Items - New Class Restrictions 12/13/2011

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26 Goblin Mage
215
12/13/2011 11:01 AMPosted by Flappy
I obtained TWO Blade of the Unmaker from the same Madness of Deathwing kill, and can no longer use either. We group-queued with over 20 members from our guild, and not a single rogue was present who would have used these items (big surprise: you give freebie welfare stage1 legendary daggers to every rogue - why do these even exist?). Yes, I vendored my previous weapon(s?), and I don't even recall what it was. No, I don't want to wait FOUR DAYS EIGHTEEN HOURS (in-game ticket reply time estimate) for a GM to give me back an item I will have already replaced.


Kiril, Fury of Beasts is much better than those TWO daggers you had.
26 Goblin Mage
215
12/13/2011 12:54 PMPosted by Trynaklei
I'm also not torn up over the shield/Ledger deal. Honestly, it makes sense to me. We Shamans and Paladins can use shields as well as off-hands, whereas Priests and Druids are stuck with off-hands only. Let them have the Ledger, I'll be satisfied with a shield even if it's not "BiS."


But there's no shield in LFR...
90 Blood Elf Paladin
0
12/13/2011 12:19 PMPosted by Taggthemage
because what happens when NOBODY needs the polearm(except the warrior/dk/paladin... and it is a major upgrade compared to what they were using.)


Look at what blizzard is trying to tell those Dks,pallys and warriors they stated that there will be no STR pole arms in the near future so they are also helping them not be bad because any DK,pally or Warrior running around with an aggy pole arm is just fail no matter what aggy is a useless state for each one of those classes for a reason
85 Draenei Death Knight
8525
12/13/2011 01:11 PMPosted by Korrah
I'm also not torn up over the shield/Ledger deal. Honestly, it makes sense to me. We Shamans and Paladins can use shields as well as off-hands, whereas Priests and Druids are stuck with off-hands only. Let them have the Ledger, I'll be satisfied with a shield even if it's not "BiS."


But there's no shield in LFR...


There's no shield anywhere.

Shields exist in loot tables for the sole purpose of teasing Paladins, Shaman, and Warriors.

I'm convinced they all have a drop rate well below 1%
90 Human Paladin
15265
12/13/2011 01:13 PMPosted by Ðeathwaggle
Shields exist in loot tables for the sole purpose of teasing Paladins, Shaman, and Warriors.


This is truth, the Hour of Twilight one wont drop no matter how many times I tank queue for it
26 Goblin Mage
215
Posted by Korrah

I'm also not torn up over the shield/Ledger deal. Honestly, it makes sense to me. We Shamans and Paladins can use shields as well as off-hands, whereas Priests and Druids are stuck with off-hands only. Let them have the Ledger, I'll be satisfied with a shield even if it's not "BiS."


But there's no shield in LFR...



There's no shield anywhere.

Shields exist in loot tables for the sole purpose of teasing Paladins, Shaman, and Warriors.

I'm convinced they all have a drop rate well below 1%

The solution, of course, is to make the off-hand usable ability "turns this item into a shield".
:D
Edited by Korrah on 12/13/2011 1:18 PM PST
90 Tauren Druid
12100
12/13/2011 11:32 AMPosted by Gistwiki
Ledger of Revolting Rituals - Druid, Priest


Would it be possible for Timepiece of the Bronze Flight to get a socket then so that it's at the very least as good as Ledger for Shaman?


you get the following gains on the shield
20 Int
8 Spi
14 Haste (0.11%)

im pretty sure the itemization is equal or blizzard would have done more to make it so.

12/13/2011 11:39 AMPosted by Kharngrim
I also won the Ledger of Revolting Rituals. Now, I have to go back to a 353 shield. Doesn't make sense, and I'm not too tickled about this.


i hear there is a perfectly acceptable 378 shield out of the new heroics for you.


12/13/2011 11:37 AMPosted by Tonybourdain
Feral Druid Tanks really have the worst of it in this system. They don't have the luxury of wearing "tank" classified gear, and have to share with so many other people rolling, on top of being on the token with the most classes. Rough stuff.

You have gained +1000 reputation with Beartanks.
i've been saying since the beginning that in a raid with a Bear and a plate tank is basicly free loot for the plate tank. all they neeed to compete on is trinkets.

the bear however, has Enh shamans, Rogues, Hunters and Kitties to roll out against.

i got my staff because the LFR i joined had 3 hunters and one D/C'd during deathwing.

my 2 pieces of tier came from guildies on alts giving me tokens they won to help our main raid. (note: at the time both of us were eligible for loot. this was not an exploit.)



Offhand
  • Ledger of Revolting Rituals - Druid, Priest


  • Please revert immediately. This is unnecessarily restrictive. Just because Paladins and Shaman can use shield is not grounds to remove the ability for them to use this item.


    disagree.
    90 Draenei Shaman
    6415
    It does not make sense at all to make the BiS item for Shammy and Pally not equipable just because druids and priests can only equip it... Why the hell i the ability to equip off-hands then?!? just for show off???
    90 Draenei Death Knight
    13745
    I hope they're still planning on making the system itself smarter and then removing the restrictions. It seems like a horribly hacky way of handling it, since there's got to be at least one character who legitimately obtained an item not necessarily for their spec because no one else needed it but it was still an upgrade that was thrown under the bus.

    Not trying to be a @!@@, that just doesn't seem like an appropriate way to handle the item problem, since it's not like the past restricted items are getting moved to people that should have received them when ninjaed/dumblooted and since the whole intent of the LFR was to add more freedom and options to the game.
    85 Draenei Shaman
    2090
    Ok with being forced into using a clearly inferior item because we "can" use it... does not compute -.-

    WTB socket on Timepiece of the Bronze Flight so that it's as good for Shaman/Paladins as Ledger is for Druids/Priests.

    Yes, I am, because if I want true BiS items, I'll figure out how to raid on this character in normals/heroics while still keeping up with my main's raids. :)
    90 Draenei Shaman
    16690
    you get the following gains on the shield
    20 Int
    8 Spi
    14 Haste (0.11%)

    im pretty sure the itemization is equal or blizzard would have done more to make it so.


    Shield vs Ledger
    240 Int vs 270 Int
    160 Spirit vs 152 Spirit
    160 Haste vs 146 Haste

    30 Int vs 8 Spirit and 14 Haste.

    Ledger is a clear cut winner.

    Edit: That's with superior quality gems. It increases to 40 Int in favor of ledger with epic quality gems.
    Edited by Gistwiki on 12/13/2011 1:24 PM PST
    90 Tauren Shaman
    8655
    It took me what felt like forever to get the shield from End Times. In fact, I just finally got it the other day. But in the mean time, every time I went into Hour of Twilight, that dang tanking shield would drop to torment me. =[ And now you're telling me the shield that drops off Blackhorn is a crazy low drop too?! I'm gonna go cry...
    90 Tauren Druid
    12100
    12/13/2011 11:57 AMPosted by Rosefist
    Great. Im sooooo much happier now that there is ONE weapon my enh Shamman can use.


    and there wasnt before? that is if your willing to disregard the primary stats simply to get ilvl... but then again weapon with useless stats (str) = less usable ilvl.

    i hear the new heroics have wepons for you though. decent 378's too.





    THIS. Blizzard has just effectively ripped off a lot of people, not only for the items, but for the gold spent gemming and enchanting. Good job, Blizz. Way to show your customers how very important they are.


    indeed. protecting players from warriors need rolling Agi gear, or hunters need rolling Str gear (needs of the many) is certianly more important than a few players losing access to an offhand item (needs of the few)


    12/13/2011 12:08 PMPosted by Mckillsalot
    I not only wasted a boatload of gold, but I don't have an off-hand anymore.

    as was said in the main post: petition a GM. they will do restorations.
    85 Human Mage
    9800
    I guess this stops non-spirit classes from rolling on spirit items

    But with regards to the myriad other problems with LFR loot this feels like a step backwards and an unnecessary punishment for many people
    90 Tauren Druid
    12100
    12/13/2011 12:36 PMPosted by Gente
    So.. they fix it to where you can't ninja loot anymore and people that ninja'd are mad...


    iknorite, im laughing too




    Spoken like someone without a single 85 that uses a shield.

    If you had a paladin, warrior, or shaman you'd know that at level 85, the crafted shields are the only ones that really exist.


    Disagree. my Guild has 2 resto shamans and a Pally tank. none are using the crafted shields afaik.

    90 Troll Death Knight
    12865
    12/13/2011 01:16 PMPosted by Øtaku
    i hear there is a perfectly acceptable 378 shield out of the new heroics for you.

    This would be exactly like saying since warlocks can use caster swords, they can no longer roll on daggers. Even though the dagger should be perfectly fine and in fact might be itemized better, should a sword exist that warlock should only be allowed to roll on the sword.
    86 Human Paladin
    12165
    Well, I for one applaud the change. The obvious reason that they went this route, as they have stated before, is that the Need Plus system is very limited in it's current capabilities (and they can't expand on it without a significant patch and testing).

    The only way for them to easily (and quickly) address the issue of classes getting need plus rolls on gear that wasn't suited to them was to class restrict the gear based on the general gear guidelines that everyone should be familiar with, so that way the wrong classes wouldn't even be able to roll Need on it.

    Granted, it sucks for those that got something that they can no longer use, but, how much more did it suck for people that lost the rolls on gear to a class that said gear was clearly not designed for. (for instance I myself have witnessed a hunter rolling need on and winning one of those 2H str dps weapons, and then having the gall to say "WTS weapon 25K" in raid chat).
    Edited by Saraxia on 12/13/2011 1:32 PM PST
    I hate to be Captain Jerkwad here but, everyone keeps crying "Ledger BiS Ledger BiS", there isn't a single 384 item that's "BiS".

    If you were really so concerned over BiS you'd be aiming higher than LFR. Where, might I add, you can get and use the ledger.

    It's a valid criticism that the Timepiece could be better itemized / have a socket, but the fact stands--LFR loot is still pretty low-tier as things go, and it's more fair with the restrictions as they are. And fairness is more important than another 50 HPS or whatever piddly amount the "BiS" difference is.

    Overall it would have been far better to just give the role bonus only for qualifying classes that the item "makes sense" for, while still letting "suboptimal" classes Need on it. But I can't deny a certain glee over a certain hunter not being able to use the dagger she outrolled me on.
    85 Goblin Shaman
    12230
    Very glad they are taking this step in the right direction. I had really hoped they could get full spec-based loot distribution in 4.3 when LFR went live, but looks like that won't happen until MoP.

    As a player who plays both a shaman and a druid (and my druid has a 391 so the LFR isn't an upgrade for my druid), I really hope they don't backtrack and cave to complainers on Ledger of Revolting Rituals.

    Paladins and Shaman can roll on the shield, Priests and Druids can roll on the off-hand. To me that is fair. No one gets perfect itemization in every slot, but stealing (imo) an item from other classes that was obviously intended for them because it's better itemized is not good in a LFR setting.

    Complain about the Timepiece itemization rather than not being able to roll on Ledger, although that's likely to fall on deaf ears as Blizzard rarely fixes itemization after items are released. Although they are more likely to add sockets than change anything else as I believe the reason they usually don't modify itemization is because they receive a lot of complaints if they make people regem/reforge based on item changes.
    90 Tauren Druid
    12100
    12/13/2011 01:11 PMPosted by Korrah
    But there's no shield in LFR...

    Yeah there is. Timepiece of the Bronze Flight

    12/13/2011 01:21 PMPosted by Gistwiki
    Edit: That's with superior quality gems. It increases to 40 Int in favor of ledger with epic quality gems.

    Blizz wouldnt have done it if they diddnt think the items were balanced. yeah you can put gems in the offhand... for 200g (superior) or 5k gold (epics) all you have to do is slap an enchant on it.
    i still disagree with this being reverted. its fine as it is.

    12/13/2011 01:28 PMPosted by Jubba
    i hear there is a perfectly acceptable 378 shield out of the new heroics for you.

    This would be exactly like saying since warlocks can use caster swords, they can no longer roll on daggers. Even though the dagger should be perfectly fine and in fact might be itemized better, should a sword exist that warlock should only be allowed to roll on the sword.

    There equalizing out the number of people rolling on specific items. deal with it.

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