LFR loot rules are totally broken

85 Orc Shaman
12530
To Obsolition:

There are some who just roll need when the need button is available without even looking closely at what the item is. Sort of a "reflex" action, just like those who vote yes when a vote kick is offered without even looking at who is being kicked or the reason why.


To Destruction:

You are a jerk and the epitome of everything wrong with player attitudes in this game.

Just because you can do something doesn't mean you should.


This is a response to all the people who think they deserve something they can not attain with out a carry me mode. This entitlement is all because they pay 15 bucks a month and think they deserve something.

IMO: If this game is hard and you can't do it on normal, then maybe you need to drop kick your computer to the curb. This game is NOT tough or even hard sub Heroic Modes and even then it really isn't. I pugged 7/8 on my main last night with only a few wipes on Ultrax due to inept players not able to hit a big button on their screen at the right time.

I play maybe 4 hours a week so don't cry me that casual line. I am more casual than most, the fact is that you maybe just are not meant to play video games. That is fine.. we all have niches.. maybe this just isn't yours. I would suggest finding something that caters more to your skills.

P.S. I will usually trade the item to someone pulling their weight.. But if a "useless" wants it.. I consider it a "Carry Me" tax.


Actually this game is incredibly difficult. Just think of all the stats that exist, the different ways they effect your play, the different caps you need to hit, and how they all work with each other. That's just what you need to know before you figure out your rotation. The issue isn't really about how hard the content but whether or not the loot system is fair. Which it isn't because of players that can be like you and roll on things that are near useless. I'm glad that the system in MoP will be fixed.
90 Goblin Shaman
8435
12/08/2011 03:50 PMPosted by Trogdoroth
They said that they don't have a system to track class and spec atm, and can only do it by your role (dps/tank/healer). They did say that in MoP that a system to track class and spec would be implemented I believe.


They say this...but I'm still slightly confused about it. In LFG, there are lots of items I cannot roll on because they do not benefit me (plate, leather, cloth, etc). I'm also fairly certain (it's been a while mind you) that there are items with strength on them I can't roll on (besides swords).

How hard is it to track MAIN stats? That's all they really have to go off of (aside from role in group).
85 Orc Warlock
4150

Interesting, considering you look more the type to be getting carried than doing the carrying.


Oh you mean the fact I have a 5 box shaman team I use to PVP with? Cause people raid with 5 boxxed toons...

Sigh, poor people and their education levels. Isn't speculation great...

/yawn /thread /waffles

I'd buy the 5 boxxed shaman thing if you could gem and enchant ONE shaman properly.
90 Dwarf Hunter
16880
Working as sadly intended.


Fixed
85 Human Warrior
7000
I'm fine with people winning off spec.

I'm not fine with str classes being able to roll need on agility items, vice versa, and shamans rolling need on tank trinkets
90 Tauren Shaman
1855



This is a response to all the people who think they deserve something they can not attain with out a carry me mode. This entitlement is all because they pay 15 bucks a month and think they deserve something.

IMO: If this game is hard and you can't do it on normal, then maybe you need to drop kick your computer to the curb. This game is NOT tough or even hard sub Heroic Modes and even then it really isn't. I pugged 7/8 on my main last night with only a few wipes on Ultrax due to inept players not able to hit a big button on their screen at the right time.

I play maybe 4 hours a week so don't cry me that casual line. I am more casual than most, the fact is that you maybe just are not meant to play video games. That is fine.. we all have niches.. maybe this just isn't yours. I would suggest finding something that caters more to your skills.

P.S. I will usually trade the item to someone pulling their weight.. But if a "useless" wants it.. I consider it a "Carry Me" tax.


Actually this game is incredibly difficult. Just think of all the stats that exist, the different ways they effect your play, the different caps you need to hit, and how they all work with each other. That's just what you need to know before you figure out your rotation. The issue isn't really about how hard the content but whether or not the loot system is fair. Which it isn't because of players that can be like you and roll on things that are near useless. I'm glad that the system in MoP will be fixed.


Elitest Jerks and Other sites can tell you EXACTLY what you need. It is where I go before I go anywhere. I get my spec and look for the caps I need to hit. I then go download the addons I need for that class/spec to make my life easy. After all of the out of game stuff is down I go to a dummy and get my rotation down (Managing Debuffs /Buffs / Spell Rotation). This takes a few hours of my time but by the end I gem and rotate well. Granted I am never perfect.

The problem is people are lazy or stupid or both. They refuse to do any work out of the game to make it better for themselves and everyone else. This game is not difficult. The hardest part of this game is to wade through the 80% of the population who are knuckle draggers to get a decent group together.



Oh you mean the fact I have a 5 box shaman team I use to PVP with? Cause people raid with 5 boxxed toons...

Sigh, poor people and their education levels. Isn't speculation great...

/yawn /thread /waffles

I'd buy the 5 boxxed shaman thing if you could gem and enchant ONE shaman properly.


These were old shaman who i decided to re activate, which I am letting allow to lapse again. I did not really care about gemming or gearing them properly. I just wanted to try it out again. I am surprised you did not notice the huge glaring problem with my build or my gear especially. It is fairly obvious I do not take PVP or 5boxxing all that seriously. I got em geared in a weekend and really have not done much else with them except sit AFK in LFR and roll need on gear for giggles.
Edited by Ðestructîon on 12/8/2011 4:23 PM PST
90 Goblin Shaman
8435
They will never distro loot based on spec. If this were the case, you would have a lot more players angry with warriors queing as tank in all dps gear because they need to work on their tanking set.

Loot distro will never consider spec. Players want to be viable in any scenario. Limiting them on rolling for dps only items cripples their chances of ever gearing a separate spec.

If a warrior tank rolls and wins the 2 handed axe you needed for your dk it's within his right.

The only thing I can agree with is the itemization of stats and classes. Which I think they've done well for the most part. Hunters rolling on str items is a bit wonky but overall the system is working fine.


You know, I kind it find it amusing that this argument almost NEVER come up before dual spec was introduced. The only time offspec looting was even allowed in the "old days" was when no one else needed it. Now it's "for my offspec or my off-offspec"- forget the people that can actually use the upgrade.
85 Orc Shaman
12530


Actually this game is incredibly difficult. Just think of all the stats that exist, the different ways they effect your play, the different caps you need to hit, and how they all work with each other. That's just what you need to know before you figure out your rotation. The issue isn't really about how hard the content but whether or not the loot system is fair. Which it isn't because of players that can be like you and roll on things that are near useless. I'm glad that the system in MoP will be fixed.


Elitest Jerks and Other sites can tell you EXACTLY what you need. It is where I go before I go anywhere. I get my spec and look for the caps I need to hit. I then go download the addons I need for that class/spec to make my life easy. After all of the out of game stuff is down I go to a dummy and get my rotation down (Managing Debuffs /Buffs / Spell Rotation). This takes a few hours of my time but by the end I gem and rotate well. Granted I am never perfect.

The problem is people are lazy or stupid or both. They refuse to do any work out of the game to make it better for themselves and everyone else. This game is not difficult. The hardest part of this game is to wade through the 80% of the population who are knuckle draggers to get a decent group together.


To figure those things out is, in fact, incredibly difficult. For you it might not be, but for others at different skill levels it is. For a new player what would tell them to go to those sites? Why should they even have to go to those sites? The fact that sites like those exist actually shows just how hard this game is, especially when you need math formulas to figure out what is best to do.
90 Goblin Shaman
8435
Maybe they need to just dumb things down a little more:

Tank
melee dps
Magical dps
Ranged dps
Healer/ spirit using dps

AND then dumb it down even more to where it reads what your highest main stat is (stamina for tanks, agility for rogues/hunters/enchance shammies etc). We already know there are trinkets that proc with whatever your highest stat is.
Edited by Jujubiju on 12/8/2011 4:30 PM PST
90 Tauren Shaman
1855
12/08/2011 04:25 PMPosted by Trogdoroth
To figure those things out is, in fact, incredibly difficult. For you it might not be, but for others at different skill levels it is. For a new player what would tell them to go to those sites? Why should they even have to go to those sites? The fact that sites like those exist actually shows just how hard this game is, especially when you need math formulas to figure out what is best to do.


The game isn't hard.. it is just designed poorly in that respect. They rely on the community to do things for the community and did not bother to program in gates for people to access content. They did nothing to force people to learn how to play their class. They catered to the majority who want stuff handed to them. This left the community to do the games job. After 7 years a majority of the vets in the community are burnt out on teaching others. Yes, sometimes we try to help people, but the truth of the matter is, the ease of this game has attracted a bad element who chastise you for helping. These are the people who want it handed to them instead of worked for. People who feel entitled and obviously know better than you with their 7k dps. This community is trash. It is actualyl beyond trash. It is BY FAR THE WORST COMMUNITY OF ANY GAME I HAVE EVER PLAYED.

I actually like the honor NBG system when people are actually held accountable. Everquest and early WoW people were held accountable for their actions. The game was rough, it had a serious learning curve, it took awhile to level to 60. In short it kept a majority of the bads out. This is when the NBG system worked. Everyone knew each other and the community was not able to be policed by the community. Blizztard then introduced cross realm things, name changes, faction changes, server xfers and done all in the interest of their pocketbook and not the playerbase. This is where the servers took a serious turn for the worst.

There was no longer accountability to other servers or your own. Ninja an item.. no big deal.. Blizzard doesn't police and a name change is only 10 bucks away. Made a terrible rep for youself on your server... Move servers.. not even a problem anymore. They really sunk their game with corporate greed. I understand the want to become profitable, but they left a cesspool of a game in their wake. This community is so vile, I welcome SWToR. Not because it is a better game... but its difficulty will keep the idiots out.

To Zahrym: A user of a bot program for this game designed a weighted loot system in roughly 4,000 lines of code. This person is not overly proficient at programming. Why is it that someone who lacks skills can do something your devs can not or have not been able to do since LFD came out? It is a simple weighted system based on class spec.

There is also an addon that can determine your spec and roll need on items that are an upgrade for you: http://wow.curseforge.com/addons/smartloot/ How is it that these people can make this and the games devs can't implement something like this?

You are tossing out a line of bs bro. Defining a loot system weight set is not difficult at all, it just isn't high on the priority list because it doesn't retain, gain or lose a lot of customers. Lets just be honest about it and call it what it is.
Edited by Ðestructîon on 12/8/2011 5:59 PM PST
Community Manager
Hey folks,

So, just to be clear, we're certainly aware that the loot system in Raid Finder needs to be smarter, as there's currently not a way for the system to determine loot eligibility based on talent specialization or class. To use the OP's example, if a Strength weapon drops and a hunter rolls on it, the system says "Yep, a DPS player is rolling on it. Okie dokie. Here's your +100." (We should really find ways for the game to say "okie dokie" in your chat log.)

This obviously needs to change and we're in the middle of discussing potential short-term solutions, as a more long-term solution will require programming new tech into the system which will account for class/spec.

We only ask that you keep in mind patch 4.3 is our first implementation of Raid Finder and the "Need Plus" system. The design is quite complicated and requires further iteration to make loot distribution more intelligent.
90 Gnome Warrior
12355
If you could, get the guy who voiced Falric in HoR to say "okie dokie" instead of a simple chat message.
Edited by Ro on 12/8/2011 5:06 PM PST
90 Night Elf Warrior
15435
Thanks Zar. I've seen hunters taking strength weapons, laughing, then get kicked from raids. It's not fun and things like that can lead to players not wanting to do the LFR.
90 Blood Elf Paladin
14965
Thanks for keeping on this Zarhym! I know you guys will think of a more elegant solution.

It is very frustrating, though, when my hunter loses the obvious hunter bow DW drops to a warrior, though. :(
85 Night Elf Druid
7735
I apprieciate your fast reponse Zarhym. And I understand that its going to take time to perfect something that is ground breaking for world of warcraft. I really see raid finder turning into something very entertaining for the solo player like myself. Again thank you for the fast response.
85 Goblin Death Knight
3575
Hey folks,

So, just to be clear, we're certainly aware that the loot system in Raid Finder needs to be smarter, as there's currently not a way for the system to determine loot eligibility based on talent specialization or class. To use the OP's example, if a Strength weapon drops and a hunter rolls on it, the system says "Yep, a DPS player is rolling on it. Okie dokie. Here's your +100." (We should really find ways for the game to say "okie dokie" in your chat log.)

This obviously needs to change and we're in the middle of discussing potential short-term solutions, as a more long-term solution will require programming new tech into the system which will account for class/spec.

We only ask that you keep in mind patch 4.3 is our first implementation of Raid Finder and the "Need Plus" system. The design is quite complicated and requires further iteration to make loot distribution more intelligent.


I'm glad we're at least getting acknowledgement on this major issue. Hopefully it is fixed soon and not Soon (TM).
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