Has 4.3 killed guild 25m raiding?

2 Goblin Rogue
0
12/01/2011 10:24 PMPosted by Alshar
Ya I don't take offense at all. I guess if I had to find truck with anything, is saying we weren't successful beforehand. Back when there were many 25 mans, for our lackluster attitude towards hardcore raiding we did OK. We were the 3rd guild behind Doom and someone else alliance for sarth 3d 10 man(which was way way harder then 25. Even Doom talked us up in /2 about it), we killed Algalon (though in 10) before anyone else, we beat AM in ICC 25, also getting a H LK kill though in 10, months before any horde guild had done it as well in 10 or 25. We also were well ahead of AM in t11. We killed rag first week of t12, etc etc. Again this isn't saying we're awesome, but I think a lot of the reason we do get pooped on is because we don't brag when we do something worthwhile.


Or you have a persecution complex and come into everything acting like people are talking bad about your guild even when they aren't.


The only reason I even attempt to list our accomplishments is because for the most part, people are unaware of them. Not that we care all that much, but it was the topic of the last post. Back when 25 mans were healthy, we were a always horde third, and sometimes 3rd overall on the server. That's not all THAT bad, but some would disagree. Not that it matters. The fact Leitka and the others don't get and Brillak tried to point out is that there is a LOT more that goes into making a successful guild then just wowprogress.


You don't seem to get that Doom wasn't just about "wowprogress" either. In fact, it never was. Doom was a community just like your guild is, but you sweep the community aspect of Doom under the rug because it's more convenient for you to view us as nothing but 'mercs.' Your guild is not special. Every guild has a sense of community at its core.

You might notice that I never said a damned thing about your guilds progress because *I don't care about your guilds progress.* My argument in this thread has never been against Legitimate, it has been against your attitude and your tendency to passively talk !@#$ about *absolutely everything,* as you did in your very first post in the thread when you implied that Doom was a loot-%^-*! guild.

Wake up.


When content sucks, and you're guild dies because of it, then your guild wasn't all that great to begin with. A guild is much much more then just a collection of mercs after loot. A good guild can survive adversity, and rise to the challenges thrown at it; inside a raid and out.


You act as if Firelands was the cause for Doom dying. It wasn't. People having played the same game for upwards of 6 years is what led to a lot of it. People get bored and move on, it's what they do. Your idea that Doom 'fell apart' because 'shunjal kicked 5 people' and 'content sucks' is extremely dismissive of what actually happened; not surprising since you're not a member of Doom and don't actually understand the situation. I mean, I don't talk about the in-guild happenings of Legitimate because I don't know them. You on the other hand? You seem to think you know a lot more about other guilds than you do. Stick to what you do know; your own ragtag band of misfits.

Like I said, you can't sit here and act like you've been victimized. You've been an arrogant sod for the entirety of the thread. You continue to use red herring arguments to make it *look* like you're in the right, but anyone paying attention can see the facts very clearly. You say I insulted Legitimate? I say nay. I insulted you. I have no qualms with Legitimate, I have people there that I consider friends. My qualm is, once again, with your haughty arrogance.

Are you going to dismiss this post? Probably. You dismiss just about everything I say without actually reading it it seems like. But the fact remains, you're the one who turned this into a guild comparison.
Edited by Leitka on 12/1/2011 10:39 PM PST
Reply Quote
85 Blood Elf Paladin
0
I read every one of your posts. You seem to confuse a sense of anger with the fact I don't like you, or the extremely easy and cliche stereotypes you fall under. It doesn't matter "why" it happened, only that it did happen when talking about your guilds demise. You yourself are a merc, motivated by things other then people. You have server xfered how many times? You were here what? A year? A little more then that? That doesn't put you in a position to talk about a community because you don't belong to one when the only reason you are there is to serve your own self interest.

I do know what happened inside your guild, and that makes you mad. It's what brought Pravox out too. It's the standard Doom reaction whenever the public finds out what stupid crap Shunjal does.

In the end, I might be a joke to you, but you were always a joke to the majority of the server. You're not missed by anyone that matters who still plays. As crappy as Cata has been for managing a 25 man, I can say with certainty that it was the best thing that ever happened to Dalaran's community as a whole. You're gone, Spanke's gone, Frostybbq is gone, all the bad apples are gone. It's a massive breath of fresh air, and I rejoice because of it.

When the times got tough, you got going. Your actions say more then your words will ever do.

EDIT: To the above fake Leitka

If a MM from our guild gets out DPSed by anyone, who cares. Were they a raider? Probably not. If they were, should they even care in a BH? I know I wouldn't. Do you have logs to back your claim? Again should we care? I've afk tanked BH pugs, does that make me bad? You keep making claims that were bad, as if we've made claims that were good. The only thing that's bad is your reading comprehension.
Edited by Alshar on 12/2/2011 12:23 AM PST
Reply Quote
85 Blood Elf Paladin
0
1. The game doesn't matter its old and stale. I play because of the guild members.
2. Because I hope one day you will learn to read

A good leader does indeed make a good guild. My guild still exists, and more so still kills stuff. If you're guild blows up, or dies out then you obviously did not succeed being a GM. A good leader works through adversity, they don't punch out or quit to serve their own self interest.

Shunjal - Failed
Spanke - Failed
Me - still here


The real question is, can YOU live without us being the best, because you're the only one who seems to care we aren't. Why do you care if we are or aren't? You have yet to answer any direct question this entire thread, and any counter just gets greeted with stupid memes. It's like trying to argue with a six year old. Street lights are on, time to take your nose out of Doom and AM's digestive tract and go home now.

Edit: Also this is becoming increasingly boring. We don't bash our heads against a wall and sling poop till it sticks in game, and doing so out of game is just as dull.
Edited by Alshar on 12/2/2011 12:46 AM PST
Reply Quote
2 Goblin Rogue
0
12/02/2011 12:19 AMPosted by Alshar
I read every one of your posts. You seem to confuse a sense of anger with the fact I don't like you, or the extremely easy and cliche stereotypes you fall under. It doesn't matter "why" it happened, only that it did happen when talking about your guilds demise. You yourself are a merc, motivated by things other then people. You have server xfered how many times? You were here what? A year? A little more then that? That doesn't put you in a position to talk about a community because you don't belong to one when the only reason you are there is to serve your own self interest.


You're proving my point right now. I'm a "merc"? I've transferred 3 times. Kalecgos to Bonechewer (with my guild from Kalecgos who transferred in its entirety), Bonechewer to Dalaran (after said guild eventually fell apart), Dalaran to Thrall (after Doom was no longer raiding)

I'm a very loyal guildmember and anyone that's ever actually been in a guild with me can tell you that. The fact that I transferred doesn't mean I'm not loyal; the fact that I transferred one of the times was *because* I was a loyal officer.

So keep pretending you know anything about my history. It's really funny watching you flounder over what you don't even know. Intoxicated-Kalecgos > Intoxicated-Bonechewer > Doom-Dalaran > Censored-Thrall is the entire history of transfers I have; and I've never left a guild that was still raiding.


I do know what happened inside your guild, and that makes you mad. It's what brought Pravox out too. It's the standard Doom reaction whenever the public finds out what stupid crap Shunjal does.


Except you've yet to explain what happened. I'll make it more clear to you; at least two officers, including the GM, were no longer able to raid or interested in WoW. Many other players were ready to move on from the game. Boredom, stagnation, plenty of reasons. It wasn't a bitter "WE'RE DONE" it was a sentimental "I love you guys and I'm going to miss raiding with you, let's keep in touch and do other things together."

So, again, keep pretending to know what you're talking about. You're frankly pathetic.


In the end, I might be a joke to you, but you were always a joke to the majority of the server. You're not missed by anyone that matters who still plays.


Sure I am. But you'll probably say that those who care about me don't matter...which means that you're putting a mandate on how important your opinion of people is versus mine. Am I missed by the majority of Legitimate? Probably not. But guess what? People who were only exposed to me via trade chat were never intended to like me.

As crappy as Cata has been for managing a 25 man, I can say with certainty that it was the best thing that ever happened to Dalaran's community as a whole. You're gone, Spanke's gone, Frostybbq is gone, all the bad apples are gone. It's a massive breath of fresh air, and I rejoice because of it.


Well you're still here so I wouldn't say the best thing has happened yet. Am I a troll? Sure. But I'm pretty witty about it, and very friendly if I like you. Did I ever like you? No, because you were a pompous douchebag to me the *very* first day you saw me on the server back in Wrath. You probably don't even remember that. "Another random transfer for Doom to carry," if I recall, was what you said when I made a simple correction in trade chat. All because you'd never seen me before.

I may be a jerk, but at least I'm upfront about it.


When the times got tough, you got going. Your actions say more then your words will ever do.


If I was someone that left 'when the times got tough' I would have left early into heroic LK progression, would I not? The *only* reason I left is because there was no raid group anymore that fit what I wanted out of the game. We had one before, we no longer had one after, and many of the people I cared about most were no longer able to raid regularly. So yeah, I left. Doesn't mean I don't still talk to those people.

If I were someone that left when the 'going gets tough,' wouldn't it stand to reason that I'd have left when it was *tough* and we were *raiding?* I was there for every raid up until our final farewell-ish 10 man, and I didn't transfer until after we officially and unanimously decided to step it down. And even then I waited several days to find out what others plans were.
Edited by Leitka on 12/2/2011 12:54 AM PST
Reply Quote
2 Goblin Rogue
0
1. The game doesn't matter its old and stale. I play because of the guild members.
2. Because I hope one day you will learn to read

A good leader does indeed make a good guild. My guild still exists, and more so still kills stuff. If you're guild blows up, or dies out then you obviously did not succeed being a GM. A good leader works through adversity, they don't punch out or quit to serve their own self interest.

Shunjal - Failed
Spanke - Failed
Me - still here


The real question is, can YOU live without us being the best, because you're the only one who seems to care we aren't. Why do you care if we are or aren't? You have yet to answer any direct question this entire thread, and any counter just gets greeted with stupid memes. It's like trying to argue with a six year old. Street lights are on, time to take your nose out of Doom and AM's digestive tract and go home now.


So by your logic, the guild Cuties Only was not a good guild with a strong community, because they're no longer raiding together. They must have only been in it for the loot, since they folded right?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xCIr4flJYlQ

A guild no longer existing in their former form does not mean that the personal bonds of the guild were broken. You seem to think Legitimate is the only guild that people are close to one another in. And yet...I know the birthdays of a lot of the people I've raided with. I'm very close friends with someone that lives completely across the country from me, all because we raided together for several years...several years ago.

I tried to be reasonable to you in my earlier post on this page, and you still can't accept anything reasonable. You're out for blood because you're a bitter, lonely man with anger management issues. Have I said some awful things to people in the past on Dalaran? Definitely. But this time, I'm not the monster. You are. Grow up.
Reply Quote
85 Blood Elf Paladin
0
Again you fail to answer questions presented and act like a child dropped on it's head when provoked. Two people are xdoomies, who were claimed to be bad, now you're saying were all xdoomies and only decent because of it. Stick to a story, yours changes every post. The faft remains only you care about w/e our server rank might be, and obviously don't know facts because AM only finished ahead of us one tier out of the maybe 4 they existed for. It was also the same tier they beat Doom. That being t9 in case you're wondering.

@ The real Leitka

Given Dooms long history of revolving door, my assumption was beyond safe. It must have struck a nerve, because I don't even remember saying it. That's whats so funny to me. You cling to everything I say, when I immediately forget w/e it is you said once I open another tab or log out. I'm sorry you're so obsessed and I left such a scar on your ego, but you're just not my type.

I've never been out for blood, but your actions dictate that you indeed are. You can't resist replying to anything I say, no matter how mundane. do you ever filter what you say when you type? Or do you just let it all hang out without realizing the hypocrisy of it all. We very well could have been friends, but then again I don't hang around anyone moderately considered a troll. Even the most witty and intelligent just become predictable and annoying broken records after a while.

Again this is boring to me. One person is too stupid to comprehend what others are saying, and the other is a hypocrite.
Edited by Alshar on 12/2/2011 12:58 AM PST
Reply Quote
2 Goblin Rogue
0
@ The real Leitka

Given Doomies history of revolving door, my assumption was beyond safe. It must have struck a nerve, because I don't even remember saying it. That's whats so funny to me. You cling to everything I say, when I immediately forget w/e it is you said once I open another tab or log out. I'm sorry you're so obsessed and I left such a scar on your ego, but you're just not my type.


So it's a safe assumption to be a ##%%bag to someone you don't know purely because they just transferred to the server, to a guild you don't like, despite the fact that you know absolutely nothing about them?

That's not a safe assumption. That's the type of elitism you've always pretended Doom was full of.

Do I remember it? Yeah. I have a very good long term memory. It's not because you're special or anything; I remember the first conversation I ever had with Shunjal on a level 1 as well. And the first conversation I had in this game in general when I was first leveling. I remember things, and I don't think "LOL YOU HAVE A GOOD MEMORY" is a very worthwhile insult.

Let me break this down for you: the reason people constantly have negative things to say to you isn't because you're the GM of Legitimate. It isn't because of your progression, it isn't because they're jealous of your community. It's because you have a terrible attitude, very poor people skills, and the resounding ability to see *your own flaws* in everyone else. I mean, remember when you tried to call me 'trailer trash' in a prior thread? You try your damnedest to make personal insults but can't even muster accurate ones. Or how about insulting me because of my choice of schooling/profession, despite knowing absolutely nothing about me?

I've never been out for blood, but your actions dictate that you indeed are. You can't resist replying to anything I say, no matter how mundane. do you ever filter what you say when you type? Or do you just let it all hang out without realizing the hypocrisy of it all. We very well could have been friends, but then again I don't hang around anyone moderately considered a troll. Even the most witty and intelligent just become predictable and annoying broken records after a while.


..You apparently can't resist replying to me either. Like I said, at least I can admit to my trolling and whatnot. You're completely oblivious to your own actions.

No, I doubt very seriously that I'd ever have been friends with you. You're not a very likable person, ever, from what I've seen. At least I have an off switch.
Edited by Leitka on 12/2/2011 1:08 AM PST
Reply Quote
85 Blood Elf Paladin
0
My piss poor people skills must be doing something right, as we've had a much lower turnover rate then Doom or AM ever. As for the trailer remark, it's called trolling. It forced you on the defensive, and that is what its all about amirite?Yyou don't have to like me, you don't have to respect me, nor do you have to open your mouth every time I speak regardless of subject either. I am 99% sure Leitka would we be friends had we ever actually spoken outside of public formats, Granted I still stand behind what I said about hanging out with trolls, but I am willing to bet you can hold a conversation outside of memes and rogue theorycraft.

As for the DK, ya I'm gonna ignore him, He's added pretty much nothing for the last page, and just repeats himself over and over. We beat AM 3 out of 4 tiers and yet he claims we chased them. It's just pointless. One thing I always preach to my people is effective use of your time. Reading his blather is no longer effective. Largest contributor to the boredom factor currently in this thread.

Edit: Also page 7 inc
Edited by Alshar on 12/2/2011 1:15 AM PST
Reply Quote
100 Pandaren Hunter
17265
12/02/2011 12:48 AMPosted by Leitka
And yet...I know the birthdays of a lot of the people I've raided with. I'm very close friends with someone that lives completely across the country from me, all because we raided together for several years...several years ago.


I don't doubt that Doom had a close group of friends at its core. I do doubt that the close core liked and respected every other member of the raid. I'm making a wild assumption here that you viewed the other 15 or so members as slaves with which to carry you to the best gear and achievements. So you constantly kicked members that brought up one complaint or did one little thing wrong and replaced them trying to find the perfect puppets that would never upset you. It's entirely possible I am wrong, but I have a good feeling that I'm not.

As for the fake Lietka, I'm not going to bother anymore. You have only 2 insults and both are boring and obvious lies, but you just keep repeating them. Maybe you hope if you say it enough it'll come true, or maybe you're just sucking up to Leitka by assisting in her trolling us, which by the way, you are doing a bad job of.
Reply Quote
2 Goblin Rogue
0
12/02/2011 01:12 AMPosted by Alshar
My piss poor people skills must be doing something right, as we've had a much lower turnover rate then Doom or AM ever. As for the trailer remark, it's called trolling.


I thought you weren't friends with trolls?
Please. It's not trolling. It's you grasping for an insult based on the only thing you really do know about me; my geographical location. Unfortunately for you, Alabama is a state with very inaccurate stereotypes.


It forced you on the defensive, and that is what its all about amirite?Yyou don't have to like me, you don't have to respect me, nor do you have to open your mouth every time I speak regardless of subject either.


Do me a favor. Go back and reread the first page of the thread. I wasn't even hostile towards you at all in my initial reply, I just explained things that I took issue with in your post (because of the implication that Doom was a loot!@#$% guild), and explained why the drop ratio is actually slightly in 25 mans favor. I even *agreed* with you on the overall point. You're the one that introduced snippy hostility into the conversation.


I am 99% sure Leitka would we be friends had we ever actually spoken outside of public formats, Granted I still stand behind what I said about hanging out with trolls, but I am willing to bet you can hold a conversation outside of memes and rogue theorycraft.


I absolutely can. I'm a very friendly person, believe it or not, and I love to talk about things that interest me; art, music, food, ...weed, random conversation.

Thing is, I'm overly hostile to people that *I* read as being overly hostile. And I've gotten that message from you since day one on this server, and time and time again you prove my reading just.

I'm not "not-friends" with you because I've never spoken to you personally; I'm "not friends" with you because you've always come off as a jackass to me, and not in a tolerable trolling way. There's a difference between being a pretend ^-*!@#$ in trade chat because it's funny, and being an actual %^-*!@#.

Reply Quote
2 Goblin Rogue
0
I don't doubt that Doom had a close group of friends at its core. I do doubt that the close core liked and respected every other member of the raid. I'm making a wild assumption here that you viewed the other 15 or so members as slaves with which to carry you to the best gear and achievements. So you constantly kicked members that brought up one complaint or did one little thing wrong and replaced them trying to find the perfect puppets that would never upset you. It's entirely possible I am wrong, but I have a good feeling that I'm not.


"A wild assumption."
Exactly.

Doom didn't 'constantly kick members that brought up complaints or did minor things wrong', and that goes back to exactly what I've been saying about how completely biased against us you are.

Your *only* knowledge of Doom seems to be negative knowledge from people that *weren't fit for the group.* Not everyone that was kicked was kicked with mallice; you'll notice none of us have insulted Brillak, yet pretty much everyone from Doom hated Logatto.

Do you not understand that there's a reason for that? Do you not understand that when someone personally insults a close friend and a long-term member of a guild over *not getting a boss drop* that it's pretty common to ostracize them for their actions? I'm sure he is cordial and friendly to you guys, because he probably learned his lesson in getting kicked the first time.

Were people sometimes kicked for failing fight mechanics? Yeah. Because they were members who applied to the guild for the purpose of raiding, and they weren't able to carry their weight. There's nothing mean-spirited about that. And no one was ever kicked for failing a mechanic once; almost every time it was because they had failed a mechanic consistently for a long period of time and had made no efforts to improve it.


As for the fake Lietka, I'm not going to bother anymore. You have only 2 insults and both are boring and obvious lies, but you just keep repeating them. Maybe you hope if you say it enough it'll come true, or maybe you're just sucking up to Leitka by assisting in her trolling us, which by the way, you are doing a bad job of.


My trolling ways? I'm certainly not trolling in this thread. I simply take offense to people insulting my friends whom they don't even know. The fake-me and I have had our fair share of arguments too, but he isn't really trolling here either. Maybe he's trolling in constantly reitterating the progression argument, but he's not trolling in saying that Alshar is being a serious jackass in this thread. In fact, you'll notice *no one* is defending Alshar's actions except for you and he. I wonder why that is?

Reply Quote

Please report any Code of Conduct violations, including:

Threats of violence. We take these seriously and will alert the proper authorities.

Posts containing personal information about other players. This includes physical addresses, e-mail addresses, phone numbers, and inappropriate photos and/or videos.

Harassing or discriminatory language. This will not be tolerated.

Forums Code of Conduct

Report Post # written by

Reason
Explain (256 characters max)

Reported!

[Close]