Affliction warlock DPS Dropped in 4.3

85 Blood Elf Warlock
2480
12/03/2011 02:20 PMPosted by Zerref
Basically its too early to tell yet but something doesn't feel right.


Pretty much this.
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90 Orc Warlock
6305
I think with full t13 gear demo is still going to !@%* the charts there is so must haste on the gear its redic.
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90 Orc Warlock
6305
Then still reforging to mastery so yeah just give it time bros!
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90 Worgen Warlock
18570
12/06/2011 09:40 AMPosted by Zerref
*Deathwing: depends on strat but aff scales so well with haste (while destro would softcap) you are probably best off with aff but take a point into fel synergy or your pet chain dies.


Thats what I figured when we starting working on madness last night. With all the buffs and multidotting potential I thought affliction would do well enough. In my case at least it couldnt compare to destro. The burst needed to kill bolts is hard to attain as affliction where as a quick immolate/conflag combo can lay down a ton of damage, especially if you get a staff proc (lol).

Rain of fire works surprisingly well with the spellweaving buff on the bloods though. My guess is it has nothing to do with the actual damage its doing and more to do with the frequency of damage on multiple targets to proc the buff.

Werst-Are you still rolling demo on most fights? I can see youre destro atm with a haste build, do you just swap based on fight? How is demo with a haste build?



I have been all sorts of builds lately. I'm a chronic respec addict to begin with and the 4.3 patch has really not helped my addiction. LFR is also my new simcraft test range LOL. After alot of sims and full clear here is what I have found:

To answer your question: demo with a haste build is decent. Far better than the T12 style balls deep mastery w' MWC trinket/pet twisting thing. That type of on/off dps doesn't work well in 4.3 IMO. Scale factors of a demo build w/o MWC puts mastery slightly ahead of haste but not by a huge margin. 3/31/7 demo builds really like getting the extra tick on corruption so aim for 2K haste w' the rest to mastery.

As for Madness fight: Destro actually IS very nice for a couple reasons. At first I thought I was haste capping BUT that was only chaosbolt. *Very importantly* if you can get to 2681+ haste you are at the point where you get yet another tick on immolate with Nosdormu's buff (or lust when not buffed by aspects). This gives conflag a good snap. Also you can use/abuse havoc quite a bit on this fight just be dang careful about your havoc'd target's HP% to avoid putting strain on healers. While rain of fire is still pathetic spellweaving does all the heavy lifting and seems to proc more than hellfire and way more than seed.

For madness aff just didn't have the burst and our shadowpriest is a meter padding noodlehead (tab dotting/etc) so aff just didn't bring anything to the raid in terms of the issues on the fight. On our kill I was actually demo due to dropping our ele sham for a disc priest thus the 10% pact was needed. Ran felhunter out med/high haste demo using my soulburn soulfires for the elementium meteors. Did green, red, yellow, blue for platforms and used DG on the last platform with lust to drop the big tentacle before the elementium meteor.

Oh, if anyone else does their own sims please doublecheck me on this but it seems destro REALLY gains a ton off the foul gift trinket. It bumps the spec more than h.necro or anything else short of the 4.3 big dog trinkets. My best "guess" is the 20 sec mastery proc w' 45 sec ICD seems you can time immolate 2x during each proc being up which effectively gives your destro spec 1149 mastery for most of your immolates. Maybe I'm missing something but my destro spec as it stands is over 1K ahead of any demo spec I can come up with even going full mastery, 50/50, full haste etc on simcraft which usually inflates demo significantly vs real world.

Sorry to get off topic but so far the only fight I can really say aff rocks on is gunship. Multi dot and DS execute are very nice. Heroics start tonight so we'll see how that shakes out. I'm also slightly curious as to how aff's glyphs will shake out once we get up to/past 3K haste but so far even w' glyph'd UA going below the GCD I can't make a glyph'd agony setup beat a Doom setup.
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2 Tauren Warrior
0
Same here, my DPS has dropped by roughly 40% as affliction. Same spell priority.

Something is def not right. Prior to patch, if I watched everything very carefully, I could pull 28k. Now I'm lucky to pull 18k. 376 ilvl.

Shame, afflic is my favorite spec for pvp and pve.

Fix it blizzard.
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90 Blood Elf Warlock
12615
I am having the same problem.

I was keeping an eye on my debuff timers and every thing was siting around 85-99% but Shadows and Flames was showing at only 57%.

Only time my DPS went back up was when it got closer to 73% which was the highest i could get it. It should be closer to 100% because SB puts that buff up.

At a loss to see why it was so low

I wonder if that is the problem.

Using Skalda to track it.

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90 Undead Warlock
9980
I have recently gone 7/8, with attempts on Madness. First, i ran as demo, with ilvl of around 373. i pulled 23k-ish dps on bosses 1-4, but could only get about 14-16k on the GUnship fight, jumping back up to 25k (Give or take) on spine. Tonight, I raided as afflic (with ilvl 381 or so). I pulled around 18k or so on the gunship (probably not multi dotting correctly? any ideas?) and then spine. I did around 18k or so, but was well behind my demo build. On attempts for Madness, the first pull, i popped Doomguard asap and was higher than my guilds slightly better geared Ele shaman, but could only pass him when I used DG right of the start. Has there been a trend for lower numbers than there should be for warlocks on some of these DS fights? Especially Gunship. I assume demo may be best to help with AoE on Madness, and the meta uses.
Im looking for any confirmation, or rebuttle on dps issues, as I've tried every spec over the last 3 days. I can get 40k top in 5 mans as demo for around the length of the meta use, but a nice consistient (sp) 26-29k as afflic and destro. I understand afflic will only be better for multi dotting fights like the gunship, but is that solely due to multi-dotting? Any insight or help would be greatly appreciated!
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90 Worgen Warlock
18570
From what I've seen of public data if you aren't a combat rogue or firemage you aren't doing it right. Aff has kinda been balanced around not only multi dotting but having to stack SEx3 on 2x targets as well. Due to 2600+mmr 3v3 pvp nobody will touch aff's damage in any way. The mechanics in DS normal modes just don't favor aff except on gunship so overall the combo = a gimp spec.

Did heroic morchok tonight in about an hour and his mechanics suit destro since typically both "bosses" are too far apart to multi dot and you need to be standing on crystals. Demo's buff also doesn't extend to both groups. The movement for crystals and run in/out for black funk is also kinda hard on demo dps.

Regardless of spec no pve version of warlock compares to the top damage specs right now. Its not even close. Other specs get way more damage with less effort and less gear. I'm getting damn sick of being a) the buff bot, b) the DI bit**, c) having to juggle 2x the hassle of everyone else for results that are under mouthbreathers. I'm tired of my LFR mage doing more damage than my warlock. Love how destro was nerfed 5% globally when it wouldn't even have been a top spec at that point and is still unviable in pvp while mages simply leapfrog themselves spec wise at the top of the meter and enjoy 3x top pvp specs.



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85 Human Warlock
13150
I was getting around 23k in LFR for fights like Ultraxion with my gear...

I thought aff was supposed to be better than this or am I doing something wrong or is my gear too crappy?
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90 Goblin Warlock
0
It's actually funny now that you can't reliably get 3x SE on 2+ targets in most raids that people might finally see that affliction getting the numbers they did actually took a lot more work than people randomly crying about parses thought. No other spec had to work that hard for their numbers short of demo which really doesn't count since it's another lock spec and now the option is barely there for the spec.
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85 Dwarf Warlock
9295
Regardless of spec no pve version of warlock compares to the top damage specs right now. Its not even close. Other specs get way more damage with less effort and less gear. I'm getting damn sick of being a) the buff bot, b) the DI bit**, c) having to juggle 2x the hassle of everyone else for results that are under mouthbreathers.


In a raid with a more "average" skill level like mine we warlocks do ok. Out of the 3 locks in the raid 2 of us are normally in the top 4-5 with one of us out front. This of course is assuming the mechanics of the boss dont have ranged running more often than dpsing. Im sure its different at higher skill levels.

Its no joke though that we are a bit more complex than other specs but it makes beating them that much more rewarding. When you "win" recount theres no "LOL ARCANE IS HARD" type comments, just kudos. lol
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85 Orc Warlock
3405

In a raid with a more "average" skill level like mine we warlocks do ok.


In such guilds (like mine), your place on the damage meters is generally decided by your skill as a player and not your class. This is because there is a lot of skill variance, even in top dawg guilds on medium sized servers.

Tip-top near world first raiding guilds don't have that to the extreme most guilds do. The gaps between their players are much smaller, which means that class and spec matter more.



And I have to echo Werst's frustration with fire. Whenever the mage in our guild gets to run fire (rare because 10s with no ret), he leaps a good 4K DPS ahead of 2nd place. And he's not even that great.
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90 Worgen Warlock
18570
I've raided in some pretty skill capped scenarios and there is no comparison specs pretty much stack on each other. IE the 2x MM hunters are within a tick of each other, the boomkins are neck/neck, etc. Though at that level people don't care about damage and its a running joke how idiotic blizzard's balance tuning is.

Then again most of us (myself too now I'm retired from HC raiding) raid with a more mixed bag. Our group is pretty solid but has its variance. That said its also frustrating when the shadowpriest or firemage does more and you know they are a comparatively weaker (often significantly weaker) player. Our h.morchok kill we had the twins spread too far to multi dot most of the time. Destro went from significantly under the shadowpriest to leapfrogging ahead but that was due to havoc. The firemage working one target was basically equal to 15% spellcleave and he is our weakest caster. It would seem locks are basically balanced around the gimmick.

The first week (and a few LFR's) I tried affliction and it just doesn't do the numbers destro (if you can manage ISF) or demo do. Now demo falls on its butt when you try to run it MWC trinket style but gets much better/more fluid as you uncouple the CDs. I'm not sure if there was any stealth nerf but I do know they fixed the "bug" of death's embrace where it was working at 35% not 25%. Since they also fixed how BoDoom works with mastery/talents at the same time I figured it would even out but it seems not.

Also as we get higher and higher haste the benefit of glyph of UA goes away. Aff has no other viable glyph options so a "perk" we had is eaten up by gearing. I can't make Agony ever pass Doom even glyph'd on sims so aff just doesn't have a good option. You can't even forge/gear away from haste since its still the spec's best stat at any gearing level I've looked at. Mastery is truly horrible and crit wins by virtue of lack of better other options.

I think the combination of fight mechanics, the changes to death's embrace, and haste diluting the benefit of the UA glyph aff just isn't the competitive spec it used to be.
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48 Blood Elf Hunter
0
Affliction is dead, spec demo or destro or go home.
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85 Night Elf Druid
5315
I dunno WTF is wrong but my Afflic warlock pulled a miserable 11k on the 3 HoT 5-man heroics. Fights too short for DoTs to work? It is kind of devastating to the morale.
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85 Orc Warlock
3405
The only fight long enough in the 5 mans for Aff is Murozond. The rest don't even live long enough for a doomguard to time out.
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90 Orc Warlock
9915
Affliction had its time to shine. It simply isn't cutting the mustard in Dragon Soul. Better off switching to Demo or Destro for the sake of your raid, rather than expect any significant changes until the end of this expansion or the next raid (i'm just guessing at this).

Yes, it sucks for those who love affliction, but when you need to switch targets fast and burst things down and simply don't have the amount of adds needed for affliction to shine, affliction just doesn't have it this raid. Granted, i haven't gotten very far in heroics, but nothing really screams "Affliction is beast for this fight" so far.
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90 Goblin Warlock
4515
Roll Destro in DS, do it properly and you will crush the meters. Locks are perfectly fine. Remember, you could be a Hunter right now and really have something to complain about...
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85 Blood Elf Warlock
1600
12/11/2011 06:10 PMPosted by Packratt
The only fight long enough in the 5 mans for Aff is Murozond. The rest don't even live long enough for a doomguard to time out.


ya one thing i like about that fight is being able to summon 5+ doomguards if timed right. Since (could be a bug) they don't despawn when the time is reset.
Edited by Nës on 12/11/2011 10:43 PM PST
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90 Worgen Warlock
18570
As much as I've done repeat playthroughs of LFR as aff (with full proper gems/forgings/chants/etc) it just doesn't do well this tier so far. Maybe later hard modes but early ones are not for aff unless your raid comp/strat keeps the h.morchok twins close enough together to multidot AND you don't want to play destro AND you have a demo/ele in raid already.

The nice thing about demo and dest is you can swap between them somewhat easily. As long as you can get to 2589 haste in dest (ideally 2681) with a couple reforges you are g2g. (madness really likes 2681 if you keep nozdormu's buff up for awhile since you get yet another tick on immolate to conflag off of). The gear that is out there just doesn't let you go much under the haste thresholds so you will pretty much have to have 1573 (immo's tick point) in 378-390's gear and by hard modes you will be hard pressed to be under 1993 (corr's tick point).

Sadly aff just isn't doing well this tier but blizz seems fine with it. Then again they are fine with fire being the god of casters so the logic of "aff's multidot/spellcleave makes it impossible to have good single target" got tossed out the window for mages. But as the last 2 expansions have shown empirically mages and locks have very different rules and criteria for "nerfworthy".

Unsuprisingly aff is still our only pvp option and not as a damage dealer but as a fearbot and UA dispel protection bot (often for a fire or frost mage lol). So you still get your aff trigger time that way though its a bit less than satisfying from a pure dps perspective.
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