I will never go back to normal raiding again.

85 Blood Elf Mage
4195

This is absolutely the attitude and language that, in this community, needs to go sit in the corner for a while. If you can't stand the thought of there being multiple difficulty tiers of content -- into which we pour a lot of our development efforts -- to make raiding feasible for more than 2% of players, hit Heroic mode, turn on vent, and repeatedly remind your friends how good you are. I have no doubt they care. :)

Some people, like Vindicare, get it:

I don't feel any sense of accomplishment from killing a boss if it doesn't involve some form of challenge or progression.

That being said, I can appreciate the LFR for people like the OP. It clearly wasn't designed for people like me who enjoy raiding for what it actually is. It isn't all that fun for me, and I use it as mostly a tool to get free epics for little effort to help with actual raiding but what can you do about that?

I'm glad people are having fun with it.


This is why you're my favourite, Zar.
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90 Goblin Mage
6405
I agree LFR is a great way for casual players to experience end-game content. As a semi-hardcore raider, it makes me sadpanda when I see people in LFR doing extremely dumb things and still downing bosses, but LFR isn't supposed to be particularly challenging. So yay for LFR.

One thing I absolutely DO think should get changed is people being able to loot two of the EXACT SAME token off of one boss. Our rogue won two glove tokens last night in LFR. He gave the second token to the second-highest roller, but not everyone is as nice as he is. It's not fair and should be fixed ASAP.
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90 Human Warlock
3800
12/07/2011 06:39 PMPosted by Luph
For once, the debate is not about gear at all. It's entirely about content access. While I think the sense of entitlement here is reaching critical mass--it's not just what other people get. I don't want to see the final boss of a patch the first day it's released. I just don't. It disturbs me greatly knowing I can.


Entitlement? I pay fifteen bucks a month plus the 100$ or more for the expansions.

I'm a paying customer. I *am* freaking entitled.
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100 Pandaren Hunter
8005
12/07/2011 06:48 PMPosted by Luph
"You don't have to do easy mode" is not a real answer. That's like saying you don't have to pick up a 100 dollar bill off the ground if you don't want to, you can earn it yourself! You're also straw man'ing me now so there's nothing here to really discuss.

Actually it is a real answer, and it takes away nothing from the harder difficulties. You have larger problems if you feel wronged because other people, whom you feel shouldn't, can kill Deathwing. Achievements, mounts, and other goodies can not be earned in Raid Finder. It is exclusive to you. So seek that loot and rub it in our faces if that really makes your day.
Edited by Rawinstinct on 12/7/2011 6:57 PM PST
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85 Goblin Shaman
0
12/07/2011 06:52 PMPosted by Zarhym
Thing is, yes, LFR IS backwards compatible. Blizzard is just lazy.

Yea. We need more game designers like you who just really get it. ;)


Zarhym is on a roll! xD
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100 Pandaren Hunter
8005
On another note, the Raid Finder can definitely be a more social experience as well. You are meeting random people from random servers each run through, rather than running with the same people every week. I do think friendships and connections can be forged through this tool. :)
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90 Night Elf Rogue
6820
/signed :)
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12/07/2011 06:52 PMPosted by Zarhym
Thing is, yes, LFR IS backwards compatible. Blizzard is just lazy.

Yea. We need more game designers like you who just really get it. ;)

I'm curious. What all would need to change in, for example, Icecrown Citadel before it's LFR-capable?
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100 Human Paladin
13000
The people getting bent over the LFR are pathetic. I guess these folks are missing out on the simple fact that video games are meant to played for fun. It's a really trashy attitude to say that people who don't commit to a guild, or put in vast amounts of time into this game, don't deserve to experience certain things.

I've been in random bgs where people freak out on others cause they don't have full pvp gear. Do they not realize that these guys who could be looking to really get into the pvp side of the game have to start somewhere? But no, they aren't in pvp gear so they shouldn't be in a bg. That's a sad person gettin bent over that. The battleground finder is for anyone and everyone who wants to play around with pvp. Last I checked there were various arenas for the hardcore pvper. You know, the ones you que up with your own crew? The ones where you don't have to worry about these under-geared or unexperienced players dragging you down? Yeah they would be for those "hardcore" players.

It's no different for the lfr. It's for anybody and everybody who wants to tinker in the raiding aspect of the game without having to worry about being excluded because they lack skill, or don't meet the expectations of the "hardcore" raiders. Seriously for all you whiners this doesn't cut into how YOU play the game. You can still raid with your guild, with your style of raiding. The lfr doesn't grant anyone anything special like a title, a mount, an achievement, or the cream of the crop gear. They get the experience or doing a raid. That's it. You who will join up with guild mates are going to get all those things plus some ridiculous "I'm better than you and deserve more than you" attitude that you most likely already have. This doesn't affect you "hardcore" raiders in the slightest. And it's pretty damn sad if it does affect you in some way. If you have fun doing heroic raids with your guild then all the power to you. But don't spew you're bile at those who want have casual fun with the game. That isn't a crime.

Bottom line, video games aren't serious business. Video games are an escape. They aren't life, and as such shouldn't be treated like it is. This is d-bag thing to say but the "hardcore" crowd seriously paints themselves as they are portrayed in south park (and if you don't know what I'm talking about you should look in to it). I feel sorry for you people. No one should condemn others for having fun with something they've paid for and continue to pay for.


Yet more examples of many in this thread of people that just don't get it.

Different people play this game for different reasons and different people find different things about this game fun.

Just like the people in previous pages who were arguing about what meaningful content actually means, this post is just a reminder that people just don't understand how many different kinds of people actually play this game.

Consider for a moment that I actually find organizing raids and managing my guild fun. Consider that I find dungeon running via the LFR and RDF tool mundane because it's with people I don't know or care anything about. Consider that there's a sizable percentage of this population who play this game for the SOCIAL ASPECT of it, the epitome of that social aspect being team work.

The biggest reason why people have a problem with the LFR is because it only exacerbates problems that this community already has, people are not concerned about learning how to play with others or be a part of a team. There's a huge percentage of this playerbase that simply logs into this game and wants to immediately start playing it without needing to rely on a team and I get that, but there are a ton of players like me that play this game as opposed to other games just like it because we love the team aspect of it. If i wanted to crawl through a dungeon by myself or with followers that I didn't care about I would play Skyrim. I play this game for its team aspect and its team aspect alone. I have games I play for other reasons but I play WoW for the community and the teamwork challenge.

Do not try and bash players who have a problem with the LFR by trying to simply state that they are just mad their e-peens are hurt. It isn't that simple. The LFR just symbolizes more of a shift of World of Warcraft away from the heavy teamwork aspect that many of us bought it for in the first place. Recognize that, before you make your next post.

You want people to respect the reasons that you play this game for. Have the courtesy to do the same.
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90 Night Elf Druid
8200
12/07/2011 06:38 PMPosted by Zarhym
This is absolutely the attitude and language that, in this community, needs to go sit in the corner for a while. If you can't stand the thought of there being multiple difficulty tiers of content -- into which we pour a lot of our development efforts -- to make raiding feasible for more than 2% of players, hit Heroic mode, turn on vent, and repeatedly remind your friends how good you are. I have no doubt they care. :)

Maybe the attitude could sit in the corner for a while though the points that are being hit are valid points, particularly when LFR was said to be someplace for players to learn how to raid and so far I do not see this to be the case and actually to be accomplishing the opposite.

Teamwork which is a very important part to raiding is lacking quite a bit in LFR mainly due to the team work oriented mechanics being automated or effectively removed. This leaves new raiders having to learn teamwork when they jump into the normal difficulty raid. Than you have things like healing which is a spam fest which even on my holy priest is just not teaching me how to be an effective healer, its teaching me how to be a meter hog with no care of who needs heals or to space out cool downs. With there being mechanics which are being trivialized/removed/automated results in players who are not learning how to deal with these mechanics when they have to deal with them on normal mode.

So the question comes down to, what are new raiders supposed to be learning in LFR difficulty or is it really just supposed to be the closest thing to placing players on auto pilot while still having them play the game?

Now for me personally I am a player who likes the end game of WoW because of the team based content which is based around the idea of working together as a team to tackle the obstacles ahead of us. The idea of logging in and turning off my brain and not being social in group based content just makes my heart sink.

This game has its solo content and its group based content and it just feels like Blizzard is trying to make group based content effectively solo based content. I know there are players who like that kind of content where they can run around willy nilly like some kind of god and not as a hero and that there seems to be a growing number of the population who finds satisfaction in such gameplay. Me however I just dont find such appealing for WoW.
Edited by Noctemtenchi on 12/7/2011 7:12 PM PST
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100 Blood Elf Paladin
10525
More often than not posts regarding new content focus on the negative. People who feel the need to post feedback generally do so to express displeasure. For that reason I stay away from the forums because the opinions are pretty one sided. But with the positive nature of this thread I felt compelled to chime in, because I 100% agree.

I consider myself to be a seriously casual player. ;-) I raid with my guild for about 3 hours a night, 3 nights a week. We are not really in any competition for the first on any kill, but we put the time in, and eventually down the content. (Our 1st Rag normal kill was wednesday, after 4.3 dropped)

This afternoon I killed Deathwing for the 1st time, and it was awesome!! I knew that the content was accessible, but had no idea it would be so FUN! I intend to kill deathwing many more times over the coming months, on every toon i play.

Yes, our guild will still continue to spend roughly 9 hours a week on normal. In fact im probably late for the raid typing this out. Yes, we'll hit roadblocks that we will eventually overcome. I'm expecting to most likely spend 6-8 weeks progressing on Deathwing, and hopefully making a few tries on heroic mode sometime next summer. I'm certainly looking forward to the process, but in the meantime there will be no bars to my exploration of the new content.

I love the LFR. Kudo's to Blizz on a job well done
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90 Tauren Druid
12670
12/07/2011 06:59 PMPosted by Stabbity

Yea. We need more game designers like you who just really get it. ;)

I'm curious. What all would need to change in, for example, Icecrown Citadel before it's LFR-capable?


The fact that it's tuned for level 80?
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100 Human Paladin
13000


As much as I support the overall positive outlook of the casuals in this thread, this is the sort of post that only encourages more backlash against them.

If you can't understand the idea that challenge = more fun and more sense of accomplishment then you just can't understand it, that doesn't mean it isn't valid.

Trying to bash it is no different than people bashing casuals with legit complaints that they never got to see the actual content before. Different people find different things fun.


??

I'm not bashing anything, Heroic raids are there for people who like that level of difficulty and enjoy having deathwing kick their teeth in.

pretty sure you miss understood my post.

and no, challenge for the sake of it isn't fun at all it's deliberate roadblocking to make the heroic content last longer.

Remember Muru, now that was fun.


Oh i understood your post well enough, I understood the resentment you have for the hardcore raiders because it was so evident in the language you chose in your post.

I'm simply highlighting the fact that your post had so much venom in it, if that wasn't what you wanted to convey I highly recommend you edit the use of language in your posts.
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90 Blood Elf Hunter
7610
I have a difficult schedule and putting raiding in it is crazy. I echo the OP in saying thanks for letting me see the content. I don't care if it is easy. I just want to see how things play out. With Transmogging, I can keep looking cool while I do it all too, without wearing half of each tier set like a clown :)
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85 Draenei Paladin
2225
12/07/2011 07:01 PMPosted by Noctemtenchi
So the question comes down to, what are new raiders supposed to be learning in LFR difficulty or is it really just supposed to be the closest thing to placing players on auto pilot while still having them play the game?
The same thing they learn from watching raid strats.

i prefer raiding with a person who raided the LFR than a person who just watched the video.

But then again, I also am okay with raiding with someone in less than full 397 gear with the 8/8 achieve.
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100 Pandaren Hunter
8005
12/07/2011 07:01 PMPosted by Noctemtenchi
This is absolutely the attitude and language that, in this community, needs to go sit in the corner for a while. If you can't stand the thought of there being multiple difficulty tiers of content -- into which we pour a lot of our development efforts -- to make raiding feasible for more than 2% of players, hit Heroic mode, turn on vent, and repeatedly remind your friends how good you are. I have no doubt they care. :)

Maybe the attitude could sit in the corner for a while though the points that are being hit are valid points, particularly when LFR was said to be someplace for players to learn how to raid and so far I do not see this to be the case and actually to be accomplishing the opposite.

Teamwork which is a very important part to raiding is lacking quite a bit in LFR mainly due to the team work oriented mechanics being automated or effectively removed. This leaves new raiders having to learn teamwork when they jump into the normal difficulty raid. Than you have things like healing which is a spam fest which even on my holy priest is just not teaching me how to be an effective healer, its teaching me how to be a meter hog with no care of who needs heals or to space out cool downs. With there being mechanics which are being trivialized/removed/autimated players are not learning how to deal with these mechanics when they have to deal with them on normal mode.

So the question comes down to, what are new raiders supposed to be learning in LFR difficulty or is it really just supposed to be the closest thing to placing players on auto pilot while still having them play the game?

LFR was not designed to teach people to raid. It was designed to offer broader access to the content. Learning from the experiences comes with the territory, although I'm sure you'll disagree. Your individual experiences with other players does not apply to everyone.
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