizzard conceives. Loads of guilds got to p4, but could not kill it. This now makes p3 and p4 trivial as 2 meteors no longer sets back a guild, along with the most difficult mechanic of p4. So where is the challenge now? Living seeds and p2->p3 transition. If a guild has the dps and coordination to complete those, they will easily get a kill. Already I have seen several fail guilds get kills within the week. Honestly, normal deathwing is nearly as hard as heroic ragnaros is now.
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14 Gnome Mage
0
11/30/2011 01:54 PMPosted by Zarhym
Things like Fandral's Flame Scythe and Alysrazor's tornadoes have not been adjusted since our hotfixes in September.
Uh... Using a 7 leaps, 0 Scythes strat for heroic domo, before patch 4.3, all 7 patches of fire from Leap would still be around when your next cat phase started. Now, none of them are. Their duration was definitely nerfed.
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90 Tauren Warrior
0
11/30/2011 01:54 PMPosted by Zarhym
Things like Fandral's Flame Scythe and Alysrazor's tornadoes have not been adjusted since our hotfixes in September.


The time between flame scythes was increased.

on 11/17, the time between each scythe (for the first 5 intervals, or 6 scythes) was 13.5, 11.0, 8.5, 7.4, and 7.3 seconds.
on 11/22, intervals were at 13.4, 11.0, 8.6, 7.3, and 7.3 seconds.
on 12/1, intervals were at 14.5, 12.1, 10.9, 9.6, and 8.4 seconds.

Even allowing for some variation in the times from the log due to lag, the scythes are still delayed by about a second each, expanding to about 2 seconds.

The logs I'm comparing are available at http://www.worldoflogs.com/guilds/43852/
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90 Human Rogue
10855
So you developers have time to change Ryolith's animation unnecessarily but no time to fix the Firelands portal usage while mounted? Amazing.
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85 Tauren Paladin
7850
12/01/2011 10:43 PMPosted by Libretto
(world in flames always casting 4x instead of casting 3x the first and last time in p2, sons of flame no longer coasting high in the air when death gripped, third seed wave timing changing, p3 caster cheat spot fixed, etc).


He did four world in flames the first time on our first pull, but three the second pull (we wiped once). Not sure if they intended to normalize it, but if they did they failed, its random now which is worse imo.
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90 Night Elf Druid
17755
He did four world in flames the first time on our first pull, but three the second pull (we wiped once). Not sure if they intended to normalize it, but if they did they failed, its random now which is worse imo.


It's always been more or less random.
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85 Tauren Paladin
7850
12/02/2011 09:55 AMPosted by Slashlove
He did four world in flames the first time on our first pull, but three the second pull (we wiped once). Not sure if they intended to normalize it, but if they did they failed, its random now which is worse imo.


It's always been more or less random.


I dont recall him ever doing 4 world in flames the first time before 4.3.
Edited by Xiic on 12/2/2011 10:01 AM PST
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What he means is free firelord title for all.
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100 Blood Elf Hunter
16535
Fun Facts:
Phase 4 was indeed faceroll. We killed rag a full 40 seconds faster than we ever have before. That's the quantitative difference between carefully forming triforce and carefully kiting, to standing in the big blue circle.

Phase 3 was exactly the same except something we all know of was fixed (not that we used it).

2nd transition was the same.

Phase 2 is bugged to hell. He does his Hammer Smash at weird times which completely !@#$ed the choreography of the fight. Since Hammer smash delays other abilities when he, this has the consequence of changing both Seed timing and how the raid has to move.
-First seed is fine, as is the first run across the room. The hammer came at weird times vis a vis World of Flames.
-The timer for second seed was fine, but on our kill, he did the hammer 7 seconds later than normal basically on top of the raid as ran to the side with molten elementals bearing down on us and world in flames coming in. This could have easily wiped the raid, but smart movement saved the day and 1 only lost 1 person. This is new behavior. In all our attempts, we've never seen this happen before.
-The timer for the 3rd seed was consistently off. He waits unusually long to use the hammer that precedes seeds falling, and then does the seed right after the hammer. This was the raid wiper for about 7 attempts until we figured out what we going on and devised a new way to syncronize the raid.
-2nd transition was fine.

1st transition is no different.

Phase 1 is the same, however we found oddly, that raid DPS was ~2-3% lower as a function of time (which lead to an additional trap), which we really didn't understand. This DPS fall off is not reflected elsewhere in the encounter and is unique to P1. Don't ask why.

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12/02/2011 06:12 AMPosted by Mouthwash
Uh... Using a 7 leaps, 0 Scythes strat for heroic domo, before patch 4.3, all 7 patches of fire from Leap would still be around when your next cat phase started. Now, none of them are. Their duration was definitely nerfed.


This is not entirely true. The scorpion phase with no Scythes still lasted about 30 seconds, which was always enough time for the first 3 or so fire patches to despawn.

However, if all 7 are gone by the time you switch back, then the duration was definitely nerfed.
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Just ran through this last night and we downed Alysrazor while only having to bring her down twice. She was basically at like 40% health after the first burn phase..plus we had both birds and add down and had to wait 15-20 seconds before the tornados came.
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