Gurth: Far more broken in pvp/pve than DWTR

90 Dwarf Paladin
16700


I'm not saying any class should "suffer" - merely pointing out that that non-melee attacks which are allowed to proc something that clearly says its procced on melee attacks is contradictory.


If you go look at even just the talent: http://www.wowhead.com/spell=85126/seals-of-command

It deals weapon damage on top of our abilities which trigger seal stacks on our target. This is how it's been for Shadowmourne, Tiny Abomination in a Jar, Varo'then's Brooch...the list could go on. And, this is what we have needed to keep items like these competitive for us alongside other melee classes.

And now it's changed on a whim and regarded as a "fix"...


Clearly if ret's damage is dropping, it must be a fix.

Seals of Command and the application/weapon damage hit from Seal of Truth (Note: Censure is the dot applied by SoT, which has never procced gurth), are both considered melee hits, and thus should proc things like Gurth, and like they did before TAJ and SM. This "bug" was never a bug, which is roughly why I imagine it was never "fixed" for the aforementioned items in ICC.
100 Undead Warrior
11750
If you go look at even just the talent: http://www.wowhead.com/spell=85126/seals-of-command

It deals weapon damage on top of our abilities which trigger seal stacks on our target. This is how it's been for Shadowmourne, Tiny Abomination in a Jar, Varo'then's Brooch...the list could go on. And, this is what we have needed to keep items like these competitive for us alongside other melee classes.

And now it's changed on a whim and regarded as a "fix"...


Just because an attack does weapon damage does not mean its a melee attack. Rend deals a percentage of weapon damage - so does deep wounds - neither of which can proc gurth.
90 Dwarf Paladin
16700
If you go look at even just the talent: http://www.wowhead.com/spell=85126/seals-of-command

It deals weapon damage on top of our abilities which trigger seal stacks on our target. This is how it's been for Shadowmourne, Tiny Abomination in a Jar, Varo'then's Brooch...the list could go on. And, this is what we have needed to keep items like these competitive for us alongside other melee classes.

And now it's changed on a whim and regarded as a "fix"...


Just because an attack does weapon damage does not mean its a melee attack. Rend deals a percentage of weapon damage - so does deep wounds - neither of which can proc gurth.


It has always been considered a melee attack. The quote in the initial blizz post even stated so. This "bug" was only "fixed" because they didn't like our ability to proc the sword and actually do competitive dps or whatever the case may be. There wasn't even a whisper about this "bug" for TAJ and SM. We are nowhere near GCD capped with "melee" attacks like warriors, nor do we get the benefit of your mastery or unholy's mastery for the sword. It's damage contribution has been completely gutted for us for no legitimate reason, while it remains just as "OP" as it has ever been for everyone else using it.

Edit: To above poster, I'm 99% sure it's an overnight hot"fix" and is already in place, bro.
Edited by Fredzilla on 1/5/2012 10:48 AM PST
85 Blood Elf Paladin
10735
If you go look at even just the talent: http://www.wowhead.com/spell=85126/seals-of-command

It deals weapon damage on top of our abilities which trigger seal stacks on our target. This is how it's been for Shadowmourne, Tiny Abomination in a Jar, Varo'then's Brooch...the list could go on. And, this is what we have needed to keep items like these competitive for us alongside other melee classes.

And now it's changed on a whim and regarded as a "fix"...


Just because an attack does weapon damage does not mean its a melee attack. Rend deals a percentage of weapon damage - so does deep wounds - neither of which can proc gurth.


Rend's bleed is "based on weapon damage"...and the same goes for Deep Wounds--it is a bleed tick that is "based on weapon damage". (Deep Wounds is also possibly causing tentacle procs, I don't believe it should be ruled out completely.)

This "weapon damage" seen in our seal tooltips has always been there and has always been necessary for Ret and other items like this, and now it's gone on this weapon.
90 Human Paladin
10480
The hotfix is live (SoT does NOT proc a tentacle, and for this weapon ONLY, SoT is not a melee attack. Funny, because it is for Shadowmourne....)

The change for the tentacle duration is for the PTR. 12 second tentacles are NOT live currently.
90 Blood Elf Paladin
9465
Just curious - since censure is no longer considered physical damage in the eyes of procs, does this mean that the whirlwind shared drop trinket just got curb stomped too?

Bone-Link Fetish
Edited by Holycrít on 1/5/2012 11:41 AM PST
85 Blood Elf Paladin
4595
I understand that this was most likely an unintended buff from SoT, and I understand why the nerf was implemented. However, I am curious as to why Ret Paladins are brought back to the base 2% proc chance, yet Arms warrior Mastery still gives them a higher chance to proc the weapon above 2%, and Unholy DKs Mastery just flat out buffs the damage the proc does. Basically, Ret paladins get the flat proc and nothing more than that, but other specs have some way of gaining a benefit beyond just the flat proc. It just does not seem right to me, especially considering how long Retribution has been quite unimpressive for raid DPS for this expansion.
85 Tauren Paladin
0
id just like a statement on whether 0-1 procs per fight is appropriate for the sword
90 Dwarf Paladin
16700
01/05/2012 11:29 AMPosted by Briccio
I understand that this was most likely an unintended buff from SoT, and I understand why the nerf was implemented. However, I am curious as to why Ret Paladins are brought back to the base 2% proc chance, yet Arms warrior Mastery still gives them a higher chance to proc the weapon above 2%, and Unholy DKs Mastery just flat out buffs the damage the proc does. Basically, Ret paladins get the flat proc and nothing more than that, but other specs have some way of gaining a benefit beyond just the flat proc. It just does not seem right to me, especially considering how long Retribution has been quite unimpressive for raid DPS for this expansion.


It was never unintended. It's worked that way for at LEAST 2 years now. Some guy's just mad and complaining and blizz was ready and raring to go for another round of nerf ret. It was never bug before, but now that someone's mad about it, it is.
85 Troll Druid
10695

FYI, if this was supposed to be an "adjustment" to Gurth for PvP reasons, please explain why the tentacles are receiving a 2 second boost to its duration?


Duration go up, damage go down. An adjustment to the burstiness of the proc, I'd imagine.
100 Draenei Paladin
17330
01/05/2012 11:39 AMPosted by Derpyderpy
Take note how this was hotfixed right away


As much as I dislike jumping on the mindless allegations train I'm starting to believe this. Retribution has an edge with Gurth via their Seal mechanic, which has always worked in that manner for every other type of proc, and it's hotfixed right away as if it were some sort of emergency.

Yet other more pressing issues continue on without attention, I think they have a task force just for monitoring Ret.

/sigh
Edited by Cadenbrie on 1/5/2012 11:57 AM PST
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