LFR loot rules are totally broken

85 Human Paladin
5415
12/08/2011 03:27 PMPosted by Catnose
Working as intended.


Seriously? I queued as tank ONLY tonight. After killing DW, a 2H sword dropped and the need option popped up. I needed on it for my off-set thinking that if a true DPS needed it, they would get the role bonus and I would not. To my surprise, I got the role bonus. I didn't win it, thankfully. A ret pally won it. I just don't think the loot role bonus is working properly when a Pally Tank can get the role bonus on a 2H weapon.

I would like to see the devs do a little more tweaking on how the system classifies who gets a role bonus on items in LFR.
85 Tauren Warrior
12115
What perplexes me about this system is that this was never really a problem in 5-mans, people tended to not roll on stuff they couldn't use. But in the new lfr there's dozens of morons that keep rolling on gear they can't use, after doing lfr on 3 different chars this week, I saw this happen at least 3 or 4 times, though it usually takes at least 20 or so dungeon runs before someone does it in a 5-man.
90 Human Warrior
16790
Seriously? I queued as tank ONLY tonight. After killing DW, a 2H sword dropped and the need option popped up. I needed on it for my off-set thinking that if a true DPS needed it, they would get the role bonus and I would not. To my surprise, I got the role bonus. I didn't win it, thankfully. A ret pally won it. I just don't think the loot role bonus is working properly when a Pally Tank can get the role bonus on a 2H weapon.

I would like to see the devs do a little more tweaking on how the system classifies who gets a role bonus on items in LFR.


Blood DK = Tank
Blood DK = 2Hers
Tank = 2Hers

It's dumb, but it's the same reason Boomkins get role bonuses on agil gear.

DPS Trinket? Check
DPS Role? Check
+100 for you brah!
85 Troll Mage
12470
I worked out different loot categories in Notepad once. The only hard case is 2h str weapons that a DK might use for tanking. I went with if it's mastery + hit/expertise it's a tank weapon, if it has none of those stats it's a dps weapon, if it has some combination it's both tank and dps. That's arbitrary, but it was really the only weird case; the others were easy.

I guess trinkets and other proc items are a pain and need to be individually flagged; oh well.

Technically all 2H STR weapons are DK tank weapons. There should be no delineation.

If you had to say "technically", then there's room to disagree, and I disagree. If a str weapon has no tanking stats, the DK either isn't going to use it, is making a mistake by using it, or will replace it in 2 days. It's the same case as mages and Spirit gear. Let them roll, but they don't deserve the role bonus.
So tonight we have 2 plate classes winning agi items.

the first was a dk that won an agi trinket (with a role bonus no less)
Then the Warrior tank that won the agi polearm?

I get popups all the time as my hunter to roll on strength trinks. WHA?ATA>?

seriously people? This isn't rocket science. DK != agi. Hunter != str. Fix the loot rules.


I had a fury warrior roll need for an agility polearm on the last boss, and win it, screwing 3 feral druids, 3 hunters out of the item.

And a boomkin rolled need on a dagger, screwing 3 rogues out of the item.

Obvious unpolished system was put in place with out much thought.
85 Blood Elf Hunter
10695
12/08/2011 06:38 PMPosted by Zarhym
What about the issue where DPS are getting the +100 roll on spirit gear, which should have obviously been marked for the healing role?

You pointed out the reason in the rest of your post. Technically, it's the same issue as the example I covered with hunters rolling on a two-handed Strength weapons. Spirit is a DPS stat for some classes which, therefore, means items with Spirit are flagged for healing and DPS. This is exactly what I mean by the system needing to be more intelligent.


Which basically gives healers and hybrid casters an edge over pure dps casters. That's just wrong!

And in LFR a few minutes ago a hunter won a one handed tank weapon. So clearly, loot is not just being distributed according to "roles". This system is so broken and is not even remotely close to being fair. I honestly can't believe Blizz allowed it to reach live servers in this state. It's terrible!
90 Blood Elf Warrior
9195
12/10/2011 12:40 AMPosted by Sesamee
And in LFR a few minutes ago a hunter won a one handed tank weapon. So clearly, loot is not just being distributed according to "roles". This system is so broken and is not even remotely close to being fair. I honestly can't believe Blizz allowed it to reach live servers in this state. It's terrible!

Yep. I'm not sure that I'd set foot in LFR on my main without, at the very least, my rogue and hunter friends with me. Between us we can roll on nearly all the weapons and distribute them properly if we get them, since Blizzard couldn't be bothered to spend any effort on making a fair loot distribution method themselves.
90 Human Mage
18015
12/08/2011 06:38 PMPosted by Zarhym
What about the issue where DPS are getting the +100 roll on spirit gear, which should have obviously been marked for the healing role?

You pointed out the reason in the rest of your post. Technically, it's the same issue as the example I covered with hunters rolling on a two-handed Strength weapons. Spirit is a DPS stat for some classes which, therefore, means items with Spirit are flagged for healing and DPS. This is exactly what I mean by the system needing to be more intelligent.
No, just no. The solution to this is to not mark spirit gear as dps gear. It's bad enough that dps specs who happen to have the ability to heal in another spec get almost twice as much choice on gear.

You are clearly forgetting 1 thing, the talent that's there to turn spirit into hit is there as a convenience, so that people who switch from healing spec can use some of their healing gear to dps. It is not there to give dps specs extra loot rolls, so you shouldn't be giving them extra loot rolls because of it. Otherwise, why not just abolish spirit and hit and make 1 unified stat that does both? It sounds bloody ridiculous, but at least then it would be fair for all.
Edited by Larwood on 12/10/2011 2:05 AM PST
89 Human Mage
10935
I have an idea for all you at Blizz, why not start by making certin look for certin classes till you can figure out how to make the LFR loot system smarter like the trinkets from LFR and weapons off deathwing. you did it for Vanilla WoW and Burning Crusade why not do it now? because this is getting really tiresome that a feral druid can roll on the Intell/haste trinket..and rogues and warriors can roll on the bow from deathwing just to tick people off.
Sad this whole loot thing really. It seems to have spilled over into the LFD system too now for I have lost the tank weapon and shoulders (holy low drop rate batman considering you're starving for more tanks) from the new dungeons now everytime to dps classes needing them (and sometimes leaving immediately) and there comes a point where enough is enough.

I get infuriated to a point where I dont wanna play anymore and since these new dungeons are stopping me from progressing I guess Ill just stop playing as to not get mad anymore. Thx Blizzard & YW for all the $ i've poured into your vaults. Come on, you know many dbags play this game so why you would even implement a loot system such as this one into the game is beyond me.
Edited by Juuls on 12/10/2011 2:56 AM PST
100 Night Elf Druid
22960
I roll Need on anything that pops up with a Need option. I feel no guilt over this. I do this on my alts as well as my main.

I had my lovely paladin tank that I had never met before win the polearm that I am wielding and give it to me. On my boomkin, I won the spirit neck off of Morchok, checked its stats in my spread sheet and gave it to the resto shammy that rolled second when we landed for Yor'sahj.

The system is far from perfect, and certainly some gear goes places it really shouldn't. However, you know what the system is going into the raid. If you speak courteously to others instead of nerd raging when the paladin tank wins the agi polearm (I actually congratulated him quite sincerely...he had a terribad 333 blue weapon for his ret set), sometimes they do nice things for you. The resto shaman that I gave the neck to for his ele set kept whispering me with 'are you sure?'

Relax, treat others like they are sitting at a computer right next to you, and recognize that the pretty purple pixels will be there another day too.

LFR is a nice way for everyone to see the pretty cinematics...though I really don't know how we got from Deathwing's spine to those rocks without being fried by Thrall...

If you are really super serious about the gear, put together a normal raid and deal with the mechanics being harder.
90 Human Mage
18015
Sad this whole loot thing really. It seems to have spilled over into the LFD system too now for I have lost the tank weapon and shoulders (holy low drop rate batman considering you're starving for more tanks) from the new dungeons now everytime to dps classes needing them (and sometimes leaving immediately) and there comes a point where enough is enough.

I get infuriated to a point where I dont wanna play anymore and since these new dungeons are stopping me from progressing I guess Ill just stop playing as to not get mad anymore. Thx Blizzard & YW for all the $ i've poured into your vaults. Come on, you know many dbags play this game so why you would even implement a loot system such as this one into the game is beyond me.
I have 2 questions for you:

1) People have been needing on offspec loot since dungeon finder came in. How has this new system got anything at all to do with that?

2) Everybody in the group contributed to the kill, loot dropped, and people who wanted the loot needed on it. Why do you think you're so special that you need priority just because you want it?
1 Human Warrior
0
I agree its all screwed up. If the system cant detect class/spec, then the items should be class restricted. An agi trinket should say Class: Rogue, Druid, Hunter, Shaman, etc
85 Tauren Druid
5780
ok I read a couple posts about spirit being only for healers. I think every person who thinks this, is near sited. ASIDE from tier gear. I want every person who says spirit is for healers to find 2 dif types of gear please.

1) find leather caster gear with hit rating.

2) find mail caster gear with hit rating.

yes with clothies its much easier to say spi. is for healers only but thats because theres cloth with hit rating. druids and shamans are at a loss. the spi. going into hit allowed those 2 class's to finally find some gear.

I'm an ex-boomkin. I'd say 75% or more of my gems were hit ratings because no gear ever had hit.

I know this isn't the best place to put this post but just skimming through this I saw maybe 8 or 9 ppl saying spi. is healers only. imagine if all your gear had spi. and nothing had hit. your DPS role would be invalid all together
100 Night Elf Warrior
12865
My take is that LFR should not handle loot in the traditional sense, because all of the problems it entails. Even if the system were smart enough to detect class/spec, there are still some problems such as guildies rolling Need on items they don't need (so they can give it to another guildie in the raid when they win) or people leaving the raid just because there are too many people of their class/spec and don't want to waste their boss kill when they probably won't get anything.

If a guild gets screwed over on loot drops because of the classes they brought, that's one thing. They chose who to bring. In LFR when you don't choose the raid, it seems annoying that your chances of getting loot are impacted by the number of other people of your class/spec (or sharing your tier tokens).

LFR looting should be entirely an individual affair. When you queue for a battleground, you don't have to worry that someone will take the rewards that you deserve. The same should apply here. Instead, when you kill Morchok, everyone gets to loot one item. You have a 20% chance of getting a token that you can turn in for any item from Morchok's loot table. The other 80% of the time you get an item that gets some valor. Thus, every boss still drops an average of 5 pieces of loot, but you have the same chance of getting that loot regardless of who is in the raid, and you always get the loot that you want when you win it.

If you already have loot from a boss and win the token, you could trade it to another person for their VP token they looted, or wait until the end and try to trade it for another boss token.
85 Human Death Knight
4325
One thing I'd love to see addressed is for example on madness, if 2x the same weapon drops, it would be nice if there was a way that both drops didn't go to the same person.

We recognize the issue with duplicate drops being won by the same person as well. This is something we need to fix.


As long as it's not on weapons. Keep Dual wielding classes in mind.

Also might want to not include that in tier, as any hybrid spec may use for a different gear set. But in that case, I'd say remove the +100 on the second roll, IF the first tier is won. I can't see that happening, though because then it'd have to link loot rolls.

Please only restrict this to non-tier armor and non-weapons.
Edited by Throebane on 12/10/2011 8:56 AM PST
85 Troll Shaman
5685
12/10/2011 02:04 AMPosted by Larwood

You pointed out the reason in the rest of your post. Technically, it's the same issue as the example I covered with hunters rolling on a two-handed Strength weapons. Spirit is a DPS stat for some classes which, therefore, means items with Spirit are flagged for healing and DPS. This is exactly what I mean by the system needing to be more intelligent.
No, just no. The solution to this is to not mark spirit gear as dps gear. It's bad enough that dps specs who happen to have the ability to heal in another spec get almost twice as much choice on gear.

You are clearly forgetting 1 thing, the talent that's there to turn spirit into hit is there as a convenience, so that people who switch from healing spec can use some of their healing gear to dps. It is not there to give dps specs extra loot rolls, so you shouldn't be giving them extra loot rolls because of it. Otherwise, why not just abolish spirit and hit and make 1 unified stat that does both? It sounds bloody ridiculous, but at least then it would be fair for all.


this.
100 Human Paladin
17390
12/09/2011 09:09 AMPosted by Stubb
No winning multiple items is strictly just good luck. If you successfully filter an items eligibility and limit the number of times a certain player in a given spec can acquire that item (on need roll), then the problem will slowly be resolved.


It would if you were running it with the same 25 people every week like a guild does. With LFR though there will always be new players, new alts, re-subs coming in to compete for loot. Without a tweek to reduce winning multiple items per run some people will end up going months without winning anything.
100 Night Elf Hunter
14625
Im glad they recognize the major issues here - very encouraging.
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