Retribution (6.0.2) - Do you even Inq, bro?

(Sticky)

+1 stick request!

question, whats the current value of haste? It does reduce the CD of DS/CS, how does that compare to crit?

Is it worth it to cast consecrate on single target?


Really great guide!
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85 Blood Elf Paladin
5620
12/14/2011 10:53 PMPosted by Johandrac
+1 stick request!

Thank you!

12/14/2011 10:53 PMPosted by Johandrac
question, whats the current value of haste? It does reduce the CD of DS/CS, how does that compare to crit?

Item Lvl 359 372 378 391 397 410
Strength 2.273 | 2.499 | 2.672 | 2.714 | 2.864 | 3.011
W-DPS 8.619 | 7.480 | 8.785 | 8.831 | 8.512 | 8.746
Hit rate* 0.985 | 1.097 | 1.259 | 1.441 | 1.523 | 1.764
Expertise* 0.985 | 1.097 | 1.259 | 1.441 | 1.523 | 1.764
Mastery 1.012 | 1.078 | 1.292 | 1.329 | 1.544 | 1.771
Crit rate 0.959 | 1.115 | 1.225 | 1.553 | 1.502 | 1.756
Haste 0.801 | 0.875 | 1.102 | 1.048 | 1.374 | 1.445

What Haste is worth compared to Crit for you is ultimately up to what your gear is like. You'd have to sim your toon (I use SimCraft myself) to know for sure, but Haste is generally going to lag behind Crit in terms of DPS gain. The difference is minimal, but there. Basically, I wouldn't ever recommend going Haste over Crit in the interest of maxing your DPS; not right now, anyway.

12/14/2011 10:53 PMPosted by Johandrac
Is it worth it to cast consecrate on single target?

If absolutely everything else is on cooldown for at least one more GCD, yes.

12/14/2011 10:53 PMPosted by Johandrac
Really great guide!

Thank you again!
Edited by Svayne on 12/15/2011 7:47 AM PST
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56 Human Death Knight
90
I think this rotation would be better with T13 2pcs:

Inc>CS>DP TV>J>TV>rest

Judgemente also procs divine purpose and a i can several of then being lost from putting judgement in from of DP TV. Nothing too Serious.
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85 Blood Elf Paladin
5620
12/21/2011 12:23 PMPosted by Alanderre
Judgemente also procs divine purpose and a i can several of then being lost from putting judgement in from of DP TV. Nothing too Serious

That was my original logic, but SimCraft says otherwise. Math says there's virtually no DPS variance between using Judgement before or after DP TV. I trust math.
Edited by Svayne on 12/21/2011 12:50 PM PST
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85 Draenei Paladin
11080
I would like to come in here and say that Exorcism could potentially beat out Hammer of Wrath in priority on non-undead/demons, especially with T13 gear levels. I noticed that Exorcism does more damage than HoW (especially now that HoW doesn't crit much at all anymore), and then on top of that, has the additional bonus 20% damage from the glyph.

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85 Blood Elf Paladin
5620
12/21/2011 01:11 PMPosted by Situational
I would like to come in here and say that Exorcism could potentially beat out Hammer of Wrath in priority on non-undead/demons, especially with T13 gear levels. I noticed that Exorcism does more damage than HoW (especially now that HoW doesn't crit much at all anymore), and then on top of that, has the additional bonus 20% damage from the glyph.

I'm inclined to agree, and have recently edited the Rotations section to reflect this.
Edited by Svayne on 12/21/2011 4:48 PM PST
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89 Human Paladin
4030
Thanks man. Looks great.

12/21/2011 01:11 PMPosted by Situational
I would like to come in here and say that Exorcism could potentially beat out Hammer of Wrath in priority on non-undead/demons, especially with T13 gear levels. I noticed that Exorcism does more damage than HoW (especially now that HoW doesn't crit much at all anymore), and then on top of that, has the additional bonus 20% damage from the glyph.


Hopefully in the upcoming patches/expansions they will stop messing around with ret pallies and we can have a steady DPS output.
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85 Blood Elf Paladin
5620
My pleasure, and thank you.

I feel like our output is significantly more steady now than it has been in a while, but we're still pretty reliant on cooldowns. So yes, hopefully we'll have that ironed out a little better in the future.
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85 Blood Elf Paladin
8270
Why has this not been stickied yet?
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85 Blood Elf Paladin
5620
12/22/2011 12:32 PMPosted by Celyndrashad
Why has this not been stickied yet?

Perhaps the mods have something against ole Svayne? Guess I'll just have to keep it bumped!
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85 Blood Elf Paladin
10115
It probably hasn't been stickied because Svayne already has a ret guide stickied. :x

We have someone on our realm forums who keeps track of progression every tier and his thread is stickied, but when it's time for a new thread it can take up to a month for the new one to take its place at the top.
Edited by Lobster on 12/23/2011 11:47 AM PST
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85 Blood Elf Paladin
5620
It probably hasn't been stickied because Svayne already has a ret guide stickied. :x

We have someone on our realm forums who keeps track of progression every tier and his thread is stickied, but when it's time for a new thread it can take up to a month for the new one to take its place at the top.

I had the same issue on my realm forums at the beginning of the xpac. It also took three months for the last guide to be stickied. I'm not in any hurry with this.
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2 Gnome Warlock
0
This technically might not be the best place for this question, but didn't really want to start a whole new thread about this, but how practical would it be to pick up tailoring as my second crafting profession as a ret? I know it's a good choice now, but from what I remember the melee tailoring embroidery was pretty meh in wrath, so I'm debating whether to take it, thinking ahead towards MoP, and not just for the now.
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85 Blood Elf Paladin
5620
12/25/2011 03:58 PMPosted by Spiketric
but how practical would it be to pick up tailoring as my second crafting profession as a ret? I know it's a good choice now, but from what I remember the melee tailoring embroidery was pretty meh in wrath

If you're serious about min/maxing, I suggest picking it up. I wouldn't worry too much about MoP right now, considering that we really don't know anything at all about professions in 5.0.
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85 Blood Elf Paladin
5620
12/26/2011 01:33 PMPosted by Hooves
sooo probably BS/Tailor for absolute min/maxing this tier.

Blizzard stated that it'd probably take til the end of the tier for any one person to have put together up a full set of epic red gems assuming you're picking them up exclusively from geodes. Most of us don't have the money to spend on those things either, so it could just as easily be true that JC will never actually devalue in such a manner this expansion, barring the top percentile of raiding guilds who can afford to outfit their players. As you may have guessed, most of us aren't in those guilds.

Basically, if you have the money to buy those Queen's Garnets as they hit the AH, you probably have the money to use Tailoring now and then drop it and level Blacksmithing once you're full epics minus two. The breakpoint for when JC starts to lose value and it's "time to go Blacksmithing" is when the first of your last three gem slots can be filled by an epic. Don't choose your professions based on the off-chance that you might have enough epic gems for it to matter a month before MoP release though.
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85 Blood Elf Paladin
8370
Recommended priority queues vs non-UD/Demon:
Inq > CS > DP TV > TV > Exo > HoW > J > HW > Cons
Inq > CS > DP TV > TV > HoW > Exo > J > HW > Cons

Recommended priority queues vs UD/Demon target:
Inq > CS > DP TV > TV > Exo > HoW > J > HW > Cons
Inq > CS > DP TV > Exo > TV > HoW > J > HW > Cons


So, here to talk about this here. These priorities are not necessarily the best. Obviously what I'm going to say here will have some caveats because DP TV will always be used on Inq or TV before your holy power. You are also inclined to completely bypass this post if you don't agree with it if it suits you.

So, vs non-UD/dem
Inq > TV > CS > J > DP TV > Exo/HoW > HW > Cons

So, obviously you don't want to let DP TV fall off, but you can get 3-4 (only really need 2 [holy power generators IF YOU DON'T HAVE 3 HP ALREADY]) skills in between before it will fall off. The chances of getting another DP proc are slim, so it actually a dps gain to do your 2 HP generators before a DP TV because you want them on CD as much as possible because the more HP you generate, the more TV's you get, which in turn = higher numbers.



Obviously, Exo is better on UD/dem than HoW, but on non, they are basically equal.

EDIT: This is with 2piece T-13 obviously
Edited by Sagittary on 12/27/2011 2:45 AM PST
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85 Blood Elf Paladin
5620
Priority queue w/ T13 2p:
Inq > CS > J > DP TV > TV > Exo > HoW > HW > Cons OR
Inq > CS > DP TV > J > TV > Exo > HoW > HW > Cons

This bit is from section 4.2 T13 2-piece Set Bonus. It assumes an item level of 372 or greater and less than 3 HoPo for simplicity. Pretty much the same thing, minus placing TV ahead of CS and J, which makes little sense in a priority line-up aassuming less than 3 HoPo.

My placement of DP TV is based off of EJ discussion and my own simulations. It's not just there "for teh lulz." Your logic fits, and that's reflected in the T13 2p section. However, the DPS difference between using both HoPo generators ahead of DP TV and using your second one (Judgement) afterward is slight to non-existent in T13N+ based on my own sims. If yours say something different, please, let me know. I try to keep this as open source as it can be with a single author.

On another note, if your sims tell you that rotation X is better than rotation Y but not rotation Z for you personally, great! Use that one; the information here is simply suggestion based on research and personal findings, after all. I intend it to be treated as such.

12/27/2011 02:39 AMPosted by Sagittary
Obviously, Exo is better on UD/dem than HoW, but on non, they are basically equal.

In current gear (T11H+) I'm seeing a deviation of 100 or so DPS (sometimes more, sometimes less) in favor of prioritizing Exo over HoW versus non-UD/Demons since the nerf to HoW's crit chance. If you're seeing something different in your tests, let me know so that I can look into modifying or adding to the guide and my own sims with your findings.
Edited by Svayne on 12/27/2011 2:02 PM PST
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85 Blood Elf Paladin
8370
Not about to quote the stuff. Too much work.

But, the reason I have my priority queue set up as so is because your priority queue makes it look like you should use CS or J even if you have a 3 HP TV in the waiting.

The reason I use my priority queue the way I do is because that is I get the best results with what I use. Every day (raid day that is), I spend around 2-3 20-30 minute training dummy sessions going over rotation possibilities etc. and this has consistently come out on top. I average around 32k (self-buffed might, SoT) in my current gear.

http://worldoflogs.com/reports/rt-mxtsider06pievgj/sum/damageDone/?s=1904&e=2186

(obviously LFR, but this is the only parse so far with my current gear. This is just to show I'm not bs'ing about the 32k sustained self-buffed on a dummy) NOT TRYING TO STROKE MY EGO EITHER

Like i said in my previous post, my rotation is what I find to be the best FOR ME, and that if you disagree, then be it as it may.
Edited by Sagittary on 12/27/2011 6:44 PM PST
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