"I already have a job."

81 Undead Mage
510
Who does dailies for anything relevant? I think the only time they were worth anything was 4.0.2

What with free epics and all...
yeah :(

Sad sad community of lazy people we've created here...
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90 Human Paladin
12965
you can never do anything fun.
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85 Blood Elf Paladin
5230
12/21/2011 03:37 PMPosted by Bashiok
And furthermore, what would be a better design for this type of structure?


Infinite content.

It's easy to design a better system than dailies, pump out infinite amounts of content, it's just not feasible to pull off. Some people want to spend more time in the game than others, maybe even every day, and we want to make sure they have something to do. While we'd love for that to be fresh and unique content every time, it's simply not feasible. Thus, dailies. Give people something to do each time they log in (if they choose to do so every day).

Not to toot the Mists of Pandaria horn too hard, but I think our general zone design, daily, and scenario approach is pretty solid. Part of what makes dailies a bit tedious, aside from being tedious, is the rewards are desired but may not always quite fit the time investment. I see quite a bit of that being solved and making sure if you're logging in to do some dailies or scenarios, you feel like you made a good chunk of progress toward advancing your character.


If Blizz is listening I'd like to put out another idea that's not often talked about but is being hinted at in a way by Arenanet (via GW2) and that is the notion of "procedurally generated zones". What I mean by that are zones that take on a life of their own depending on what players do to them. They aren't "randomly generated" but rather the content within becomes generated by both fixed and random factors. There's weather, flora, fauna, monsters, npc's, all with simple "needs/wants" that motivates what they do and how a zone gets populated and what's in there. Depending on what players do, the zone takes on different arcs, there is no fixed expectation or outcome. We can raze villages, help npc farmers protect their crops, aid the bad guys, kill the bad guys, heck maybe you'd even let us build in a "minecraft" sort of way. What this might provide is the "world of azeroth" as "substrate" and we as players.... "the agents or actors" that shape the world.

Here's an example players farm x animal for skins > x animal was natural predator of animal y > animal y overgrows > overeating vegetation > forest withers > becomes prone to fire > band of z bad guys npcs raze village and farms > sets village on fire > spreads ot sick forest > good guys from orgrimmar/stormwind (aka players) come in and try to help local npc's put out fires > all the chaos causes Boss B to come to town to take advantage of a stressed situation > opportunity for players to fight this boss (loot and shiny points ensue) > players help local farmers re-establish > ruffians from Exodar (aka players) decide they like the chaos and start a skirmish with the more "order oriented players" > and on and on and on.

So that, on any given day, you can walk into this zone and not really know what you are in for.

Is this technically feasible in terms of programming and supporting it in a real time environment? I don't know.

But what I do know is that it sounds like it could be fun and depending on the "laws of a zone" and the different sorts of things that could spawn and become conflict points it could, by way of the "players as agents" become a source of RENEWABLE content.

Because right now, that's what I think is sorely missing from WoW and if I get the jist of threads like these, it's the lack of renewable (key part of word is new aka novel) content in WoW that vexes us... and vexes you as Developers.
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90 Blood Elf Mage
14440
Personally, what annoyed me about Firelands dailies was having to do it on every character that wanted loot, and not being able to earn those specific items through some other means.

The quests were fun, don't get me wrong, but having to do them a lot on multiple characters gets tiring. I think it would be best to have a way to "bypass" doing the quests. Perhaps have the epic items obtainable through other means (preferably a decent VP cost). Or maybe let you spend some kind of currency to complete those dailies instantly, skipping the gold reward however (say, you can spend 25 JP to instantly complete a daily quest).

Essentially, give the same rewards for doing the content you want to do, instead of specific content for a specific reward.
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85 Gnome Priest
3085
If blizz really things people went through content too fast, then they have no real idea whats wrong with this game. Hint, it wasnt that content was too easy to get through. It was the complete lack of it and falling back on xpacs as the main content drivers.

It was the exact same systems and grinds we had seen in the past being reinforced as 'the standard' when they should be anything but.

The world has changed alot, expectations have too, and wow has failed to meet them, people have more choice than ever, and they will go where they get the most fun for their buck. Tieing people into grinds, or even 1 year contracts, isnt the way to make this game great again.
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90 Night Elf Rogue
17130
Silithus, anyone?
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85 Blood Elf Death Knight
5585
All the talk of Final Fantasy...
FF WAS and IS Linear.

You want Sandbox games of old?

MANY AD&D made by SSI (Pools of Radiance, Curse of the Azure Bonds, Secret of the Silver Blades, Pools of Darkness, Gateway to the Savage Frontier, Treasures of the Savage Frontier, Champions of Krynn, Mezzeroberranzan, ... I could go on.)

Wizardry - Most notably Wizardry 6 Bane of the Cosmic Forge, 7 Crusaders of The Dark Savant, 8...

Might and Magic - #1, #2, #3 Isles of Terra, #4 Clouds of Xeen, #5 Darkside of Xeen (could combine 4 & 5 for World of Xeen.

THOSE are sandbox games, young ones!

What I loved about many of those games. If you did the area out of order (and there was a loose semblence of order to some of them, clues leading you one to another at your chocie) ... the difficulty of the area or even PLOT (Wizardry 7 and 8!) would change based on your character's items, level, choices, or even time passed.

Back in the days where content was KING, and graphics were not.
Edited by Fast on 12/21/2011 10:24 PM PST
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85 Gnome Priest
3085
12/21/2011 10:20 PMPosted by Azreluna
Silithus, anyone?


Oh god, dont remind me. They revamped Silithus in Vanilla, and we got the worst 'pvp' ideas ever. Towers in Plague lands and the SAND in silthus..... im still embarassed for blizz >.<;
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90 Night Elf Rogue
17130
If blizz really things people went through content too fast, then they have no real idea whats wrong with this game. Hint, it wasnt that content was too easy to get through. It was the complete lack of it and falling back on xpacs as the main content drivers.

It was the exact same systems and grinds we had seen in the past being reinforced as 'the standard' when they should be anything but.

The world has changed alot, expectations have too, and wow has failed to meet them, people have more choice than ever, and they will go where they get the most fun for their buck. Tieing people into grinds, or even 1 year contracts, isnt the way to make this game great again.


Then what is?
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90 Night Elf Rogue
17130
12/21/2011 10:23 PMPosted by Gnomeopathy
Silithus, anyone?


Oh god, dont remind me. They revamped Silithus in Vanilla, and we got the worst 'pvp' ideas ever. Towers in Plague lands and the SAND in silthus..... im still embarassed for blizz >.<;


No, they implemented Silithus in vanilla. Before that, it was just an empty zone.

And there was nothing wrong with the sand, except maybe the fact that it was sand. Recovering crystals or some other rare spawn would have worked equally well, at least if it had been a more central location to begin with. You'll recall that running sand granted honor, and the first faction to 200 got a buff.

Plus, the badges and quests were fun. You werent tied down by a daily limit, but you were going to have to come up with 4 Moonsteel Broadswords from somewhere.

There was farming up cultist sets for people who like that sort of thing, and the soloable, group bosses, and raid bosses that were summoned by players is something that hasn't been seen since.

Hopefully Blizzard brings Silithus back.
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90 Human Death Knight
11630
12/21/2011 03:37 PMPosted by Bashiok
And furthermore, what would be a better design for this type of structure?


Infinite content.

It's easy to design a better system than dailies, pump out infinite amounts of content, it's just not feasible to pull off. Some people want to spend more time in the game than others, maybe even every day, and we want to make sure they have something to do. While we'd love for that to be fresh and unique content every time, it's simply not feasible. Thus, dailies. Give people something to do each time they log in (if they choose to do so every day).

Not to toot the Mists of Pandaria horn too hard, but I think our general zone design, daily, and scenario approach is pretty solid. Part of what makes dailies a bit tedious, aside from being tedious, is the rewards are desired but may not always quite fit the time investment. I see quite a bit of that being solved and making sure if you're logging in to do some dailies or scenarios, you feel like you made a good chunk of progress toward advancing your character.


When I cancelled my second account, one of the reasons to check off as to why I was quitting was "I hate dailies."

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85 Gnome Priest
3085
That people want to have fun with their leisure time and not 'work' >.>?

They dont want to have grind A or B, or heaven forbid, even C!

Blizz has chosen to stick to the '/played' method of wow, all content is gated off arbitarily to extend its use. Because people dont come back once its done. But instead of making people come back because its fun, the quests are great... etc... its simply a duty, done on auto pilot. PVE? Its a gear grind, sure, but why do the dungeons have to be so static and samey? Trash trash boss trash trash boss, times however many times you get it as your 'random'. Is that fun? Not after 10 times. So change it up, make it fun, make instances more rewarding by making them more fun. Nowadays, people dont want anything except a clean line towards loot and gear? Why? Because that is all blizz offers in advancement, that is their 'end game' so the playerbase gets put on an IV drip of gear and points per week.

Why not make them fun? Why not try something new? Ive made suggestions before.

The same goes for pvp. I think many from vanilla will tell you that pvp was more fun before they put in the grind. Which is all their addition to pvp was, a grind, grind for gear.

Every aspect of this game is a grind. But after so long, the grind just becomes more apparent, and if you are not having fun, why not switch to games that offer more? Why log on daily to do x or y for 1 hour every week, doing repetitive quests, dungeons or battle grounds, to earn a few more points, or gold, or whatever, when you can log into Battlefield, Cod, you name it, and have fun instantly. There is no grind that underpins the entire game, they are just bonuses. So why not do the same here?

Fun gameplay should be the core of this game, it is firmly in the back seat to /played gameplay. the new DMF was so dissapointing in this regard, I thought it would be this fun thing I looked forward to every month. Instead? A flimsy facade hiding yet another grind.

It doesnt take infinite content to fix this issue, it just takes some time on blizzes part. I feel they are coasting till their next mmo comes out really, why invest in wow if they feel its going down hill?

I agree, although it was too 'raid' inclined for my liking, the pve in the silthus patch in the reworked zone was good. I just really hated the sand pvp >_>;
Edited by Gnomeopathy on 12/21/2011 10:35 PM PST
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85 Human Death Knight
13240
Dailies and grinding. You want X, you have to perform Y dailies for Z period of time. You grind rep and gold and then you get what you want. This is what I explained.

"But that's just like a job. I already have a job. When can we do something fun?"

Uh huh...

Brilliant game design.
it is brilliant game design, especially for an RPG.

12/21/2011 10:34 PMPosted by Gnomeopathy
Blizz has chosen to stick to the '/played' method of wow, all content is gated off arbitarily to extend its use.
i'm not sure what game you are playing, but the only thing gating is your level and your gear. remove those and there is really no game left to play.
Edited by Blodøks on 12/21/2011 10:54 PM PST
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80 Blood Elf Hunter
3105
12/21/2011 10:20 PMPosted by Gnomeopathy
Hint, it wasnt that content was too easy to get through. It was the complete lack of it and falling back on xpacs as the main content drivers.


wham.
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90 Human Rogue
10075
I was actually really impressed with the Firelands dailies and the unique things they brought to the table, especially the ongoing story and how it tied into the raid content. I'd like to see that kind of thing become the model for future dailies, as opposed to more time wasting boredom like the Tol Barad ones. No reason dailies can't be somewhat interesting, right?
Edited by Delano on 12/21/2011 11:09 PM PST
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69 Human Warrior
12355
i wish dailes are like valors, you can do it 7 times in a week rather than once a day.... i hate dailes, i rather get the misery over with in day one and enjoy the rest of the week. I would also like a job that I work 2 20 hour shifts and get the rest of the week off. lol
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85 Orc Hunter
4165
My basic philosophy is, if I'm not enjoying it, I'm not doing it. This is supposed to be fun, not make me want to procrastinate and do something else other than play the game (and doing dailies, farming for mats, etc is part of 'playing the game' definition for me). If it makes me want to go watch TV (which for the most part is just a mind numbing medication) or be anywhere but in game... yeah, time to not do it. Find something fun in the game to do or do something fun outside in the real world. Life is too short for my 'recreation' not to be enjoyable.

Edit: This is not to say I don't enjoy dailies or whatever. When I'm in the mood for them yeah, I enjoy them, but I do not feel the NEED to do them every day. If I felt I HAD to do them, then yeah, I'd find something else to do. I'm just not that driven to have to do anything for a game unless I'm doing it to benefit someone else I care about.. which in that case it becomes an "I want to" situation. If I want to do dailies, grind rep, farm mats all well and good but if I don't want to, that's cool too.
Edited by Dromboarstag on 12/22/2011 12:26 AM PST
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90 Night Elf Druid
13680
I hate dailies.

I don't believe logging on every day to specifically do something is ideal in a game that has such variety. I also distinctly hate having to farm dailies across multiple characters.

I would love to see the following changes:

1) Dailies are changed to weeklies! Instead of a cap on how many dailies you CAN do, i'd rather see a weekly cap attributed to each faction/rep eg:
30/week Molten Front
20/week Argent Tournament
10/week Oracle or the other one

2) All rep-based items are boa (similar to head enchants); perhaps with a lower requirement to use (such as friendly) if you wish to prevent people seeing it once and done.

I fully understand the purpose behind dailies and don't see a point to their removal; I raid 4 nights a week, I have 7 alts who each completed firelands a few times (not every week heaven forbid but maybe 3 alt runs a week) and will complete DS at some point too. I only tend to PVP on my druid because I don't enjoy pvp enough to do it on alts; so I definitely have my focus, but try to sample everything a bit.
My problem, however, is dailies bore me to tears because I remember what to do and it becomes repetitive (hence I rotate my alts in all 4 roles in current pve content).

I doubt this is a perfect solution but... it's a solution to aid the kind of player who dabbles in things outside progression content (aka me!)
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90 Night Elf Druid
11565
I like alot of the dailies in this game and I REALLY wish they would remove the restriction off of the outdated dailies so that I can do them to my hearts content on whichever character I choose rather than having to toon hop if I want to do more than 25
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