LFR loot rules are totally broken

7 Undead Warlock
0
Had something similar happen to me just now.

Starcaller dropped (agi / haste proc), 3 rogues and a hunter roll. Goes to the Blood DK TANK. Roll bonus and all.

So, how is it a tank gets the roll bonus on a pure dps trinket (an agi one at that), but as a rogue, I can't roll on his dodge trinkets? Fair is fair and all. If he can take off-spec non-beneficial loot, I should be able to as well.
85 Human Paladin
4785
Well, that seems to be the more obvious fix, but it makes me wonder how easy it would be if they didn't implement it in the first place. As for a hot fix to get rid of this sort of thing for now, the idea I posted seems like it would be fast and easy.. though that assumption may be way off.


There's a number of reasons it could have been released bugged.

1. Wanting to get the product out to the players. It was a big feature of the patch.
2. Maybe the ease of the dungeons warranted the bugs being pushed out.
3. Bigger data pool for seeing how balanced/unbalanced characters and specs are.
4. etc..

My bet would go on number 1 however.
43 Night Elf Hunter
11020
Hey folks,

So, just to be clear, we're certainly aware that the loot system in Raid Finder needs to be smarter, as there's currently not a way for the system to determine loot eligibility based on talent specialization or class. To use the OP's example, if a Strength weapon drops and a hunter rolls on it, the system says "Yep, a DPS player is rolling on it. Okie dokie. Here's your +100." (We should really find ways for the game to say "okie dokie" in your chat log.)

This obviously needs to change and we're in the middle of discussing potential short-term solutions, as a more long-term solution will require programming new tech into the system which will account for class/spec.

We only ask that you keep in mind patch 4.3 is our first implementation of Raid Finder and the "Need Plus" system. The design is quite complicated and requires further iteration to make loot distribution more intelligent.


I know that this is probably very low on the list of things to do but it would be nice if you made an inteface that made it easier to see who won which items and their rolls for it. As it is you need to scroll back and try to find the one line that says, "Cornholio has won blah blah blah" in between the one hundred other rolls from the four drops.
90 Dwarf Warrior
0
12/08/2011 05:00 PMPosted by Zarhym
So, just to be clear, we're certainly aware that the loot system in Raid Finder needs to be smarter, as there's currently not a way for the system to determine loot eligibility based on talent specialization or class. To use the OP's example, if a Strength weapon drops and a hunter rolls on it, the system says "Yep, a DPS player is rolling on it. Okie dokie. Here's your +100." (We should really find ways for the game to say "okie dokie" in your chat log.)

Is it really so difficult for your developers to write something like
if(role==DPS && (class==(warrior || deathknight || paladin))) then rollonstr+=100
I mean just how hackneyed and poorly implemented is the system? For hybrids you could just check their active spec or something.

I almost wish the reason was oversight or laziness, because to earnestly program a system which is just so bad blows me out of the water.
Edited by Gulvak on 12/9/2011 11:04 AM PST
85 Human Paladin
4785
Is it really so difficult for your developers to write something like
if(role==DPS && (class==(warrior || deathknight || paladin))) then rollonstr+=100
I mean just how hackneyed and poorly implemented is the system? For hybrids you could just check their active spec.


I suggested something similar on page 17.

**Edit: post #333
Edited by Stubb on 12/9/2011 11:05 AM PST
90 Dwarf Warrior
0
12/09/2011 11:04 AMPosted by Stubb
I suggested something similar on page 17.

I'm surprised it wasn't suggested on page when and then repeatedly until the end of time. Sure it's a new system but even then something being new isn't an excuse for it being fundamentally flawed. Does the LFD let hunters run around looting strength axes?

edit: also yeah, I generally don't read the entire thread to see if someone else made the same general comment as I'm planning to, if that's your point.
Edited by Gulvak on 12/9/2011 11:09 AM PST
94 Night Elf Warrior
10065
Last night we had ONE guy win 4 pieces of gear......yeah
58 Worgen Death Knight
100
LFR should be based on Class/Spec bonus and Role. You build up your gear in dungeons so you can fill that role in raids, you don't show your !@# up in a raid and expect to compete with people fulling another role. So I'm for strict raiding loot rules where you get priority based on spec, but can still role need regardless in case you someone wants to try for their other spec. I seems the trinkets are an oversight which gives me hope.

LFD needs this too. Mainly class bonus vs role. Sorry but if you want Off spec gear, buy it from a crafter (might require farming mats) or run regulars in that role to get gear so that you can comfortably fulfill that role in harder instances. OR run with friends who want to help get you geared.
Edited by Bigbadwolfy on 12/9/2011 11:15 AM PST
7 Undead Warlock
0
I've said this before but I will throw it out there again. The LFR loot rules are not broken. The rules just assumed the WoW community wasn't full of douches. A socialogical experiment of what happens when you put 25 strangers together without having to worry about the consequences of their actions.

What they need to do is ban people like this, sure there will be a lot of tickets going in the first couple weeks, but after maybe a month of it, you'll see the amount of times this happens decrease by a lot.


It's broken when a tank can roll on dps loot (not even for his own primary stat type at that).
58 Worgen Death Knight
100
The game already tags certain gear based on what classes should be able to use it. It should be able to use that mechanism to brand what classes should get priority.

I've said this before but I will throw it out there again. The LFR loot rules are not broken. The rules just assumed the WoW community wasn't full of douches. A socialogical experiment of what happens when you put 25 strangers together without having to worry about the consequences of their actions.

What they need to do is ban people like this, sure there will be a lot of tickets going in the first couple weeks, but after maybe a month of it, you'll see the amount of times this happens decrease by a lot.


The game already tags certain gear based on what classes should be able to use it. Blizz should should be able to expand on that mechanism to brand what classes should get priority in conjunction with the role check.

Without a spec check, Shaman and druids can still exploit this for DPS specs only as they have 2 dps specs (Caster and Melee).
85 Human Paladin
4785
12/09/2011 11:08 AMPosted by Gulvak
I suggested something similar on page 17.

I'm surprised it wasn't suggested on page when and then repeatedly until the end of time. Sure it's a new system but even then something being new isn't an excuse for it being fundamentally flawed. Does the LFD let hunters run around looting strength axes?

edit: also yeah, I generally don't read the entire thread to see if someone else made the same general comment as I'm planning to, if that's your point.


Nope, was just bringing it to your attention. You wrote some 'code' yourself, figured it might interest you.
85 Gnome Rogue
8800
Saw this happen 3 times in a single run. Agi ring and agi dagger to a warrior (the same warrior no less), and an agi trinket to a dk.

Would be nice if it were fixed. I have a feeling that people just hit the dice everytime they see it thinking they just won the jackpot.
90 Blood Elf Paladin
14000
12/09/2011 11:18 AMPosted by Dekay
It's broken when a tank can roll on dps loot (not even for his own primary stat type at that).


It happens because they added druids to the tank role thus letting str tanks roll on the agi stuff that druid use since the LFR does loot by role. It sees tank rolling on agi gear give them bonus because agi is needed because of druid tanks, the system doesn't care if your not a druid.
Edited by Zumia on 12/9/2011 11:27 AM PST
100 Draenei Paladin
17310
12/08/2011 05:00 PMPosted by Zarhym
We only ask that you keep in mind patch 4.3 is our first implementation of Raid Finder and the "Need Plus" system. The design is quite complicated and requires further iteration to make loot distribution more intelligent.


I'm glad you guys said something on the issue, while it's endlessly frustrating I do realize that this system is new and far from perfect. It's still better then having nothing at all though.

I just hope some short term solutions and be spun out soon.
85 Human Paladin
4785
I've said this before but I will throw it out there again. The LFR loot rules are not broken. The rules just assumed the WoW community wasn't full of douches. A socialogical experiment of what happens when you put 25 strangers together without having to worry about the consequences of their actions.


It's silly to assume people would roll need on only the items they could currently use in their current spec, in LFR when they didn't do it in LFD.

There has to be a check.

12/09/2011 11:14 AMPosted by Judge
What they need to do is ban people like this, sure there will be a lot of tickets going in the first couple weeks, but after maybe a month of it, you'll see the amount of times this happens decrease by a lot.


You can't really ban people for rolling need on something when you're the one giving them the option.
86 Tauren Shaman
0
I can't see myself doing LFR again (at all) until there's some kind of fix.

It was great for learning the basic fight mechanics and linking the achievement to people who care for pug purposes, but with all the extra +Need rolls that should not be there, there's basically no chance of loot for me, and it isn't that much of an upgrade from 5 mans anyway.

I hope the current loot issues don't persist too long, or it might really hurt LFR in the long term.
85 Night Elf Druid
2715
I really don't get why they could not have designed something like the Flask of Battle or the feasts have into this system.

The flask and food detect your stats and picks the highest. That's what the new loot system should have done. That way it looks at an Strength one hander (with an ON MELEE proc), looks at the dks and warriors rolling on it, says "Yep Str is your highest stat" +100. Meanwhile it looks at the hunters and rogues and druids and says "Nope Str is NOT your highest stat", no bonus.

Sigh...
20 Blood Elf Warrior
70
I've said this before but I will throw it out there again. The LFR loot rules are not broken. The rules just assumed the WoW community wasn't full of douches. A socialogical experiment of what happens when you put 25 strangers together without having to worry about the consequences of their actions.

What they need to do is ban people like this, sure there will be a lot of tickets going in the first couple weeks, but after maybe a month of it, you'll see the amount of times this happens decrease by a lot.


It's broken when a tank can roll on dps loot (not even for his own primary stat type at that).


This. It happened to one of my toons. Made me sad, and angry. Like seriously? It wasn't even something he'd ever use. Blah.
85 Orc Warlock
4555
my only problem with the system is that when you kill a boss on LFR recieving Gold counts as ur loot for the boss, so if nothing for you class drops (i.e. your a priest and nothing but plate drops and/or hunter, warrior, shaman token drops) you pass on it and still get locked to boss that didnt have loot for you


I think this is the wrong mindset when approaching LFR. This is not LFD heroics, it is a raid. And just like a raid, you get a chance for loot at each boss, but no guarantee. It feels a little more painful to watch your loot go to another player in LFR because unlike a guild run, your "team" is not benefiting from the drop no matter what. There is no team after the raid ends. Nevertheless, the system is based on the raid concept and, IMO, it meets the mark.

@OP: Blizz has done a fine job in creating a system that most of the time gets the right loot to the right toons. It sounds like they are working to improve it more, but I personally applaud their efforts to date. The fact that they created a whole new tier of raiding for casual players to experience end game content is simply amazing. Now each boss has three levels of difficulty and loot that must be balanced with normals/HMs. As a raider it has been nice to preview content in LFR before doing our guild runs and has helped some of the lazier raiders by saving them from watching strat videos before raid time.

The flip side is that the LFR/LFD systems are completely eroding everything that what was once great about this game. No more community of players on servers and no more accountability when you PUG. Its a free for all now and players are allowed to be as rude or ill prepared as they like because they will never see you again. I miss my vanilla where I knew most of the toons on my server. I knew who not group with and who was the expert on how to get through certain raid mechanics. Now it is just a bunch of toons running around waiting for a q to pop.
Edited by Sitgarath on 12/9/2011 12:02 PM PST
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