I will never go back to normal raiding again.

90 Undead Warrior
6730
Personally, I think LFR is way too dumbed down. It turns fighting Deathwing into a complete and utter joke.

I think it is ridiculous that many people downed Deathwing in LFR before GUILDS managed to do it in normal. No, this was not the case for my guild personally, but there were many guilds on my server that had not downed Deathwing in normal during the first week.

They shouldn't have released the final content in LFR for at least a couple more weeks. It completely takes all the excitement of downing someone who's supposed to be so powerful. To have derp pugs downing Deathwing like he's cake just completely defies Deathwing being such a hardcore dragon. Grats Blizz, you made end-game content playable for retards and in the process ripped the soul out of the game.

I know all you who don't have decent guilds and don't take this game seriously will disagree, but really think about it. Just imagine in your real life you work hard to achieve something all for others to simply get it handed to them. So what if we get better gear in normal and heroic? It doesn't matter considering you clearly don't need that gear to down Deathwing anyway. The only thing us hardcore raiders have now is the sense of achievement of downing the harder content. However, the RP of the game has been ripped to shreds IMO.

This is absolutely the attitude and language that, in this community, needs to go sit in the corner for a while. If you can't stand the thought of there being multiple difficulty tiers of content -- into which we pour a lot of our development efforts -- to make raiding feasible for more than 2% of players, hit Heroic mode, turn on vent, and repeatedly remind your friends how good you are. I have no doubt they care. :)

Some people, like Vindicare, get it:

I don't feel any sense of accomplishment from killing a boss if it doesn't involve some form of challenge or progression.

That being said, I can appreciate the LFR for people like the OP. It clearly wasn't designed for people like me who enjoy raiding for what it actually is. It isn't all that fun for me, and I use it as mostly a tool to get free epics for little effort to help with actual raiding but what can you do about that?

I'm glad people are having fun with it.


Epic post.
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100 Human Mage
14205
12/07/2011 06:41 PMPosted by Cylise
i guess your right, except you forgot when then rolling nerfs come out for DS everyone and their mom will be flying in there to get there free gear.

Why would they need to nerf normal or heroic mode when LFR now exists for the people that couldn't beat them?
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85 Draenei Paladin
2225
I don't want to see the final boss of a patch the first day it's released. I just don't. It disturbs me greatly knowing I can
you can also choose not to and go do it on normal.

But if your guild is skilled, you may still see the final boss on patch day. I'm sure Paragon and Vodka saw Rag on patch day.

So yeah, your complaint still doesn't hold up or even make sense. You talk as if Blizz nixed normal mode and made it mandatory to do EZ mode nomatter what.

The fact is that Blizz took NOTHING from you. you are still free to do whatever you did before. The only difference is that now anyone can see content. you have an issue with that. You want to feel special? Fine, do normal mode and heroic mode and feel special.
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100 Human Mage
19795
@OP

Part of what makes the game 'fun' is having a goal - that means progression.

Now that you've killed the final boss of the current content in the first week it was released, what is there for you to look forward to on the PvE front besides doing the same thing for the next 6 months.. never having any possibility of not succeeding?

I fail to see how that's fun in any way - beyond the first few times.

Hardcore guilds also get that bored attrition factor, but at least they overcome some real challenges to get there over the first few weeks/months (and rarely are heroic raids cleared super fast except for all but the very very top end guilds)


I can't speak for others but those in my guild enjoy running easy content because it allows us to be more social on vent instead of having to keep channels clear for raid callouts. My guild used to run the old LBRS every Friday night, sometimes 3x in a row, farming gems to get players their UBRS keys made. In BC the most fun we had was when we overgeared Kara and could mow it down in 2.5 hrs. In Wrath we'd run 25 man OS in which you could bring anyone who wanted to go regardless of skill or gear levels. I am currently running old school raids - used to be for rep, now for transmog since that got added. None of these are hard and they are all enjoyable because they provide a relaxing way to spend time with a large group of friends.
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90 Night Elf Druid
0
12/07/2011 03:54 AMPosted by Tweak
No more obligations. No more schedules. No more cares! I AM FREE!



Could not have said it better.
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60 Orc Warrior
5230
you people complaining about it are unreal. you STILL get to do what you want, its always been there and will never go away until the end of the game. but youre whining because a ton of other people now have it too?

i'd say stop being selfish, but theres nothing you can do about it anyway, so stop being so pathetic and acting like something is being taken from you.
Edited by Straka on 12/7/2011 6:46 PM PST
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85 Draenei Shaman
9225
Personally, I think LFR is way too dumbed down. It turns fighting Deathwing into a complete and utter joke.

I think it is ridiculous that many people downed Deathwing in LFR before GUILDS managed to do it in normal. No, this was not the case for my guild personally, but there were many guilds on my server that had not downed Deathwing in normal during the first week.

They shouldn't have released the final content in LFR for at least a couple more weeks. It completely takes all the excitement of downing someone who's supposed to be so powerful. To have derp pugs downing Deathwing like he's cake just completely defies Deathwing being such a hardcore dragon. Grats Blizz, you made end-game content playable for retards and in the process ripped the soul out of the game.

I know all you who don't have decent guilds and don't take this game seriously will disagree, but really think about it. Just imagine in your real life you work hard to achieve something all for others to simply get it handed to them. So what if we get better gear in normal and heroic? It doesn't matter considering you clearly don't need that gear to down Deathwing anyway. The only thing us hardcore raiders have now is the sense of achievement of downing the harder content. However, the RP of the game has been ripped to shreds IMO.

This is absolutely the attitude and language that, in this community, needs to go sit in the corner for a while. If you can't stand the thought of there being multiple difficulty tiers of content -- into which we pour a lot of our development efforts -- to make raiding feasible for more than 2% of players, hit Heroic mode, turn on vent, and repeatedly remind your friends how good you are. I have no doubt they care. :)

Some people, like Vindicare, get it:

I don't feel any sense of accomplishment from killing a boss if it doesn't involve some form of challenge or progression.

That being said, I can appreciate the LFR for people like the OP. It clearly wasn't designed for people like me who enjoy raiding for what it actually is. It isn't all that fun for me, and I use it as mostly a tool to get free epics for little effort to help with actual raiding but what can you do about that?

I'm glad people are having fun with it.



where is the like button?!!? Amazing post!
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85 Troll Druid
3030
I love this because all the guilds I ever joined were run by !@#$ selfish people who ninjad gear for themselves anyways,I atleast have a chance here,thank god for LFR and so long having to hassle with people for a raid on one server,plus it was impossible due to Blackwing lairs looow population.
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100 Human Paladin
13635


i guess your right, except you forgot when then rolling nerfs come out for DS everyone and their mom will be flying in there to get there free gear.

EDIT** not that its hard as it is.. except madness maybe... heroics on the other hand will kick you in the teeth.


As they should, heroics are there for the people who like getting their faces busted in by Deathwing.

people who can deal with that level of cockblocking so to speak.


As much as I support the overall positive outlook of the casuals in this thread, this is the sort of post that only encourages more backlash against them.

If you can't understand the idea that challenge = more fun and more sense of accomplishment then you just can't understand it, that doesn't mean it isn't valid.

Trying to bash it is no different than people bashing casuals with legit complaints that they never got to see the actual content before. Different people find different things fun.
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85 Draenei Paladin
2225
12/07/2011 06:41 PMPosted by Cylise
i guess your right, except you forgot when then rolling nerfs come out for DS everyone and their mom will be flying in there to get there free gear.
Nope.

1. there is nolonger a need to nerf normal mode.

2. Even still, some people will still not get the chance to get that gear, because you will need 8/8 achieve to pug it.

So yeah, >.>
As much as I support the overall positive outlook of the casuals in this thread, this is the sort of post that only encourages more backlash against them.

If you can't understand the idea that challenge = more fun and more sense of accomplishment then you just can't understand it, that doesn't mean it isn't valid.

Trying to bash it is no different than people bashing casuals with legit complaints that they never got to see the actual content before. Different people find different things fun.
I do agree with this. If I could LFR heroic DW and wipe for months on end while progressing slowly, I would.

And i would love every second of it.
Edited by Milsa on 12/7/2011 6:49 PM PST
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98 Night Elf Druid
9795
I am not the best player of this game... but nor am I the worst. I am medium. I dabble in all areas... I master none. I've raided, I've pvp'ed, I've collected, I've achievement-!@#$%d. Many have done these things better than I, but still... I've at least done decent at all of them.

That said... today I have finally killed an expansion's final boss within the life of that expansion. Within his first week of life no less. Something I, an average player... never did in the previous expansions.

He may have been a sissied up version of himself... but I do not care! I am thrilled and more than pleased with the LFR tool. Leave the harder versions and the fancier loot to the people who care for such things. This is all I need.

As someone who played Warcraft 1, Warcraft 2 and Warcraft 3... but never any MMOs before this. This is all I've ever wanted.

This game has never been about the loot or the prestige for me. I've always just wanted to SEE the content. I want to SEE the characters. The cutscenes. The story. I want to meet them, talk to them, kill them. Whatever. Just wanted to do it. Loot was always just a means to that end for me. I wanted to see how the world of warcraft unfolded... in its entirity. FIRST hand. Without watching videos second hand on youtube, or reading about things on WoWWiki...

That said... LFR takes everything I've ever hated about raiding and makes it go poof. No more guild politics and BS. No more people yelling in vent. No practicing and grinding for months and months only to wipe and wipe and never even get to see that final boss. No more obligations. No more schedules. No more cares! I AM FREE! From here on out, I can kill EVERYTHING and owe NOTHING TO ANYONE! HOORAY!

I can finish a raid on my own time. On my own terms. I am warm and fuzzy inside.

My only complaint is that it wasn't backward compatible to the old Cataclysm raids... which I still have yet to see. A slight dissapointment... but oh well. Guess I'll have to see these later... once I've outleveled the content, just as I did so many others in the past.

But I can't tell you how excited I am that every tier of raiding moving forward into Mists of Pandaria will have this feature. I'll once again be excited for each and every patch day!

You'll note from my achievements... I didn't do one damn ounce of raiding in Cataclysm this past year... like many... I was growing tired of this game. And trying to do and see new things became more of a chore than a fun time... so my interest simply faded.

But today Blizzard, as I smote Deathwing with only minor headaches and a reasonable amount of wipes... I found myself having fun again. Well done!

There are kinks to smooth out to be sure... but I am very pleased with the LFR tool... and I will never go back to normal raiding again. The hardcore raiders have their hardcore raids... and I the average person, now have mine...

Hip Hip Hooray


Honestly I can't stomach to see this post and it makes me sick to see that World of Warcarft is turning into some junkfood game. Players should not kill Deathwing this fast, but instead it should be done by only a few players and guilds that have earned the spot to kill Deathwing. This is very insulting from a lore perspective, in which that everyone in Azeroth gets to kill Deathwing. This isn't Diablo where every player "gets to see Deathwing" in MMORPGs a everyone shouldn't automatically be main hero, but instead they are a dime a dozen and the way from them to "see" the content is to earn their way to the most important places in the game.

I am not saying that only a minority of players should raid, but I think raiding should not be for everyone. Raiding is all about teamwork and commitment where 25 players all work as a single unit and go through the most challenging content in the game. Raiding should also be about community and working with other players. I am not so found of this raid finder for the same reason why I am not found of the LFG tool, it takes the concept of community and teamwork out of the game. It makes me so upset that Blizzard is trivializes gameplay value, and the concept of teamwork and community just for this horrible idea of no player left behind. This whole concept of no player left behind has no place in MMORPGs, it is an insult to the lore and gameplay concepts of WoW.

I for one am not a satisfied subscriber. It's hard for me to stomach to see players down Deathwing who really didn't earn the spot to be raiders in the first place. It's also hard for me to stomach that players no longer take heroics, or any gameplay mechanic of WoW seriously anymore. I am truly concerned about the direction World of Warcraft is going.

The overall aura of this vile, condescending post disgusts me. It's seriously baffling how important your e-status means to you. What the hell do you care what other people are doing? I say this for your own well-being: quit the game. It isn't 2004 anymore. You being a hardcore raider doesn't make you any more entitled to see content than a casual. Blizz decides that.
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85 Gnome Mage
10660
12/07/2011 06:44 PMPosted by Milsa
I don't want to see the final boss of a patch the first day it's released. I just don't. It disturbs me greatly knowing I can
you can also choose not to and go do it on normal.

But if your guild is skilled, you may still see the final boss on patch day. I'm sure Paragon and Vodka saw Rag on patch day.

So yeah, your complaint still doesn't hold up or even make sense. You talk as if Blizz nixed normal mode and made it mandatory to do EZ mode nomatter what.

The fact is that Blizz took NOTHING from you. you are still free to do whatever you did before. The only difference is that now anyone can see content. you have an issue with that. You want to feel special? Fine, do normal mode and heroic mode and feel special.


"You don't have to do easy mode" is not a real answer. That's like saying you don't have to pick up a 100 dollar bill off the ground if you don't want to, you can earn it yourself! You're also straw man'ing me now so there's nothing here to really discuss.
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100 Draenei Shaman
7315
I feel the same way! Though the LFR may be easy and depending on the people you are grouped with, a walk in the park. I feel good knowing that I can A: come and go without some guild leader yelling at me that the game and guild comes before real life. That B: I can do it at anytime and not have to worry about losing sleep over being there for a raid. C: Knowing that I can at least raid! Because my realm isn't worth joining the raiding guilds on it. Sad, but true fact. My realm is just...well I have nothing nice to say about it. I'll leave it at that :P

Above all I just like the fact that I can raid when I want. Put my real life before the game without worrying about being kicked from some all high and mighty raiding guild and most of all....JUST ENJOY MYSELF AND THE GAME! (sorry caps! lol)

I love LFR and though I really do wish blizzard would add some of the later raids to the LFR, I'll be happy with what we have now and beyond.

But Blizzard...if you are reading this.... please add ICC and Firelands. Would love to do ICC again and just being able to do Firelands would be nice!
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85 Blood Elf Mage
9920
An aside from the fact that its an awesome tool for people that have had trouble raiding in the past, I also use it to kill bordem. I raid for the bosses, so being able to raid multiple times a week (day, if I really have nothing better to do) is freaking awesome for me. And it's noticeably made my guild's normal raids better. (We can share lol's at some things we run into, brag about our dps, and we know a slightly watered down version.)
My only problem with "bads" in the past has been their causing normals/heroics to get nerfed. This is no longer a problem, so I am now thirdegree the friendly.

Edit: is there a "the Friendly" title in game? if so, how can I get it?
Edited by Thirdegree on 12/7/2011 6:54 PM PST
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85 Draenei Paladin
2225
12/07/2011 06:48 PMPosted by Luph
"You don't have to do easy mode" is not a real answer. That's like saying you don't have to pick up a 100 dollar bill off the ground if you don't want to, you can earn it yourself!
That does not even relate.

But yeah, if you want to feel like you "earned" your pay and you want the satisfaction of being rewarded for a tough job, then yeah. I would say the same. Don't pick up that 100 dollar bill and then go back over and over again for more because you know that rich guy keeps leaving them there for you.

Go out and get a job and enjoy it if that is what you want.

People toss that "straw man" saying around whenever they know they have nothing to say in return that makes sense.
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Blizzard Employee
12/07/2011 06:43 PMPosted by Kolgait
Thing is, yes, LFR IS backwards compatible. Blizzard is just lazy.

Yea. We need more game designers like you who just really get it. ;)
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100 Orc Death Knight
16940
The people getting bent over the LFR are pathetic. I guess these folks are missing out on the simple fact that video games are meant to played for fun. It's a really trashy attitude to say that people who don't commit to a guild, or put in vast amounts of time into this game, don't deserve to experience certain things.

I've been in random BGs where people freak out on others cause they don't have full PVP gear. Do they not realize that these guys who could be looking to really get into the PVP side of the game have to start somewhere? But no, they aren't in PVP gear so they shouldn't be in a BG. That's a sad person getting bent over that. The battleground finder is for anyone and everyone who wants to play around with PVP. Last I checked there were various arenas for the hardcore PVPer. You know, the ones you que up with your own crew? The ones where you don't have to worry about these under-geared or inexperienced players dragging you down? Yeah they would be for those "hardcore" players.

It's no different for the lfr. It's for anybody and everybody who wants to tinker in the raiding aspect of the game without having to worry about being excluded because they lack skill, or don't meet the expectations of the "hardcore" raiders. Seriously, for all you whiners, this doesn't cut into how YOU play the game. You can still raid with your guild, with your style of raiding. The LFR doesn't grant anyone anything special like a title, a mount, an achievement, or the cream of the crop gear. They get the experience or doing a raid. That's it. You who will join up with guild mates are going to get all those things plus some ridiculous "I'm better than you and deserve more than you" attitude that you most likely already have. This doesn't affect you "hardcore" raiders in the slightest. And it's pretty damn sad if it does affect you in some way. If you have fun doing heroic raids with your guild then all the power to you. But don't spew you're bile at those who want have casual fun with the game. That isn't a crime.

Bottom line, video games aren't serious business. Video games are an escape. They aren't life, and as such shouldn't be treated like it is. This is d-bag thing to say but the "hardcore" crowd seriously paints themselves as they are portrayed in south park (and if you don't know what I'm talking about you should look in to it). I feel sorry for you people. No one should condemn others for having fun with something they've paid for and continue to pay for.
Edited by Volfe on 12/7/2011 6:57 PM PST
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85 Gnome Priest
3735
Excellent post, well said and I am simply posting to add my agreement and support of it!
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