Darkmoon Faire Island items -- too costly p.2

85 Human Death Knight
9450
12/06/2011 03:32 PMPosted by Arkthan
But.... that is with a perfect record of 145 tickets, and so far I don't see that happening at all.


Its going to happen for me, because i put out the effort for it.


Come back here in 2-6 months when you find out you have a life outside of wow, and you can't sit on your butt in front of your computer screen 6 hours a day every day until you get 145 tickets during that one precious week that you are allowed to participate in the DMF.

Not everyone can do this. It's a massive poke in the eye.
90 Goblin Priest
11695
I'm not one to complain about the game much... I let most things just roll off my back.

However, I found myself very disheartened yesterday when I looked at how many Darkmoon Faire tickets I've obtained so far, and how much harder it would be to be able to purchase things there.

I have to be blunt here. Saying that we could all earn 140 DMF tickets a month is unrealistic. What you mean is that there is a possibility of up to 140 tickets. If that's the maximum, and the process of obtaining tickets involves a fair amount of luck and RNG, then what you really need to do is tell us what our realistic AVERAGE is. Maybe it's closer to 80? 90?

I don't think it has to be this difficult, and I think the solutions from a development/designing side isn't all that difficult. Tweaks that would help take a lot of pressure off of people's frustrations:

Issue #1: Transmog gear

Solution: As we do dailies, I see that we earn Darkmoon Faire rep. How about changing the requirements for transmog gear so that we can purchase them with gold, but they require Darkmoon Faire rep to buy? You can even provide levels of rep progress, so you could purchase leggings at Friendly, gloves at Honored, and so on, with the most highly coveted (and most visible) slots available once a player is Exalted? So helms, shoulders, chests, could all require Exalted.... but be purchaseable using GOLD.

Issue #2: Low reward for DMF Island dailies

Solution: My understanding is that during the PTR test, players earned 5 DMF tickets for each daily done. I strongly urge the developers to consider bringing this back. People who faithfully got to DMF to do do the dailies will still be rewarded, even if they don't have the time or ability to run numerous dungeons or BGs to obtain the rare drops.

Issue #3: Tickets from Dungeon Rare Drops

Solution: If the concept is to encourage players to run different dungeons, how about offering us a special dungeon quest? What's the current number of dungeon rares? 7? How about offering us 7 dungeon quests (you could even just offer a different one each day, all week)? Those who complete a dungeon can loot the quest item from the final boss? This takes RNG out of the factor -- I believe the RNG factor is a source of great frustration.

Think about it this way; if the purpose of offering dungeon rare drops is to encourage us to do the dungeons, well, there you go. Give us dungeon quests, and we'll go do them!

Now... if you introduced the dungeon rare drops into the economy as BoEs on purpose, my suggestion would be to switch it around. Boss DMF quest loot will be BOP... but make the pets you purchase at DMF, BoU. It'll become like those pets we all worked for during the Grand Crusader patch. Those are still a very good way for people to make some extra money by just going and doing dailies.

Bottom line: I think Darkmoon Faire is a wonderful addition to the game, but it is in need of a couple of tweaks so that it's not the pain point that it is.

Thank you!
90 Human Warrior
12800
12/06/2011 03:32 PMPosted by Arkthan
But.... that is with a perfect record of 145 tickets, and so far I don't see that happening at all.


Its going to happen for me, because i put out the effort for it.


Fighting the RNG isn't effort. Dealing with people while doing the fighting is.
90 Human Paladin
8385
12/06/2011 03:22 PMPosted by Tuwah
But I'm seriously expected to put in a years worth of grinding, in which I can't afford to miss a single day or a single drop whenever the Darkmoon Faire is in town, in order to just have the slight benefit of having three nice looking level one alts?


What you're failing to realize is that these sets are not just for level one alts. It's to transmog your capped toon's gear as well. It doesn't really matter, you can't please everyone.


Whichever way you slice it, four months is still a ridiculously long time for just one replica armor set which has zero affect on gameplay or achievement rate.

You'll get no argument from me that pets and mounts should take time, as they're tied to achievements, but replica armor? I spent less time and effort collecting my judgment armor, and I had to grab a couple people once per week to come help me because you can't solo BWL (at least not the first boss). I'm seriously expected to spend far longer trying to collect armor pieces? In the time it'll take me to collect a full suit, I could level an alt from 1 to 85, and you know what? Those replica sets aren't even that good. By that time that alt's to 85, I'll probably start farming for T5 pieces or whatever looks better for that class.

For me, replica armor was a nice little fun boost. I never expected it to be such a horrendous grind fest for something which has no actual tangible ingame effect. And if I want to pursue those replica armor suits, I have to forego the mounts and pets in the meantime. So I have to decide between having an aesthetically pleasing look for a level 5 alt and a tangible, ingame bonus. Sorry, but that doesn't strike me as particularly appealing.
90 Troll Shaman
11585


It'd be nice if the drop rate was better clarified so we know what needs to be done to get the extra tickets.


Armory says medium for the level 15 ones:
Imbued Crystal
Monstrous Egg
Mysterious Grimoire
Ornate Weapon

The level 85 ones don't list a droprate:
A Treatise on Strategy
Soothsayer's Runes
80 Troll Mage
11390
Thank you.

Even assuming that people are able to cap out at 145 a month (which is statistically improbable for 90% of the players out there), it will be 3 years not counting heirlooms. 4-5 years including heirlooms (depending on how many sets you purchase.

Bashiok - I honestly would appreciate to know why the dev team believes it's appropriate to include EverQuest style drop rates. I don't know how much you know about EverQuest, but everything in EverQuest had a 2-3 year plan of bottle necking.

This is the 3-5 year planned bottle neck.

WoW used to have a 1-2 year bottle neck plan.




!@#$ing bad troll is bad
90 Night Elf Druid
18970
Sorry you failed at math again. 1420 tickets for 6 pets, 2 mounts, one set of gear. You dont need both but throw a second set in and you have 3 more months. thats a 13 month plan.


I like you.

Also, you guys remember the Violet Proto-Drake? Yeah, it takes 12 months to get. Or those Children's Week pets? 3 years to get all of them. Seriously stop your complaining. If you want the gear so bad suck it up and work for it, it is more than doable.

***AND people need to stop including the bracers for their ticket calculations and how long it will take. NOBODY WILL SEE THEM ANYWAY. You DO NOT need them for the set to look complete.
90 Human Priest
16170
well, at least we get to repeat the 1 time quests every month... still think the 5 ticket reward per daily on the PTR was better though. =(
90 Blood Elf Warlock
11240
The point at which the time investment isn't worth the reward is the point at which those who decide on these things should iterate on what is known as "appropriate". I would like my priest to wear a particular set of gear from the DMF. My priest is an alt that I don't plan on investing four months of my time on just to acquire a set of not-half-bad looking gear. This defeats the purpose (for me) of putting that gear in there in the first place.

One point that I want to make (a point based on a perspective, and not infallible, universal fact, mind you) is that the daily "grind" of the DMF and all daily quests in general is not something that I consider to be "work" in the sense of "working hard". "Working hard" for me was going out for twelve hours, or twenty hours on the weekend to grind rep with the Skyguard in BC, or Hydraxian rep. That was putting in work. I suffered, got my fingertips a little bloody, but after a long campaign done on MY OWN TIME, I had my rewards. It let me move on to the next big thing (trying to track down Thunderfury for my Warlock), and not have to break up my game experience every day by sending me to the far corners of the world doing gated dailies.

Gating rewards is a clever way to keep people playing and paying. We have to pay you for four months in order to grind the DMF for four months, instead of just sitting down for fifteen hours and doing repeatable quests like we could back in Burning Crusade. It's also clear that some (many posters here) are starkly disgusted with the idea that their game time is being channeled by the developers as part of some grand scheme to keep us from plowing through content too quickly and becoming bored (as part of a grand scheme to keep us playing and paying).

If I want to sit down for half a day, or two of three days when I have a vacation and grind the whole shebang in one go, I should be able to. If that means that I find nothing else to do afterwards because I've achieved a mysterious and fulfilling goal, and have no more use for WoW, then the developers are making content badly (one way or another), I'm a fickle gamer and not paying attention to the other things in the world of warcraft, or that that one special item that I ground my knuckles bloody for really has completed my life.

TL/DR Read it anyway. It's good for you.
I don't want to log in every day for four months doing the same thing every day in order to obtain marks of the world tree, or gather faire tickets, or gain rep so that I can buy fun things. That is NOT a fun or fulfilling grind. I don't feel like I've put work in. I feel like I've been kept from something that should have been mine a long time ago.

Another point was made that I agree with, too. Why do I have to do dungeons to gather tickets for a faire that awards vanity items? Usually, I'll play skiball for a few hours at the faire, not hop in the car, drive to the nearest war zone on the planet, and fight hordes of random people for them. In my honest opinion, make the faire quests repeatable. That's a hell of a grind for one ticket per quest, but people can do it at their own pace, and there's a lot of good things to collect. As it stands, DMF feels like a hopeless grind, and I'm quickly becoming disenchanted.

Change all rep dailies to repeatable quests. Make dailies just for cash/dungeon points/honor/whatever else you want that affects progression. Let me have my vanity items after some serious work, but don't artificially keep me from them via dailies.

Don't artificially keep me from things via dailies.

Don't dailies.

Let me do the work when I want to do it.
90 Orc Warrior
14095
12/06/2011 03:33 PMPosted by Elineé
Come back here in 2-6 months when you find out you have a life outside of wow, and you can't sit on your butt in front of your computer screen 6 hours a day every day until you get 145 tickets during that one precious week that you are allowed to participate in the DMF.


Just killed the RFC boss twice, one artifact. I do have a life, thats why i maximize my time to get things done faster. Im waiting for raid to start, farmed a drop. One less i have to farm the rest of the week.

12/06/2011 03:40 PMPosted by Aurelia
***AND people need to stop including the bracers for their ticket calculations and how long it will take. NOBODY WILL SEE THEM ANYWAY. You DO NOT need them for the set to look complete.


I like you too. Dont really see the chest either with a tabard on.
90 Blood Elf Warrior
10535
The original armor did not take me more than 2 months to complete.


We're not attempting to recreate the time investment that was originally seen to obtain these items when they were relevant. They exist for transmogrification/customization choices, not necessary power increase requirements to be able to progress your character.

If they were part of a progression path we'd definitely look at the acquisition rates and standardize them, but as they're show-off pieces the acquisition rate is usually gated a little higher so that the appeal and worth of showing them off remains high.


Ya, but we're not talking T3 here. It just dungeon gear and not nearly as show off worthy as most raid gear. Unless you add gear worth grinding 4 months for, I think most people will skip the replica sets to get the mounts and pets.
Edited by Michela on 12/6/2011 3:48 PM PST
90 Blood Elf Priest
17085
I fished up a Sea Pony last night. Nothing else matters.

k fine, I want that tiny little pony and tiger mounts. zomg too cute. I would save tickets for 2 years if I can get those mounts. I want that tiger mount more than Caitie wants her goggles. That's a LOT of want. =P

So after 3 resets, the games are still fun! The island is cool - love the colors. There's an anticipatory air of "More To Come". The areas outside are spooky. There's that sinking feeling looking at the deathmatch cage and what waits within. Really, 12 trinkets? Oh gawd.

At least this thread has shut the "I want the level 60 PvP gear" people up. This is our new Long Strange Trip type of deal. Enjoy the journey.

90 Human Paladin
8385
At least this thread has shut the "I want the level 60 PvP gear" people up. This is our new Long Strange Trip type of deal. Enjoy the journey.


Not at all. I didn't need to log in and do every single daily every single and accomplish every single feat every day the holiday lasted in order to get that achievement and the proto-drake. Often times, I could bang it out in a few days and not worry about it for the rest of the two weeks that the event was going on. Here, though, I have to log in every day just to try to maximize the number of tickets. I can't afford to miss a single day.
I fished up a Sea Pony last night. Nothing else matters.

k fine, I want that tiny little pony and tiger mounts. zomg too cute. I would save tickets for 2 years if I can get those mounts. I want that tiger mount more than Caitie wants her goggles. That's a LOT of want. =P

So after 3 resets, the games are still fun! The island is cool - love the colors. There's an anticipatory air of "More To Come". The areas outside are spooky. There's that sinking feeling looking at the deathmatch cage and what waits within. Really, 12 trinkets? Oh gawd.

At least this thread has shut the "I want the level 60 PvP gear" people up. This is our new Long Strange Trip type of deal. Enjoy the journey.


At least Long Strange Trip had a mount (310 speed IIRC) exclusively for it, and nothing was mooched off of the instances.
Community Manager
Just to clarify one point, the quest drops that happen in the dungeons/raids/BG’s happen all the time, even if the faire isn’t in town. Think of it sort of like the Darkmoon Card redemptions. You’re out playing all month, while you’re doing stuff you’re getting chances at the items, then when the faire is in town you turn it all in. (It’s also worth pointing out that the turn-in items aren’t soulbound, so just like the cards I’d expect some people to farm them just to put them up on the AH.)

It’s really just this first week and appearance of the faire that’s off because the Darkmoon Adventurer's Guide wasn’t available for the 3 weeks prior. When it rolls around next month there should be better feel for how the whole system and ticket acquisition rate feels.
90 Dwarf Warrior
0
It's 3 years - little over 37 months to acquire every single mount and pet in the game. It's 5 years to acquire at least 2 image copies of the dungeon set 1 and 2 in the game (appropriate to your class).

Again you're straight up lying. Each transmog set is 520 and you can get around 120 a month. All the Darkmoon mounts and pets are 900, seriously are you like some guerilla marketer for TOR or something? I've never seen a person this confused about addition and division in my entire life.
Edited by Gulvak on 12/6/2011 3:58 PM PST
90 Undead Mage
11935
12/06/2011 02:25 PMPosted by Amerika
good to see blizz isn't giving in to reducing the costs.
85 Gnome Mage
6730
12/06/2011 03:40 PMPosted by Aurelia
Sorry you failed at math again. 1420 tickets for 6 pets, 2 mounts, one set of gear. You dont need both but throw a second set in and you have 3 more months. thats a 13 month plan.


I like you.

Also, you guys remember the Violet Proto-Drake? Yeah, it takes 12 months to get. Or those Children's Week pets? 3 years to get all of them. Seriously stop your complaining. If you want the gear so bad suck it up and work for it, it is more than doable.

***AND people need to stop including the bracers for their ticket calculations and how long it will take. NOBODY WILL SEE THEM ANYWAY. You DO NOT need them for the set to look complete.


You point out part of the reason so many have an issue. As you just pointed out we already have/had countless number of grinds for pets and mounts. And some of you are fighting for things to stay that way? Why? And if you can do it without using "people just want stuff handed to them" or any of it's forms you get an extra point.
90 Orc Warrior
14095
12/06/2011 03:55 PMPosted by Bashiok
Just to clarify one point, the quest drops that happen in the dungeons/raids/BG’s happen all the time, even if the faire isn’t in town. Think of it sort of like the Darkmoon Card redemptions. You’re out playing all month, while you’re doing stuff you’re getting chances at the items, then when the faire is in town you turn it all in. (It’s also worth pointing out that the turn-in items aren’t soulbound, so just like the cards I’d expect some people to farm them just to put them up on the AH.)


Thats a huge difference. No one has any right to complain now.
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