LFR loot rules are totally broken

90 Night Elf Hunter
13220
Also making LFR loot untradeable seems like a no-brainer, once the other fixes are in place.
92 Blood Elf Paladin
15285
Love how hunters, rogues, and druids can roll on str gear and get a roll bonus, while warriors, dks, and paladins can roll on agility gear and get the roll bonus, but yet shadow priests do not get a roll bonus for the Signet of Suturing ... such jokes. I'm assuming anything with spirit is tagged as healer only so ele shaman, spriests, and boomkins are all getting the shaft.

Thanks blizz, I really appreciate it.

I'm hoping you can detect the heavy sarcasm.
100 Goblin Shaman
8740
1) People have been needing on offspec loot since dungeon finder came in. How has this new system got anything at all to do with that?

2) Everybody in the group contributed to the kill, loot dropped, and people who wanted the loot needed on it. Why do you think you're so special that you need priority just because you want it?


1) A rogue/hunter/shammy rolling "offspec" on a STRENGTH stated item is clearly not rolling for offspec. This behavior has escalated to a wider- more noticeable scale in the LFR due to there being more people. Before LFD even existed it was never acceptable to roll for offspec unless no one needed the gear (it's even like that in realm pug's). But, ever since towards the end of Wrath/beginning of Cata, people stopped caring about what was considered acceptable behavior because there's no accountability in the LFG (and now the LFR).

2) See number 1. People rolling offspec in BRAND NEW content is ridiculous; honestly, give it a month or two before you pull the offspec rolls. There are people gearing up their MAIN spec. That was Blizzards original intent with the role bonus- so people couldn't pull the "rolling for offspec" crud we've been seeing.
Edited by Jujubiju on 12/10/2011 10:44 AM PST
90 Worgen Druid
9190
Hey folks,

So, just to be clear, we're certainly aware that the loot system in Raid Finder needs to be smarter, as there's currently not a way for the system to determine loot eligibility based on talent specialization or class. To use the OP's example, if a Strength weapon drops and a hunter rolls on it, the system says "Yep, a DPS player is rolling on it. Okie dokie. Here's your +100." (We should really find ways for the game to say "okie dokie" in your chat log.)

This obviously needs to change and we're in the middle of discussing potential short-term solutions, as a more long-term solution will require programming new tech into the system which will account for class/spec.

We only ask that you keep in mind patch 4.3 is our first implementation of Raid Finder and the "Need Plus" system. The design is quite complicated and requires further iteration to make loot distribution more intelligent.




You guys are morons. WTF was the PTR for, if not to fix the bugs. You get a disgusting amount of money from your clients and cant't even provide a stable game.
85 Orc Rogue
6960
This system is extremely flawed.

I just finished a LFR Deathwing kill. I know the encounter, I knew it without anyone from the raid having to give instructions. That being said, upon switching from Ysera to Alex I threw some dps (very minor dps, btw, like 1 SS) on Noz's platform, just to keep all of my stacks up from my trinkets/weapons/etc. This sent the raid leader into such a blind rage, that after we downed the boss (and I explained why I was doing this) he instructed everyone to roll need on the two "rogue" items that dropped (two elements of death). Not a huge deal because I don't believe they were upgrades and even if they were, whatever. But this is a prime example of some jerk attempting to exploit the drops from a casual encounter simply because he can. What's worse is that people seemed to listen to him, I'm fairly certain that everyone who COULD roll need, did.

A hunter and a dk won both of the axes.

(side note, I did 52 mil, the next closest dps did 44 mil, so I certainly deserved the loot had I actually needed it).
Edited by Robk on 12/10/2011 10:54 AM PST
90 Blood Elf Warrior
9195
12/10/2011 10:43 AMPosted by Shagmoth
You guys are morons. WTF was the PTR for, if not to fix the bugs. You get a disgusting amount of money from your clients and cant't even provide a stable game.

We didn't even need the PTR to tell them that this was going to be a disaster. As soon as LFR was announced there were numerous posts explaining how terrible the loot system already was and how much of a trainwreck it would be once 25 strangers (or 15 strangers and 10 guildies) got involved.

They just didn't care enough to do it right the first time around.
100 Tauren Druid
17085
Love how hunters, rogues, and druids can roll on str gear and get a roll bonus, while warriors, dks, and paladins can roll on agility gear and get the roll bonus, but yet shadow priests do not get a roll bonus for the Signet of Suturing ... such jokes. I'm assuming anything with spirit is tagged as healer only so ele shaman, spriests, and boomkins are all getting the shaft.

Thanks blizz, I really appreciate it.

I'm hoping you can detect the heavy sarcasm.


I personally have not done the raid finder yet, but I have both a druid and a priest, hybrid classes who would find the ring linked above beneficial to both healing and dps specs. I would be extremely disappointed if my shadow priest could only roll on that ring if I chose to go to the Raid Finder as a healer. The Raid Finder is not going to be a very useful tool if I have to run it twice over, first as dps and then as healing just to get all the pieces I might need.

Clearly the raid finder needs to be able to determine the class as well as the current role, and hopefully differentiate between physical dps vs caster dps. Hybrid casters who utilize spirit as hit should be able to roll on "healing" gear. Druids don't even HAVE any caster leather with hit on it, so I would certainly hope they get to roll on any caster leather or caster items if they are Balance or Resto.

The only caster restriction I see that makes sense is that if you are there as a healer, you are restricted from Hit gear. Otherwise caster gear should be fair game to any caster.
Hey folks,

So, just to be clear, we're certainly aware that the loot system in Raid Finder needs to be smarter, as there's currently not a way for the system to determine loot eligibility based on talent specialization or class. To use the OP's example, if a Strength weapon drops and a hunter rolls on it, the system says "Yep, a DPS player is rolling on it. Okie dokie. Here's your +100." (We should really find ways for the game to say "okie dokie" in your chat log.)

This obviously needs to change and we're in the middle of discussing potential short-term solutions, as a more long-term solution will require programming new tech into the system which will account for class/spec.

We only ask that you keep in mind patch 4.3 is our first implementation of Raid Finder and the "Need Plus" system. The design is quite complicated and requires further iteration to make loot distribution more intelligent.


It might be more fun to create an attunement quest chain for the LFR sysem that teaches players how to roll for their class's items. Example: You much choose between one of three items on your warrior: nothing , Agi trinket, Agi Staff --- *picks Agi trinket* --- character dies and must walk all the way across Azeroth to get his body back, then is left immobile in a chair and forced sit and listen to some sort of creed (with audible component) about how to know when to press the "need" button.

Anybody that has problems with these attunement quests will not find much support when he visits the forums to complain about them.
100 Troll Hunter
12730
I got an in game reply to a similar situation.
They are aware of
1) items disappear - are not awarded with roll
2) people can win two of the same item from one boss (tier tokens)
3) people can need items they have already own (not considered a problem even though item is unique equip)
4) people can need secondary items for their class/spec i.e. a rogue can win an agility bow over a hunter (not considered a problem)

There are quite a few posts on fair fixes for these, we just have to wait and see.
85 Night Elf Druid
2715
12/10/2011 11:00 AMPosted by Verz
You guys are morons. WTF was the PTR for, if not to fix the bugs. You get a disgusting amount of money from your clients and cant't even provide a stable game.

We didn't even need the PTR to tell them that this was going to be a disaster. As soon as LFR was announced there were numerous posts explaining how terrible the loot system already was and how much of a trainwreck it would be once 25 strangers (or 15 strangers and 10 guildies) got involved.

They just didn't care enough to do it right the first time around.


QFT. Yep I remember the posts about how terrible their loot system was too, and how 5 people get along better than 25, so you're more likely to see people rolling need on stuff for them. And did they listen? Nope. Patch was too far in development to fix the underlying problems of need before greed if they needed to release first week of december.

So instead of doing it right the first time around, let's hope their short-term fix can keep enough players around to see how they do it the second time around in Mists.

(Oh and btw, awesome code to that one guy who had that long block of it. Maybe they can hire you to code for them :D)
100 Troll Hunter
12730
12/08/2011 05:00 PMPosted by Zarhym
We only ask that you keep in mind patch 4.3 is our first implementation of Raid Finder and the "Need Plus" system. The design is quite complicated and requires further iteration to make loot distribution more intelligent.


Hate to point out the obvious, but loot systems are pervasive in WoW. You only have to ask a few higher level guilds how they do it to retain the better players and program it.
There are some stupid easy things to implement:
1) if someone has a unique/equip item they get no plus to roll on another.
2) only one item per boss gets a plus to roll, or do the real fix where a boss cannot drop two of the same item
3) realize RNG may not be fair or fun, just easy to program
90 Blood Elf Hunter
11430
12/08/2011 03:36 PMPosted by Solaru
Nothing to fix here OP. It works just like LFD.


which is broken in the respect that if its not a main stat for your class you shouldnt be able to roll it
85 Tauren Warrior
14960
On my spriest I rolled need on a spirit/haste offhand, no bonus...went to healer
88 Tauren Druid
9815
FIX this Blizzard, DK rolled on the agi polearm from DW and won it. lets just say his vendor spec was very happy.
Been doing LFR alot in the last few days on my toons and this is happening more and more now that people are getting wind of what everyone is doing.
5 Troll Warrior
0
Hey folks,

So, just to be clear, we're certainly aware that the loot system in Raid Finder needs to be smarter, as there's currently not a way for the system to determine loot eligibility based on talent specialization or class. To use the OP's example, if a Strength weapon drops and a hunter rolls on it, the system says "Yep, a DPS player is rolling on it. Okie dokie. Here's your +100." (We should really find ways for the game to say "okie dokie" in your chat log.)

This obviously needs to change and we're in the middle of discussing potential short-term solutions, as a more long-term solution will require programming new tech into the system which will account for class/spec.

We only ask that you keep in mind patch 4.3 is our first implementation of Raid Finder and the "Need Plus" system. The design is quite complicated and requires further iteration to make loot distribution more intelligent.

The question is: "why can a hunter even roll need on a strength weapon in the first place?" Just like my DK can't roll need on an intellect necklace or agility ring, the system should already be able to understand that the Hunter class has no reason to be able to roll need on something with strength.

Even without being able to look at current talent spec, don't you already have the means with the current systems to prevent a lot of these problems people are running into?
Edited by Nicetroll on 12/10/2011 1:17 PM PST
90 Undead Warrior
8140
Please just tell me how the two handed sword of DW was flagged for being a Blood DK item.

It has no mastery and no dodge and no parry. Taking a pvp weapon and reforging the crit on it for mastery would grant a ridiculously larger benefit. I had my voice of the deeps taken by a blood DK who was using a axe with mastery on it that was a significantly better tank item.

The voice of the deeps must be one you purposely flagged to grant +100 for dks. Why did you do that? Its terribad to tank with.
85 Tauren Death Knight
3800
I've been seeing the same thing in the new heroics - but of course, with 5x the people in LFR the problem is approximately 5x worse. So the healer who rolls need on the 2-hand dps weapon and then leaves group is multiplied by that many more people being able to roll need and get full bonuses for gear that is sub-optimal for the spec they're in the raid with.
90 Blood Elf Rogue
8175
Not to mention it's a 7.679% chance of getting a piece of loot from the bosses that drop 4 items. Mathematically, that's 1 item per 8 weeks x25 people for less then steller gear tbh. Just saying. But keep up the good work, i really like this patch so far. ^^
Edited by Beckha on 12/10/2011 1:28 PM PST
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