Raiding as Retribution - 5.4 - Updated 6/23

(Sticky)

85 Blood Elf Paladin
5620
12/06/2011 05:19 AMPosted by Xuzen
excellent guide! sticky requested

Thank you very much!
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90 Blood Elf Paladin
21240
pro guide is pro
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85 Blood Elf Paladin
5620
12/06/2011 06:50 AMPosted by calvinball
pro guide is pro

Spank you. :) Feel free to add, question, or correct something if it seems off.

[e] Your name begins with a lower-case letter. My mind = blown.
Edited by Svayne on 12/6/2011 7:08 AM PST
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85 Blood Elf Paladin
4675
http://www.wowhead.com/talent#sbhMZMZcbGsdksdfz:oRMRZm


not disputing your guide in any way but i just wanted your opinion, i use a spec shown in the link above, i find Eye for an Eye to be a negligible dps increase at best, wheras the utility you get from selfless healer allows you to save wipes or yourself if you have a struggling healer


thoughts? am i wrong here or what
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85 Blood Elf Paladin
5620
There's no truly wrong way to spend the last two points; I simply choose to put them in E4E because they are a DPS increase. Slight, yes. Negligible? Matter of perspective. Depending on the fight, it can net anywhere from half a percent to a good 2 or 3% of your total output. My recommended spec is simply based on the desire to maximize output.

[e] Edited the Spec section to include a little something about Selfless Healer, and then some. Thanks for bringing it up.
Edited by Svayne on 12/6/2011 11:20 AM PST
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85 Blood Elf Paladin
4675
NP
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Excellent guide! I just came back to PvE after years of PvP-only. I'm pulling great DPS even in this very sub-par gear. Thanks for the read!
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90 Human Paladin
9135
This guide has helped me a ton even before it was updated! Sticky requested! thanks for the good work and putting all this info in a easy to find location.
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85 Dwarf Paladin
8635
do you have numbers to prove that using judgement behind DP procs is higher than using it before?

edit: and i don't possibly see how HoW could be higher than Exo now with the crit nerf to HoW
Edited by Funkymonk on 12/6/2011 4:26 PM PST
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90 Draenei Paladin
16840
Yes!

Now people can't whine that I'm telling them to read out of date guides (which are still perfectly relevant for the core mechanics) when they make threads saying "MY DPS SUCKS FIX ME NOAWWW!!!!".

/liked
/request sticky
/hairflip
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85 Blood Elf Paladin
5620
12/06/2011 12:50 PMPosted by Wreck
Excellent guide! I just came back to PvE after years of PvP-only. I'm pulling great DPS even in this very sub-par gear. Thanks for the read!

12/06/2011 01:07 PMPosted by Gilley
This guide has helped me a ton even before it was updated! Sticky requested! thanks for the good work and putting all this info in a easy to find location.

Thanks for reading. :) Glad it helped.

12/06/2011 04:25 PMPosted by Funkymonk
do you have numbers to prove that using judgement behind DP procs is higher than using it before

12/06/2011 02:46 AMPosted by Svayne
The reason it doesn't move in front is because Judgement has the ability to proc Divine Purpose itself. It's possible that by using Judgement before consuming a DP proc, you may be wasting a new proc and therefore a free TV (and therefore DPS).

It's pretty basic logic. Why would you risk wasting a possible DP proc, and therefore a free TV, and therefore free DPS? I can't give straight-up numbers without actually scaling the raw benefit of each ability--and, to be honest, I don't know if I'm adept enough in the use of sim programs yet for that. If basic reasoning isn't sensible enough, I suppose you don't have to follow the suggestion. After all, that's all it is. Remember, most of this is theoretical.

12/06/2011 04:25 PMPosted by Funkymonk
edit: and i don't possibly see how HoW could be higher than Exo now with the crit nerf to HoW

Even with HoW crit rate vastly reduced, the priority of HoW ahead of Exo seems to remain. I suspect this is because delaying HoW will set back the CD on the next, while delaying Exo rarely will lose an Exo proc.

Source: http://elitistjerks.com/f76/t110342-retribution_concordance_4_3_voice_dps/p63/#post2053774
[e] Just to be clear, please don't take anything you find in the guide as the gospel truth. The information provided here is meant to be suggestion, not "do this or be bad."
Edited by Svayne on 12/6/2011 5:48 PM PST
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85 Dwarf Paladin
8635
yea the reason im asking is because i doubt a 15% chance for dp to proc while a dp is up is well 15% while using a judge is a guarenteed holy power. im sure someone will run the numbers soon enough anyways
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85 Blood Elf Paladin
5620
I'm going to go ahead and sim both rotations in normal T13 BiS. I sort of got lost in all of the information while putting this thing together that I neglected to actually do so... I've been using first-glance logic, but I may or may not be able to get actual numbers. I'll post my findings.

[e] Sims suggest no real variation between DP TV > J and J > DP TV. I'm writing it off to preference for the time being. If someone comes up with definitive numbers to prove that one way or the other is more efficient, then right on. Otherwise, it isn't such a big deal.
Edited by Svayne on 12/6/2011 7:56 PM PST
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85 Dwarf Paladin
8635
Not trying to be a %%#! btw just pointing out some things I've been wondering myself. This is a very nicely put together guide and will help new pallies or experienced ones.
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85 Blood Elf Paladin
5620
No worries, it makes perfect sense. Went and changed a few things in the T13 2-piece sub-section.
Edited by Svayne on 12/7/2011 1:31 AM PST
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85 Tauren Paladin
2430
Thanks for posting this! Was looking for some specifics regarding rotation as I'm fairly new to ret.
/request sticky
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85 Orc Death Knight
5345
Good job, Svayne. Requesting a sticky for ya. Keep it up.
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90 Blood Elf Paladin
11360
Good job. First read through, I thought I had something to add, second read through, realized I didn't, you just covered it elsewhere and it didn't click in my brain. Kinda tired at the moment.
Edited by Sevilon on 12/7/2011 4:24 AM PST
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