"I already have a job."

90 Troll Shaman
11145
Dailies are fun.. Start the stopwatch at the beginning, try and find ways to complete them as quickly as possible.
Choose ones that make the most side money (skinning, pets for resale, etc)
Figure how to get more than one completed at the same time..
(Wrath was better for this)

About 2 hours total, Shave 30 minutes if you do the Argent tourney ones for the pets also.

25 every day, then herb gathering on my druid until done.
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90 Tauren Death Knight
11095


If you're not getting any fun or entertainment out of the game, don't play the game.

Also, everything is subjective.


Because I definitely said something about not getting any enjoyment out of the game.

Subjective? Find me a person who enjoys doing dailies.


HI! I actually enjoy dailies. gives me something to do rather than sit in org all day waiting for dungeons/lfr. Yes, they feel "grindy", yes I get bored with them. Again, I GET OUT OF ORG, and that's good enough for me
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85 Draenei Priest
9105
12/21/2011 03:37 PMPosted by Bashiok
Not to toot the Mists of Pandaria horn too hard, but I think our general zone design, daily, and scenario approach is pretty solid. Part of what makes dailies a bit tedious, aside from being tedious, is the rewards are desired but may not always quite fit the time investment.


Another thing that annoyed me, during the Wrath -> Cata transition, was the spread-out-ness of dailies.

In Icecrown, I could hit up the tournament, the Skybreaker/Orgim's Hammer (and their respective ground-troop quests) and the Shadow Vault - pick up all I need to, knock them out, turn them it. It was convenient having it all in one zone.

Now?

+ A handful in Twilight Highlands.
+ A handful in Deepholm - after the entire freakin' zone's quest chain.
+ Two in Uldum. Seriously - you wanted us to grind Ram. rep with just the tabard?
+ A handful in Tol Barad - a handful more if your faction happens to hold the Battleground when you're logged in.
+ A hefty number in Hyjal - once you get the Molten Front a'rollin'.

They're all spread out now - a bigger hassle.

What's more, is there's more to do, yet we still retain the cap of 25-dailies-per-day. Bad enough there's more to grind - we're denied the ability to just grind it all and get it out of the way a.s.a.p.

EDIT: Am I an advocate for removing the cap on daily quests? Hell to the yeah.

Don't make it so that the quests can be done numerous times per day (ie, I can't turn in "Glop, Son of Glop", "Shark Tank" or any other daily twice in any one given day, and retain the limit on fishing/cooking dailies - only ONE city or the other, not all 3) - just let us be able to do it all if we want.
Edited by Solaaria on 12/22/2011 12:27 PM PST
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85 Human Rogue
2640
12/21/2011 02:03 PMPosted by Simplyred
That's what gravitates me to PvP. Fighting live people adds a kind of randomness that NPCs can't give.


i agree!
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85 Blood Elf Paladin
5905
And furthermore, what would be a better design for this type of structure?


It's easy to design a better system than dailies, pump out infinite amounts of content, it's just not feasible to pull off.


Ah, but it IS feasible, just not in the traditional matter.

The first thing that comes in order to have a feasible supply of infinite content is to expand on the meaning of what "content" represents. Traditional content comes in the format of quests, dungeons, raids and the like that are specifically designed to be released and relevant for a period of time, the problem with this format is that it gives a limited amount of activities with a limited amount of possibilities presented to the player. In other words, it's like giving fish to a man. But what would it mean then if you taught the man to fish?

"Teaching a man to fish" implies that there would be a way for the players to create content for themselves, thus providing infinite activities and possibilities.

I see at least one way that this could be possible: The players' actions should permanently affect the world they share in a way different to the linear "phasing" format, it could be small things like the power of guards in a settlement or the reagents they can sell in proportion of how they got them (securing trade routes, etc), or big ways like the existence of the settlement itself (like Halaa, but on all contested territories). Effects that the players trigger that are not limited to said players, but instead happen for the entire the game world.

And before any naysayers claim that it is still not feasible because it is limited to PvP or because the game itself has a rigid design that would make this impossible: It already exists at least in a small way, and it does not have to be limited to PvP at all. The best example for it is the quests inside Alterac Valley even if you do not want to encounter enemy players, you can do a lot without confronting them.

I think features such as these are coming in Mists of Pandaria, though I am not sure (the descriptions for them have been a bit ambiguous for me to understand). If so, this is the way you keep WoW from feeling like an endless grind, not by just making new stuff every six months or so, but by making an ever-changing World that can change by itself, thus providing infinite content.

TL;DR: Infinite content is feasible if players are capable of creating it by having their actions affect the world in all sorts of ways.
Edited by Minnerva on 12/22/2011 12:56 PM PST
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85 Blood Elf Paladin
5175
12/21/2011 03:37 PMPosted by Bashiok
And furthermore, what would be a better design for this type of structure?


Infinite content.

It's easy to design a better system than dailies, pump out infinite amounts of content, it's just not feasible to pull off. Some people want to spend more time in the game than others, maybe even every day, and we want to make sure they have something to do. While we'd love for that to be fresh and unique content every time, it's simply not feasible. Thus, dailies. Give people something to do each time they log in (if they choose to do so every day).

Not to toot the Mists of Pandaria horn too hard, but I think our general zone design, daily, and scenario approach is pretty solid. Part of what makes dailies a bit tedious, aside from being tedious, is the rewards are desired but may not always quite fit the time investment. I see quite a bit of that being solved and making sure if you're logging in to do some dailies or scenarios, you feel like you made a good chunk of progress toward advancing your character.


You guys also said that you thought the Molten Front dailies were going to fun and not as tedious as others, yet they were even worse than the Argent Tournament dailies (in my opinion).
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86 Orc Shaman
3380
12/21/2011 03:47 PMPosted by Berelythia
P.S- By the way, dailies are the only way to get guild reputation if you have already done all of the zones.
I'm sure someone has already made mention of this but...

P.s- you also get guild rep for doing dungeons and raids in these things called "guild runs".
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85 Draenei Death Knight
6015
12/22/2011 12:56 PMPosted by Borgore
You guys also said that you thought the Molten Front dailies were going to fun and not as tedious as others, yet they were even worse than the Argent Tournament dailies (in my opinion).
Hey, guess what? That's YOUR opinion. Not fact.
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88 Night Elf Hunter
11095
Dailys are extremely boring. However, that is a personal opinion and everyone has thier own. I personally would like to see dailys gone.

I think another poster had a great idea of the long quest chains to aquire said reputaion with a faction and open up thier rewards. The dailys do feel like jobs. I once had the time to do them on a regular basis, but that was once upon a time.

I and it seems like alot of the other players these days find them to be a grind and therefore very unfulfilling. The rewards are really not that great anymore. The only reason I had done the Molten Front dailys on an alt was to make gold from patterns. That was my only reasoning to complete the 30 days of dailys and open up one vendor and stop. I mean that sounds like a job to me. Doing dailys to get paid. LOL.

Anyway, I would like to request some type of new system in the future. I know the tabards were a great idea but they are not there for every faction and required you to run instance after instance as well.
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28 Gnome Priest
310
If you didn't spend so much time complaining you might have what you wanted already, jus' sayin'.

Edit: ...and please don't take me seriously. I was being a smart-!@#$. :/
Edited by Tritty on 12/22/2011 1:17 PM PST
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85 Orc Warlock
7110
I am not much of a fan of questing in general for a game like WoW and doing it once is more than enough. I enjoy the group based content. I will say though that the leveling for Cata was very short and actually found myself sad and thinking what this is it and now I just have is back to back five mans to hold my time until I jump into a PuG raid. I do not enjoy doing dailies much besides the some of the cooking and fishing dailies while I wait for a queue or something else. Most of the gold I make is just from buying volatiles off the AH and selling threads. Its enough to keep me going and there is no need for me to do dailies.
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90 Gnome Priest
8115
12/21/2011 03:37 PMPosted by Bashiok
Part of what makes dailies a bit tedious, aside from being tedious, is the rewards are desired but may not always quite fit the time investment. I see quite a bit of that being solved and making sure if you're logging in to do some dailies or scenarios, you feel like you made a good chunk of progress toward advancing your character.


This is one of the things that would make dailies more enjoyable. Decrease cost of reward, but increased number, or make a more attractive tiered approach (ie cheat rewards that are still desirable). So a completionist would still have to be on doing the dailies a lot, but a more casual person can miss a week of dailies here or there but still get something for the effort they did put in.

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100 Tauren Warrior
11550
Crepe,

TL;DR Just read the numbered points to catch my drift

I started reading this forum last night and have been mulling it over and wanted to share some thoughts on what makes dailies fun, what makes dailies not fun, and things that I think can improve them.

What makes dailies fun:

1) They provide an alternate path for character progression
2) Vanity rewards for mount/pet/on use item collectors
3) They are an excellent way for individuals who do not play the AH to earn gold
4) They give non raid focused players something to do (or give raiders something else to do)
5) Some quests and quest lines are very engaging and interesting to lore buffs

What makes dailies NOT fun:

1) General repetitiveness of some quests hubs
2) Despite the massive number of daily quests available only a handful, relatively speaking, provide the alternate path to character progression listed as a "fun" point
3) Often times choosing to advance your character means making a choice to do daily quests you do not find enjoyable
4) Some quests and quests are not engaging and fall into the old 'gather these and kill these' quests of old
5) Many daily quests and factions do not offer incentives to keep doing the quests after a player has achieved exalted status, farmed enough emblems, gotten their gear, etc

Elaboration:

I think the big offenders here are points #2,#3, and #4. As a max level player early in Cataclysm I attempted to advance my character's power by earning reputation with Therazane, the Dragonmaw, and so on. Unfortunately I personally found their daily quests (especially therazane) to not follow the new quest design model of the revamped old world and quickly grew tired of completing them.

Now what you could say is that I could always run dungeons to earn rep; fair point but that means I would need to run dungeons over and over again to achieve the results I hoped to get from dailies. This is not necessarily ideal because if I wanted to do dailies then I obviously wanted to do something I could accomplish on my own.

I do believe that many of these issues were addressed with the Molten front dailies however. They offered a varied and random experience keeping things fresh, the general pacing of progression was well done since I did not have to wait till I was 'done' with the molten front to receive all of my rewards, and their were multiple paths I could take and still receive the same level of progression. That was cool and I hope to see more of that.

However, I believe The Molten Front suffered greatly from point #5. After I got my Flameward Hippogryph in the mail and completed the Leandra(?) quest line I thought to myself "Well that was fun, guess its over now." Their was very little reason for me to continue on. The money from the dailies did not particularly woo me (I dabble in the AH and the monetary rewards for the Tol Barad dailies were better anyway), all of the tangible combat rewards had been purchased, and the only thing that The Molten Front offered me was a single pet that RNG may or may not grant me. The experience of the quests were amazing, but I felt that the experience had a more or less definitive end. Something that I do not think works for daily quests.

The Argent Tournament I feel did a much better job in this regard. I for one love the Argent Tournament especially the jousting quests (and I understand I may be in the minority here). I have two characters who have achieved the Crusader title one of which is my Worgen warrior who earned it post Cataclysm. The thing that drives me to go back to the argent tournament are the pets which are incredibly unique and, best of all, trade-able. The ability to use the currency as I see fit while climbing the ranks of the tournament always stuck with me as an awesome design. I could buy pets to collect or sell, I could purchase various upgrades to my gear (Thank you Transmog), I could buy a tabard which provided a semi-second hearth which I use all the time, or I could get my squire a pony!

The thing that unfortunately marred the tournament experience were the quest types, aside from the jousting quests (which at some points you had to complete 4 each day) every single daily was a kill or loot quest.

Things I think would make daily quests better:

1) Make daily quest hubs/faction reputation from quests have a weekly cap

The transition from the daily dungeon rewards to the weekly valor cap has been an immense quality of life improvement and made it so many players (myself included) able to put forth the same effort to achieve rewards but at our own pacing. Why not do this with daily quests? Many of the older dailies from BC and WotLK were gathering or killing quests that could easily be translated into weekly versions and still keep the same pacing of content consumption Blizzard desires. Plus, I could smash those little monkeys for the Ramehkan all day.

2) Have longer quest chains with a specific plot

The molten front did this in the long run given how things turned out for Leandra (Hamuul says hi). Having a central story or plot to follow was a great way to immerse me into the struggle. But I was actually thinking what would it be like if their were more quests like the Thrall or Zandalari ones where players are actively pursuing a specific goal that will aid in the war effort? Each week players could embark on a subset of quests leading to a major victory for the faction you are working for. The following week you could choose to further advance the story by completing another subset of quests or replaying the first set if you enjoyed it (each path would earn you reputation but by completing all the sets of quests you would get the extra reward of seeing the story arc's conclusion.

3) Have rewards that are compelling enough to make players want to continue doing the dailies other for their own sake

Some quests are fun to do just for the sake of doing them, but given this is an RPG I would imagine that many players are goal oriented. Giving them a way to work toward a goal that could benefit alts or giving players another avenue for gold acquisition could go a long way to extending contents life span.

4) Remove the limit on the number of dailies completed for outdated content

There are hundreds of daily quests in the game at the moment, but players are currently forced to choose only 25 of them. From what I can deduce their are 3 reasons to keep the daily limit as is: limiting the rate of content consumption, limiting the amount of gold that is generated each day through daily quests, providing players with meaningful choices during their play time; here is why I think all three are not relevant to non-current content.

Addressing gold inflation first, low level daily quests do not provide much gold for max level players (isn't it somewhere between 1-4 gold per quest?) and reducing further or eliminating the amount of gold players get for these quests I imagine would not be that hard of a fix.

Limiting the rate at which content is consumed makes sense for the current expansion, but since we are going into the fourth expansion of WoW I would imagine that many players have already completed much of the previous expansions content. By lifting the cap on lower level daily quests new players would be inclined to visit old content and veteran players would be inclined to REvisit old content (much like what Transmog has done).

In regards to the issue of player choice, I think this is like debating what choice a player will make between raw power and utility. Players will by and large always choose to increase the power of their character versus gaining a new ability that may be fun or useful in a specific circumstance. Players will almost always choose to do the most recent content in order to advance their power instead of doing older quests that they may actually enjoy more (I'm looking at you IQD bombing quests).

5) Use more unique type quests

The supply caravan run in northern barrens, bombing ashenvale, fending off the alliance air assault in stone talon, mortaring naga in azshara, riding on the back of a dragon while chasing a twilight cultist in deepholm, trampling gnomes in a fiery ball of death in uldum..their were all these awesome quests all through Azeroth. Why didn't we see more of them in daily form?

Conclusion:

Sorry about the long post. I hope this counts as constructive criticism and feedback and not QQ. Let me know what you think about the proposed changes.
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87 Human Mage
9135
Dailies are fun.. Start the stopwatch at the beginning, try and find ways to complete them as quickly as possible.
Choose ones that make the most side money (skinning, pets for resale, etc)
Figure how to get more than one completed at the same time..
(Wrath was better for this)


When you are forced to come up with challenges and rules in order to make something fun, it becomes very clear how unfun that something is. Even doing the dishes could be turned into a "fun game" with that kind of approach.

Dailies are awesome in that they are something that players can do for months, working towards some specific goal(s), that are easy, approachable and doable in their own time, with no group or commitment requirements. But at the same time, they are very repetitive, and that makes them feel grindy at first, and mind-numbing boring later on.
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