Selling Level 25 Guild!

90 Troll Shaman
7340
I currently am sitting on a Level 25 guild I have interest in selling if the price is right.

Free Perks (25) - Alliance Side

If you or anyone you know has interest, feel free to contact me. I might also be willing to toss in some nice perks (Cauldron Achievements, Seafood feast achievement, etc.) if you have interest in those sorts of things.

You can contact me in-game through Catharsis (H) or Catharsislol (A). In-game mail works fine, a reply to this thread also works.

Cheers
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90 Gnome Mage
7995
i may want to buy it, but am wounding why did you kick all the members? kinda seems a little self-centered they level up the guild then you make the gold. I know there only alts but am sure there was a few mains in there i met a few of them and there not happy idk just doesn't seem right.
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90 Human Warrior
11850
So let me get your methods straight Catharsis.

1. Buy up mats from farmers and swindle hard-working players out of their mats using a BS contest where you funnel prizes to your friends.

2. Use mats to make gems/enchants/belt buckles/glyphs. Then crash all of those markets by posting at ridiculously low prices because you're "too busy" to actually undercut properly and you would rather save time by posting hundreds of auctions with one click.

3. Use profits stolen from other GH auctioneers by unreasonable undercutting to purchase a level 25 guild where everyone who worked hard to level the guild was unethically gkicked the day the guild hit level 25.

4. Sell guild. Profit.

You are truly a paragon of the GH community.
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85 Night Elf Druid
7355
So let me get your methods straight Catharsis.

1. Buy up mats from farmers and swindle hard-working players out of their mats using a BS contest where you funnel prizes to your friends.

2. Use mats to make gems/enchants/belt buckles/glyphs. Then crash all of those markets by posting at ridiculously low prices because you're "too busy" to actually undercut properly and you would rather save time by posting hundreds of auctions with one click.

3. Use profits stolen from other GH auctioneers by unreasonable undercutting to purchase a level 25 guild where everyone who worked hard to level the guild was unethically gkicked the day the guild hit level 25.

4. Sell guild. Profit.

You are truly a paragon of the GH community.

lol
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90 Troll Shaman
7340
So let me get your methods straight Catharsis.

1. Buy up mats from farmers and swindle hard-working players out of their mats using a BS contest where you funnel prizes to your friends.

2. Use mats to make gems/enchants/belt buckles/glyphs. Then crash all of those markets by posting at ridiculously low prices because you're "too busy" to actually undercut properly and you would rather save time by posting hundreds of auctions with one click.

3. Use profits stolen from other GH auctioneers by unreasonable undercutting to purchase a level 25 guild where everyone who worked hard to level the guild was unethically gkicked the day the guild hit level 25.

4. Sell guild. Profit.

You are truly a paragon of the GH community.


Well, lets break this down point by point.

1) I ran a contest, which, ended up actually losing me gold! Totally ripping people off. In that regard, I'm happy to provide both winner lists and full spreadsheets from said competition. All prizes were afforded fairly, we had multiple folks at the prize awards ceremony. I ran that competition fully above boards, so please, don't hurl accusations my way without at the very least having some actual information.

2) This is a point where I am REALLY confused. All those items I sell, I generally make at least 20% profit on. To argue I'm *crashing* a market suggests that the price of raw materials and finished products is far from equilibrium, which is mostly true.

When people allow such discrepancies to exist, it either means there is a) collusion amongst competing parties, or b) they are plain stupid. In either case, you invite competition. I won't post something at a loss, so whatever you see on the AH is indeed within profit margins for me.

I'll "undercut properly" when you aren't gouging the market for 100%+ profit. Until then, get under me or get off the AH, either way I don't care.

3) I'll skip the point where somehow profits gained by me undercutting are "ill-gained", as I'm not sure how to respond. Of the guilds I have purchased up to now, never once have I removed members en masse, looted a bank for my own profits, or anything else along those lines.

It's the job of the seller to come to me with their guild. If members still exist, I leave them there. If the guild bank is still full, so be it, members have access. What the seller and buyer do with the guild however is not my concern, I only handle the business of middle-manning.

4) Why else would I engage in a venture if there WASN'T profits, good lord.

As for being a paragon, I'll ignore the sarcasm and thank you. I have been on this realm since... well, quite literally day one.

Finally, lets not let it go unnoticed that your problems with me stem entirely from the AH. As my interaction with you has been limited at best, your post is nothing more than vengeful aspirations stemming from getting buried on the AH in my nearest estimation. Certainly next time I hope you do a bit of fact checking before you spew forth whatever slander and vitriol you can come up with at a moment's notice.
Edited by Catharsis on 12/28/2011 2:23 PM PST
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90 Troll Shaman
7340
i may want to buy it, but am wounding why did you kick all the members? kinda seems a little self-centered they level up the guild then you make the gold. I know there only alts but am sure there was a few mains in there i met a few of them and there not happy idk just doesn't seem right.


In the case of Free Perks, the seller came to me with the guild entirely empty (both bank and members). It's important to note in these transactions that it is the rank of Guild Master that I am both purchasing and selling, not the guild itself.
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90 Gnome Mage
10945
For Clarity, seeing as I'm rather unsure with my current relationship with Catharsis for reasons unimportant to this forum...


The GM of Free Perks was Touchmy, or Lethotix before being sold to Catharsis.
Edited by Prodigal on 12/28/2011 3:14 PM PST
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90 Human Warrior
11850
1. In what way did you lose money from your contest? I find it funny that in the very next point you claim that you make a profit on all of your sales, but yet claim to lose money on a contest that garnered you the mats to first begin your current manipulation of these markets. There are other people that have been here from the beginning and watch the market just as closely as yourself, and I am one of them.

2. Don't care what your profit margins are, and there is no way to verify what you actually pay. I'm sure you get mats much cheaper than most of GH, and you are free to give away any extra profit that potentially could be made to anyone you want, including back to the buyer in the form of a cheaper price.

What I do know is that your mass posting at prices that are significantly lower than the average price shows none of the AH acumen you claim to possess, and instead exemplifies either a complete disregard for the hard work of the rest of the GH community or just plain laziness. GH does not need you price fixing, the market will take care of itself.

Note that I really don't care about the above two points. You have been doing that in the AH since way before this post. I had alts in Free Perks, and it was this post and your recent spamming of the trade channel to buy level 25s that prompted me to post. On to the real point...

3. I get what you're saying. That guild is clean because it already changed hands once. Where it came from is not your problem. The fact that the people you claim to be helping by fixing prices in the AH were the same people that were injured when 400+ guildies were gkicked, well that's not your problem either. DeBeers should try that argument with blood diamonds.

Get your story straight. If you want to hold yourself up as a GH community leader and do podcasts about your AH brilliance, you might not want to dabble in this particular loophole. If you want to run the GH AH any way you see fit, you might want to stop waffling.

Either way, see you in the AH!
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90 Night Elf Hunter
8655
I competed in Cath's contest and i will say there were not many of us because some people thought it was cool to troll/complain about it.

he gave away great prizes which in my mind were worth WAY more than all the mats he got in total from the few of us. so that is what he's saying about losing gold from the contest. hopefully you saw the prizes.

and to finish this off, stop your complaining and just play the AH how you want to play it. It's fake money. no need to get mad at someone who is doing better.
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90 Troll Shaman
7340
1. In what way did you lose money from your contest? I find it funny that in the very next point you claim that you make a profit on all of your sales, but yet claim to lose money on a contest that garnered you the mats to first begin your current manipulation of these markets. There are other people that have been here from the beginning and watch the market just as closely as yourself, and I am one of them.


I gave away a Haunted Memento, Reins of the Crimson Deathcharger, Hyacinth Macaw, 1 Valor bracers, 3 other pets, 4 Illusionary Bags, an Orb of Deception, and I think that covers it. Overall there were roughly 3k points gathered, where point were worth roughly 25g a piece. If you math it, I'm sure you will see how I lost a bit.

Not that I minded, I had fun running a competition of sorts. One of my fondest WoW memories was the AQ gates opening event held on my original server of Lagtheridon which was a farming content. So hey, I tried to bring back a little magic myself.

2. Don't care what your profit margins are, and there is no way to verify what you actually pay. I'm sure you get mats much cheaper than most of GH, and you are free to give away any extra profit that potentially could be made to anyone you want, including back to the buyer in the form of a cheaper price.

What I do know is that your mass posting at prices that are significantly lower than the average price shows none of the AH acumen you claim to possess, and instead exemplifies either a complete disregard for the hard work of the rest of the GH community or just plain laziness. GH does not need you price fixing, the market will take care of itself.

Note that I really don't care about the above two points. You have been doing that in the AH since way before this post. I had alts in Free Perks, and it was this post and your recent spamming of the trade channel to buy level 25s that prompted me to post. On to the real point...


Well, let me offer you just one reason why I prefer my pricing methods. By forcing the profit margins on processed goods down to a point where buying raw materials off the AH and converting them into a finished product nets little to no profit, I've effectively killed off any large-scale competitors. The only people I'm then competing with are a) people able to obtain mats at MY prices, b) people farming their own mats and converting them into finished products or c) people who have mats stockpiled and have to eat the cost.

Your pricing methodology, while admittedly popular amongst the gold-making community, runs counter to most business and economic models that I adhere to. The belief that all goods in wow are inelastic I personally believe to be untrue, and thus I price goods accordingly.

Get your story straight. If you want to hold yourself up as a GH community leader and do podcasts about your AH brilliance, you might not want to dabble in this particular loophole. If you want to run the GH AH any way you see fit, you might want to stop waffling.


Loophole, its another business model. In TBC I sold arena rating/points and the guild I raided with sold tier gear. Certainly these were frowned upon by some (unearned gear, etc.) but a business opportunity through and through.

There is nothing brilliant about my AH strategy, I simply process bulk amounts of goods and price them such that most my competition is unable to compete. My logistics and infrastructure however is where I do take pride, as running such a large AH operation requires a lot of resources and planning.

As for the podcasts, I don't believe I've participated in those for ages; but thanks for being a listener when I did!
Edited by Catharsis on 12/29/2011 4:10 AM PST
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90 Human Warrior
11850
Excellent use of quotes to appear to answer all the questions, while deftly skirting the issue which I clearly state to be the main one at hand here. Let me help you add the part that you missed.

I had alts in Free Perks, and it was this post and your recent spamming of the trade channel to buy level 25s that prompted me to post. On to the real point...

3. I get what you're saying. That guild is clean because it already changed hands once. Where it came from is not your problem. The fact that the people you claim to be helping by fixing prices in the AH were the same people that were injured when 400+ guildies were gkicked, well that's not your problem either. DeBeers should try that argument with blood diamonds.


Care to respond to the point that what you are selling in fact was obtained in an unethical manner, and that you cannot deny knowledge of that manner? It is not the same as selling arena points or tier gear. The persons involved in those ventures have full knowledge of what their investment in time and effort involve. Unlike an arena match or running a raid, the persons that were involved in the work of leveling that guild you are selling did not know that they would be removed the day it hit 25, and did not receive any compensation for their efforts. Almost fits the definition of "ninja", huh? And you cannot deny knowledge of that fact.

At least you came clean about the AH. You are trying to force the small sellers completely out of the market. You are attempting to be the Wal-Mart of GH. But now lets be honest about what you're doing with the guilds. You could care less about the rest of GH, whether that means making it impossible for them to make some gold on the AH, or, even worse, if the things you are selling were earned on the backs of people that got screwed.
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85 Goblin Priest
2050
Undercutting by one copper, Playing the AH to give yourself a 100-200% profit margin, doesn't really work well... when there are people who can post the same auctions, for a 20-40% profit margin and be happy that there auctions sale (even if the competitor is trying to buy them out so that they can then gouge the market).

As far as selling the GM position of a guild, It's a commodity that a few are wiling to pay for. It's also an investment in having members of the guild earn you gold over a long term process. It also allows you to use the perks for benefits, including extra materials from many of the gathering professions. If you want to relate it to a real world business ideal, it's like a franchise. Someone else works to establish the name and the business models. All you do is buy the license, offer the same thing that 100s of other business owners offer, and then reap in the profits.

As far as the contest goes, I didn't participate, so I have no input. I do know in my dealings with Catharsis, he's always been forthcoming on what he intends to do with the materials he buys. People choose to sell to him, because it's a guaranteed sale, and it eliminates the constant need to overlook a market that just folds unto itself.

If you're really worried about profit margins, feel free to start stockpiling raw materials for MoP, just like any expansion, new players will need those materials to level up the professions... So two-eight months after the expansion, you'll be able to reap the benefits from your investment now.


Oh, and Hello.
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90 Human Warrior
11850
12/29/2011 07:17 AMPosted by Naughtynurse
If you want to relate it to a real world business ideal, it's like a franchise. Someone else works to establish the name and the business models. All you do is buy the license, offer the same thing that 100s of other business owners offer, and then reap in the profits.


Not really. Franchisees have rights, two of which are the very ones I stated above. A right to be fully informed as to the nature of their deal/contract and a right to compensation for their efforts. And this is WoW, not RL, so I would refrain from RL comparisons.
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90 Human Warrior
11850
Dynamite drop-in there scruff. If you bother to read the post before you start trolling you would see that my problem is with the sale of the guild. I am used to Cath ruining the GH market and I still make my cash.

Now go troll elsewhere, the big people are talking.
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90 Human Warrior
11850
Please stay off the post if you can't be bothered to read.

Your question has not only been answered but quoted twice in addition.
Edited by Swampypants on 12/29/2011 2:11 PM PST
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