I will never go back to normal raiding again.

90 Human Paladin
0
Personally, I think LFR raiding is too watered down. The mechanics are so dumbed down that half the time they can just be ignored.

Raiding with a bunch of people I don't know isn't nearly as fun as wiping with a bunch of buddies talking in vent.

I don't feel any sense of accomplishment from killing a boss if it doesn't involve some form of challenge or progression.

That being said, I can appreciate the LFR for people like the OP. It clearly wasn't designed for people like me who enjoy raiding for what it actually is. It isn't all that fun for me, and I use it as mostly a tool to get free epics for little effort to help with actual raiding but what can you do about that?

I'm glad people are having fun with it.
Edited by Vindicare on 12/7/2011 6:00 PM PST
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85 Human Paladin
2495
i love lfr
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90 Worgen Druid
13055
I concur with the original poster wholeheartedly.

However, I do have to say one thing: Why is it unlike Normal and Heroic, the LFR is almost entirely dependent on the healers? Tanks don't need to manage their CDs like in NOrmal/Heroic, they just hold threat. DPS just need to kill, and again, don't need to manage their CDs.

Healers however, are often stretched to our limit on these encounters. We had all of our healers pulling 17-21k hps on Ultraxion, and we still wiped 3 times. Druids grabbed red, shamans grabbed blue, paladins grabbed green. Perfect synergy with the buffs, but still, massive issues.

In general, I'm noticing the damage the raid takes is not equivalent to how much damage the raid needs to put out, or how much damage the tanks take.

Either remove 1 DPS slot and add another healer, or lower some of the damage the raid takes during some things, please. I understand it's already watered down, but it just seems choppy to force the healers to be the ones doing most of the work. (This is even commented on in every LFR group I've joined on my toons, I feel the need to point out)

I understand for the most part, it's people not doing what they should be doing that causes most of the raid damage, and in a perfect group, we'd be fine. But this is a PuG Cross-Realm group. That's not going to happen.

So please, a plea from a healer: Add another healer slot to the queue.
Edited by Liliani on 12/7/2011 6:02 PM PST
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90 Draenei Death Knight
5975
12/07/2011 05:58 PMPosted by Firestyle
I unfortunately feel that same will come of LFR once the shiny wears off - and will be boring, without people.


As I noted above, many guilds are running LFR now as another guild bonding activity. If anything this can strengthen many raid groups and guilds.
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90 Undead Warlock
Pie
3320
I disagree with the OP, but appreciate the positive and constructive attitude.

I enjoy the raid finder on my alts that I don't do normal mode raiding with, but I will always prefer raiding with my awesome guild.
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90 Undead Warlock
Pie
3320
12/07/2011 06:00 PMPosted by Liliani
However, I do have to say one thing: Why is it unlike Normal and Heroic, the LFR is almost entirely dependent on the healers? Tanks don't need to manage their CDs like in NOrmal/Heroic, they just hold threat. DPS just need to kill, and again, don't need to manage their CDs.

Actually normal mode is quite healer dependent.

Tanks still need to be smart with their cooldowns in some cases (not a lot of expectations here as it is a random pug).

There are still times, even in Raid Finder, when DPS need to do some quick burst and it helps a lot if they can time their cooldowns accordingly.
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Community Manager
Kudos to Zarhym. I just have one request.

Could you guys please make large raids again? By large i mean Karazhan/Ulduar/Icecrown sized, so people don't get all burny-burned out after the first 3 weeks or so.

I noticed that happening with Firelands and guilds just not playing after awhile.

I'm assuming you mean number of bosses and not space, since Firelands was wide open. :)

We definitely don't want to stick to any formulas when it comes to how many bosses are in each raid tier or expansion. You might see raids on the scale of Kara, Ulduar, ICC, Naxx, etc. in the future. It's just a matter of what feels right for each tier. Having three separate difficulties, however, does require much more development time for each raid.

12/07/2011 04:56 PMPosted by Enhancedone
Praise for gating the LFR though. it was cool that we got to do dragon soul in 2 parts instead of having to commit all the time to one. (like a regular guild would before they got "on farm")

Glad you like it! We did feel it'd negatively impact the dynamic if we suggested a group should complete the whole dungeon together. While we can tamper with numbers and change the lockout rules a bit for this system, the raid content itself is still largely designed with organized raids in mind. To counter that, it just feels a little less daunting when Dragon Soul's split in half for groups being assembled via the Raid Finder.
Edited by Zarhym on 1/5/2012 11:29 AM PST
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90 Troll Shaman
5425
I feel the exact same way. People can QQ about little things in it they dislike all they want but they will never know what they have till it's gone. I killed DW the other day and it was amazing! I can tell you now i would never have stepped foot in that raid until maybe two expansions later. But because of this i am able to enjoy current content, content that i am entitled to. I pay the same amount as the next person, and just because i don't belong to a flashy guild shouldn't mean i get less for my money.

Thank you so much for this Blizz. In my time playing this game, this is possibly the best inclusion i have seen. :)
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90 Human Paladin
0
Whomever reported this post needs to get a life. It feels good to see other people having fun, and to see a thread that dosen't involve crying/whining.

I myself will try LFR this weekend, while off from work and can stay up all night...nomming on pizza hut and rockstar energy drinks. I'll be able to raid, and raid on my own time. Kudos to the OP, and glad you're having fun! :D
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90 Human Paladin
0
12/07/2011 06:04 PMPosted by Asçendant
Personally, I think LFR is way too dumbed down. It turns fighting Deathwing into a complete and utter joke. I think it is ridiculous that many people downed Deathwing in LFR before GUILDS managed to do it in normal. No, this was not the case for my guild personally, but there were many guilds on my server that had not downed Deathwing in normal during the first week. They shouldn't have released the final content in LFR for at least a couple more weeks. It completely takes all the excitement of downing someone who's supposed to be so powerful. To have derp pugs downing Deathwing like he's cake just completely defies Deathwing being so powerful. Grats Blizz, you made end-game content playable for retards and in the process ripped the soul out of the game.


Well that's why they can't get any titles from doing it in LFR.

It isn't as though people wouldn't go back and farm Deathwing anyway once MoP is out.

Although I do agree that the Fall of Deathwing should've been halted from LFR for at least another week or two.
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90 Blood Elf Hunter
9610
I saw this thread when it only had two pages of posts. Now it has fourteen. I'm pretty sure it's only been about an hour, plus an added Blizz post! Well done my friend, well done.

And I agree with you all, I'm slightly hardcore as I do raid with my guild regularly on the weekends. Though that's only on one character so my others are basically in the dust. Now all my characters can be on basically the same level which is revealing as to no more hard grinding to get PuGs or get in a guild run.

I honestly have to say I don't see why so many people are upset about the faceroll dungeons and raids. Personally, I like them! My reasoning? It's a game, it's meant to be fun, not super hard (perhaps a little challenging), and most importantly you want to feel like your a part of something. The easier dungeons and LFR tool make you feel included. Instead of sitting in Orgrimmar dreaming of the chance to even SEE Deathwing, you can experience the rush just like everyone else!

Good job, Blizz.
I applaud you in the sarcastic motion as we Blood Elves do.
/target Blizzard /applaud
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85 Gnome Mage
10660
12/07/2011 06:05 PMPosted by Zarhym
Having three separate difficulties, however, does require much more development time for each raid.


Does this mean you're introducing a third difficulty setting at the expense of content development? What does this mean for future raid content?

I really think that downscaling the content for looking for raid is just going to dilute the experience of raiding and simply using normal mode with the tool would have been a better implementation.
Edited by Luph on 12/7/2011 6:11 PM PST
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85 Draenei Paladin
2225
12/07/2011 06:04 PMPosted by Asçendant
Personally, I think LFR is way too dumbed down. It turns fighting Deathwing into a complete and utter joke. I think it is ridiculous that many people downed Deathwing in LFR before GUILDS managed to do it in normal. No, this was not the case for my guild personally, but there were many guilds on my server that had not downed Deathwing in normal during the first week. They shouldn't have released the final content in LFR for at least a couple more weeks. It completely takes all the excitement of downing someone who's supposed to be so powerful. To have derp pugs downing Deathwing like he's cake just completely defies Deathwing being so powerful. Grats Blizz, you made end-game content playable for retards and in the process ripped the soul out of the game.
And this matters because....


you are saying that beating something on EZ mode needs to be held off some people can beat it on normal mode and feel special? If that is the essence of WoW's soul then this game really has been dead for ages.

Zombie WoW, lol.
12/07/2011 06:10 PMPosted by Luph
I really think that downscaling the content for looking for raid is just going to dilute the experience of raiding and simply using normal mode with the tool would have been a better implementation.
I feel that content wont suffer. It is pretty much the same as nerfing normal mode except implementing it at the start and slapping the easy label on it.

But I do agree. i would absolutely love a normal mode LFR.
Edited by Milsa on 12/7/2011 6:13 PM PST
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90 Night Elf Hunter
11615

Its like if netflix gave you achievements and awards to customize your character based on how much movies you watch.


Considering that LFR gives zero achievements, your analogy is pretty far off track.

So far that the feedback is overwhelmingly positive, so why are you questioning everyones assertions about it being fun? Despite your feelings on the matter, people *are* having fun. It doesn't matter why they're having fun as long as they are.

If you don't find it fun, then simply don't run it. Join a regular raid with "real raiders" where the fun supposedly resides. :)
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90 Draenei Shaman
5400
I am not the best player of this game... but nor am I the worst. I am medium. I dabble in all areas... I master none. I've raided, I've pvp'ed, I've collected, I've achievement-!@#$%d. Many have done these things better than I, but still... I've at least done decent at all of them.

That said... today I have finally killed an expansion's final boss within the life of that expansion. Within his first week of life no less. Something I, an average player... never did in the previous expansions.

He may have been a sissied up version of himself... but I do not care! I am thrilled and more than pleased with the LFR tool. Leave the harder versions and the fancier loot to the people who care for such things. This is all I need.

As someone who played Warcraft 1, Warcraft 2 and Warcraft 3... but never any MMOs before this. This is all I've ever wanted.

This game has never been about the loot or the prestige for me. I've always just wanted to SEE the content. I want to SEE the characters. The cutscenes. The story. I want to meet them, talk to them, kill them. Whatever. Just wanted to do it. Loot was always just a means to that end for me. I wanted to see how the world of warcraft unfolded... in its entirity. FIRST hand. Without watching videos second hand on youtube, or reading about things on WoWWiki...

That said... LFR takes everything I've ever hated about raiding and makes it go poof. No more guild politics and BS. No more people yelling in vent. No practicing and grinding for months and months only to wipe and wipe and never even get to see that final boss. No more obligations. No more schedules. No more cares! I AM FREE! From here on out, I can kill EVERYTHING and owe NOTHING TO ANYONE! HOORAY!

I can finish a raid on my own time. On my own terms. I am warm and fuzzy inside.

My only complaint is that it wasn't backward compatible to the old Cataclysm raids... which I still have yet to see. A slight dissapointment... but oh well. Guess I'll have to see these later... once I've outleveled the content, just as I did so many others in the past.

But I can't tell you how excited I am that every tier of raiding moving forward into Mists of Pandaria will have this feature. I'll once again be excited for each and every patch day!

You'll note from my achievements... I didn't do one damn ounce of raiding in Cataclysm this past year... like many... I was growing tired of this game. And trying to do and see new things became more of a chore than a fun time... so my interest simply faded.

But today Blizzard, as I smote Deathwing with only minor headaches and a reasonable amount of wipes... I found myself having fun again. Well done!

There are kinks to smooth out to be sure... but I am very pleased with the LFR tool... and I will never go back to normal raiding again. The hardcore raiders have their hardcore raids... and I the average person, now have mine...

Hip Hip Hooray


Well said, I actually got to do raid finder on ym rogue the very first week and have downed the first four bosses in Dragon Soul. Sure, I felt they were a bit too easy, but hey it's a good start. I'm just glad the average players such as a myself can finally experience content without the constraints of guild hours or the rediculous standards set by players. Thank you blizzard for this. It was long over due. I haven't been able to enjoy a full raid since ZA/ZG were raidable with the exception of ICC I did get Kingslayer on this toon but only after I outgeared the content.
Edited by Tansienia on 12/7/2011 6:12 PM PST
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90 Troll Shaman
5425
12/07/2011 06:12 PMPosted by Tindomerel
Considering that LFR gives zero achievements, your analogy is pretty far off track.


You still can get completion achievements from LFR :)
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90 Blood Elf Hunter
9610

Its like if netflix gave you achievements and awards to customize your character based on how much movies you watch.


Considering that LFR gives zero achievements, your analogy is pretty far off track.

So far that the feedback is overwhelmingly positive, so why are you questioning everyones assertions about it being fun? Despite your feelings on the matter, people *are* having fun. It doesn't matter why they're having fun as long as they are.

If you don't find it fun, then simply don't run it. Join a regular raid with "real raiders" where the fun supposedly resides. :)


Ah yes, the fun of being yelled at for having non-insane DPS, having average DPS, getting yelled at for not having an 8/8 achievement or having an ilvl 390+. Yes the fun of it.
/sarcasm
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I am not the best player of this game... but nor am I the worst. I am medium. I dabble in all areas... I master none. I've raided, I've pvp'ed, I've collected, I've achievement-!@#$%d. Many have done these things better than I, but still... I've at least done decent at all of them.

That said... today I have finally killed an expansion's final boss within the life of that expansion. Within his first week of life no less. Something I, an average player... never did in the previous expansions.

He may have been a sissied up version of himself... but I do not care! I am thrilled and more than pleased with the LFR tool. Leave the harder versions and the fancier loot to the people who care for such things. This is all I need.

As someone who played Warcraft 1, Warcraft 2 and Warcraft 3... but never any MMOs before this. This is all I've ever wanted.

This game has never been about the loot or the prestige for me. I've always just wanted to SEE the content. I want to SEE the characters. The cutscenes. The story. I want to meet them, talk to them, kill them. Whatever. Just wanted to do it. Loot was always just a means to that end for me. I wanted to see how the world of warcraft unfolded... in its entirity. FIRST hand. Without watching videos second hand on youtube, or reading about things on WoWWiki...

That said... LFR takes everything I've ever hated about raiding and makes it go poof. No more guild politics and BS. No more people yelling in vent. No practicing and grinding for months and months only to wipe and wipe and never even get to see that final boss. No more obligations. No more schedules. No more cares! I AM FREE! From here on out, I can kill EVERYTHING and owe NOTHING TO ANYONE! HOORAY!

I can finish a raid on my own time. On my own terms. I am warm and fuzzy inside.

My only complaint is that it wasn't backward compatible to the old Cataclysm raids... which I still have yet to see. A slight dissapointment... but oh well. Guess I'll have to see these later... once I've outleveled the content, just as I did so many others in the past.

But I can't tell you how excited I am that every tier of raiding moving forward into Mists of Pandaria will have this feature. I'll once again be excited for each and every patch day!

You'll note from my achievements... I didn't do one damn ounce of raiding in Cataclysm this past year... like many... I was growing tired of this game. And trying to do and see new things became more of a chore than a fun time... so my interest simply faded.

But today Blizzard, as I smote Deathwing with only minor headaches and a reasonable amount of wipes... I found myself having fun again. Well done!

There are kinks to smooth out to be sure... but I am very pleased with the LFR tool... and I will never go back to normal raiding again. The hardcore raiders have their hardcore raids... and I the average person, now have mine...

Hip Hip Hooray


Honestly I can't stomach to see this post and it makes me sick to see that World of Warcarft is turning into some junkfood game. Players should not kill Deathwing this fast, but instead it should be done by only a few players and guilds that have earned the spot to kill Deathwing. This is very insulting from a lore perspective, in which that everyone in Azeroth gets to kill Deathwing. This isn't Diablo where every player "gets to see Deathwing" in MMORPGs a everyone shouldn't automatically be main hero, but instead they are a dime a dozen and the way from them to "see" the content is to earn their way to the most important places in the game.

I am not saying that only a minority of players should raid, but I think raiding should not be for everyone. Raiding is all about teamwork and commitment where 25 players all work as a single unit and go through the most challenging content in the game. Raiding should also be about community and working with other players. I am not so found of this raid finder for the same reason why I am not found of the LFG tool, it takes the concept of community and teamwork out of the game. It makes me so upset that Blizzard is trivializes gameplay value, and the concept of teamwork and community just for this horrible idea of no player left behind. This whole concept of no player left behind has no place in MMORPGs, it is an insult to the lore and gameplay concepts of WoW.

I for one am not a satisfied subscriber. It's hard for me to stomach to see players down Deathwing who really didn't earn the spot to be raiders in the first place. It's also hard for me to stomach that players no longer take heroics, or any gameplay mechanic of WoW seriously anymore. I am truly concerned about the direction World of Warcraft is going.
Edited by Eco on 12/7/2011 6:15 PM PST
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