LFR loot rules are totally broken

100 Dwarf Hunter
18720
12/08/2011 06:38 PMPosted by Zarhym
What about the issue where DPS are getting the +100 roll on spirit gear, which should have obviously been marked for the healing role?

You pointed out the reason in the rest of your post. Technically, it's the same issue as the example I covered with hunters rolling on a two-handed Strength weapons. Spirit is a DPS stat for some classes which, therefore, means items with Spirit are flagged for healing and DPS. This is exactly what I mean by the system needing to be more intelligent.

So when exactly do you expect we will see this so called intelligence?
85 Orc Mage
11500
I need on anything and everything I can, only because everyone else does it lawl. Ive had tier tokens taken from me by someone that already had their Mainspec tier piece.
90 Draenei Shaman
13090
12/08/2011 05:00 PMPosted by Zarhym
The design is quite complicated and requires further iteration to make loot distribution more intelligent.


Glad to hear this is acknowledged, but you might want to make a fix fast because it's, unfortunately, causing small guild groups to roll on each others' drops (stuff they can't personally use) and pass it over to them, making it extremely unfair for people who que on their own or don't abuse this.
100 Orc Shaman
15510
The other night the agi axe dropped from deathwing. I need rolled on it as it was an amazing enhancement axe, and the only other class that could make use out of it would be a rogue (because of the on melee hit proc). There were no rogues or enhancement shamans in the raid, so I thought I had this nailed down.

Turned out all the hunters, dk's, and warriors need rolled on it. A dk won and said I had to pay him if I wanted it. Was very irritating to see someone scam you like this.

This happens time and time again to all sorts of people, and it definitely needs to be fixed because people are just greedy jerks when it comes down to it.
85 Draenei Paladin
2225
12/08/2011 06:38 PMPosted by Zarhym
What about the issue where DPS are getting the +100 roll on spirit gear, which should have obviously been marked for the healing role?

You pointed out the reason in the rest of your post. Technically, it's the same issue as the example I covered with hunters rolling on a two-handed Strength weapons. Spirit is a DPS stat for some classes which, therefore, means items with Spirit are flagged for healing and DPS. This is exactly what I mean by the system needing to be more intelligent.
it's okay Z. hanks for the response.

I get that this is new and it is still a work in progress. I never expected you guys to get it 100% perfect in one shot. the point is that you are starting the process and now you are molding it to work better. That is more than we can ask for considering you could have ignored us and never do this.

I look forward to seeing the improvements you all make. I know that this is only the beginning and things will get better.
85 Troll Mage
10155
I think the general sentiment here is why are long standing/reported problems being ignored by a company with arguably unlimited resources. Even disregarding the fact that any idiot could have told you problems like this would arise, was this not brought up in dev or at the latest in the first ptr builds? I don't get why blizzard can't put a few more programmers to work and fix things like this in a timely manner.
90 Human Death Knight
9765
Honestly its hard to understand how Blizz as a studio can be so good at such incredible gameplay and feats of engineering and then just kinda herp derp on simple things. Its literally like watching geniuses that can solve mysteries of the universe and then cant tie their shoes.

Plate - STR = Pally/Warrior/DK
Plate - INT = Pally
Mail - AGI = Hunter/Shaman
Mail - INT = Shaman
Leather - INT = Druid
Leather - AGI = Druid/Rogue
Cloth - ALL OPEN to Priest/Mage/Lock

All other items are open roll to classes that have a spec that can use the stat as INTENDED for their class i.e. = hunters cant roll on STR sword because while they can equip it their class does not utilize STR, just as a DK should not be able to roll on AGI polearms.

You dont even have to modify the roll system, just add a check to see if the item is flagged as class intended....then go and add a quick attribute to LFG loot that has class appropriate flags and let the system grey out the need roll for classes that dont match.

If people complain its not Blizz's fault they havent taken the time to learn the most simple facts about their class. Sometimes you have to let go of players hands in order to not punish your players who dont need the hand holding and dont appreciate being robbed of an item by someone else's ignorance.
90 Night Elf Hunter
7975
12/08/2011 06:52 PMPosted by Volms
A dk won and said I had to pay him if I wanted it. Was very irritating to see someone scam you like this.


This makes me want to stop playing.
85 Human Death Knight
9320
Fandral could figure out what spec I was, why can't the loot system?
85 Human Paladin
7790
Not only the fact that tanks can win agility gear and things like that I've heard a lot of complaints "including myself" saying that there will be one person who wins all of the gear for his class or at least 2 or so pieces, I propose that when you loose an item that you received the +100 roll bonus on that the next item that you roll on with the +100 roll bonus you get an extra +10 or so added on to your roll until you win an item then it resets to the original +100.
90 Blood Elf Paladin
10580
I don't understand what it means that they need new tech to so the game knows our spec. We click a spec. We choose it. My tooltip addon displays "Holy Paladin."
85 Gnome Death Knight
5585
Hey folks,

So, just to be clear, we're certainly aware that the loot system in Raid Finder needs to be smarter, as there's currently not a way for the system to determine loot eligibility based on talent specialization or class. To use the OP's example, if a Strength weapon drops and a hunter rolls on it, the system says "Yep, a DPS player is rolling on it. Okie dokie. Here's your +100." (We should really find ways for the game to say "okie dokie" in your chat log.)

This obviously needs to change and we're in the middle of discussing potential short-term solutions, as a more long-term solution will require programming new tech into the system which will account for class/spec.

We only ask that you keep in mind patch 4.3 is our first implementation of Raid Finder and the "Need Plus" system. The design is quite complicated and requires further iteration to make loot distribution more intelligent.


I don't get why I can even equip a staff on this toon? It never has any useful stat for me. Maybe the problem is the weapon system based on class more than LFR or any other loot system? If I were a designer that's where I'd fix it. xD
Edited by Unternull on 12/8/2011 7:15 PM PST
100 Blood Elf Priest
9775
12/08/2011 05:36 PMPosted by Zarhym
One thing I'd love to see addressed is for example on madness, if 2x the same weapon drops, it would be nice if there was a way that both drops didn't go to the same person.

We recognize the issue with duplicate drops being won by the same person as well. This is something we need to fix.
seeding with timestamps is not enough, seed with microtimestamps
MVP - World of Warcraft
100 Night Elf Druid
14860
12/08/2011 06:46 PMPosted by Verz

You pointed out the reason in the rest of your post. Technically, it's the same issue as the example I covered with hunters rolling on a two-handed Strength weapons. Spirit is a DPS stat for some classes which, therefore, means items with Spirit are flagged for healing and DPS. This is exactly what I mean by the system needing to be more intelligent.


Can we please get a direct response as to why Hunters and Druids can roll need on Strength items at all?

Can we please get a direct response as to why Death Knights, Paladins, and Warriors can roll need on Agility items at all?

I know there are a ton of special cases, but I keep harping on the Strength/Agility thing because there is absolutely zero gear or spec overlap between those classes.

Plate DPS/Tanks NEVER want Agility, Hunters/Druids NEVER want Strength. Why does need even light up for those classes, regardless of their role? I'm not even asking why they get Need+, I'm asking why can they even push "Need"?

Warriors can't roll need on Int/Spirit plate or caster weapons. Why does this not extend to Str/Agi items and classes?


At this point, I'm pretty sure that their system just doesn't differentiate between AGI melee DPS versus STR melee DPS. The system isn't smart enough yet.
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90 Blood Elf Paladin
14945
The issue also needs to be fixed in the Dungeon Journal as when you filter for a specific class it will list things like strength weapons for hunters or agility weapons for warriors etc. While it does not impact players that have been around for a long time it could confuse new players to see the journal showing them the wrong type of gear.
100 Blood Elf Priest
9775
Hey folks,

So, just to be clear, we're certainly aware that the loot system in Raid Finder needs to be smarter, as there's currently not a way for the system to determine loot eligibility based on talent specialization or class. To use the OP's example, if a Strength weapon drops and a hunter rolls on it, the system says "Yep, a DPS player is rolling on it. Okie dokie. Here's your +100." (We should really find ways for the game to say "okie dokie" in your chat log.)

This obviously needs to change and we're in the middle of discussing potential short-term solutions, as a more long-term solution will require programming new tech into the system which will account for class/spec.

We only ask that you keep in mind patch 4.3 is our first implementation of Raid Finder and the "Need Plus" system. The design is quite complicated and requires further iteration to make loot distribution more intelligent.


I don't get why I can even equip a staff on this toon? It never has any useful stat for me. Maybe the problem is the weapon system based on class more than LFR or any other loot system? If I were a designer that's where I'd fix it. xD
they need to take staves away from shamans, i don't want to see ele or resto shamans using staves, even if it's a legendary, it's just plain wrong, enhance shamans don't use two handers no more, so staves are completely obsolete to shamans
85 Orc Shaman
13495
So when will this be changed? 2 weeks before MoP?

edit: LOL at above poster
Edited by Mosima on 12/8/2011 7:21 PM PST
90 Human Mage
18680
Glad to hear you guys are working on it!
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