Gurth: Far more broken in pvp/pve than DWTR

90 Draenei Warrior
14695
Isn't it a bit hypocritical for Rets to actually like this sword and it's proccy nature? I would think you'd relish having something else as BiS.
85 Human Paladin
7460
A lot of the time I'm mainspec Prot and Offspec Ret for Raids so sure if I could get an equivalent ilevel weapon with stats I'd be a bit happier with the less random damage...

However, I'd have to be extremely lucky and get a group with a bear tank and absolutely no other plate wearers when a 2 hander dropped. It's how I got last tier's weapon from Shannox
90 Dwarf Paladin
16700
01/08/2012 12:56 PMPosted by Elidra
Isn't it a bit hypocritical for Rets to actually like this sword and it's proccy nature? I would think you'd relish having something else as BiS.

Know what we like more than lack of RNG?

DPS.


Competitive DPS at that.
85 Blood Elf Paladin
10115
I just want to know why DKs and warriors are allowed to benefit from extra bonuses when it comes to the proc (mastery scaling, crit), yet ret paladins are not.
Well, we could stack Crit. Of course, it didn't do much before, and is a complete waste now (in terms of boosting Gurth's damage). If I moved everything from Mastery to Crit, I'd go from my current 10.77% Crit (unbuffed) to about 13.5% - still less than an arms warrior.
90 Dwarf Paladin
16700
01/08/2012 02:43 PMPosted by Lobster
I just want to know why DKs and warriors are allowed to benefit from extra bonuses when it comes to the proc (mastery scaling, crit), yet ret paladins are not.


Because they aren't ret paladins?
100 Goblin Warlock
19095
They should let the mind flay ticks from the tentacle proc HoL. You know since the other 2 get interactions from crit and mastery.
90 Human Warrior
0
LOL@Ciaro.
90 Blood Elf Paladin
12870



It is a bug because Ret has 2x the chance for it to proc off every attack unlike any other melee. No other melee has that interaction with Gurth.


This is true, and has been fixed. Gurthalak should not proc off of Censure.

For other classes, the sword overall does the damage we intend, but it's variable, so a few spectacular numbers are occasionally posted. Those shouldn’t be accepted as typical. Likewise, random burst can sometimes cause high damage in PvP, but we don’t think those situations with Gurthalak are reliable or severe enough to be a balance problem.


how is it working as intended with other classes if Arms warriors Mastery gives them another melee strike?
during raid this week his tentacle was his 2nd in damage doing 1.2mil damage while mine was 7th and only doing 500k. if the "proc" is suppose to be close to each other for every class then why is his doing 1.2 million damage and mines doing 500k when I have more up time on the boss? (is it because 80% of his attacks are melee? and I have 3 spells that are all melee while everything else is spells.)

and we never got an official answer about the trinkets/landslide being able to proc with Seal of Truth still.



  • Retribution paladin damage for players without Gurthalak is where we intended it to be. We expect Retribution damage with this change to also end up where we intend it to be. If damage falls unacceptably low for some reason, we will certainly consider taking additional measures.


  • how much damage were we intended to do with and without the sword? because as far as I can tell it's saying "we wanted you to do a little more dps then someone who didn't have the sword." if you're always intending for our damage to be low and sub par then it's always going to be there.

    When this SoT nerf came out I wasn't even getting the tentacle to proc on some fights.

    maybe the sword needs to be looked at again instead of just nerfing one class and letting it benefit every other class that can use it... if the Sword it self was the problem then it should have been the sword getting fixed and not a specific class being singled out because now people can't even keep up with the Arms warriors DPS that have gurth.
    Edited by Gàara on 1/8/2012 8:20 PM PST
    100 Blood Elf Warrior
    16380
    *has gurth finally*

    /happydance
    85 Blood Elf Paladin
    9410
    while we're on the topic of ret and the devs are reading this thread..

    i implore you, please give the paladin talents in mists of pandaria the dk treatment

    every talent is either a rehashed talent from the current ret tree or some bluntly overpowered ability like fist of justice that is begging to be nerfed

    i want to be excited about 5.0, i look at the deathknight talents and i see really cool looking abilities that are brand new to the game

    i look at paladins and i see the current talent tree, in not certain there is even a new activatable abilities, when you disclude the hammer of justice upgrade that will be nerfed as soon as pvp feedback comes in
    33 Human Paladin
    0
    Off-specced ilvl 380-something fury-warrior with one Gurth in main hand:
    So is it normal that a warrior gets his damage buffed by 20% with a proc? And his proc out damages mine by almost 4 times (it would be even more if I didn’t vastly out-gear him and if he had two Gurths).


    You do realize that Zon'ozz is a horrific way to gauge a warrior's capability with the sword, right? When you push him to the Black Blood phase, there is a constant stream of incoming damage, of which warriors thrive like mad (see Ultraxion), and can spam the everliving hell out of his attacks. You need a log from a fight where he's NOT getting big phases of almost unlimited rage for a fair comparison, like Hagara, Morchok, etc.

    Warriors are GCD capped regardless of unlimited rage. And even if they weren't, Zin'ozz and Ultraxion (btw, those are not the only ones with raid-wide damage; see Madness, Spine, and even Hagara and heroic Morchock have constant raid damage) are still end-raid bosses and shouldn't be disregarded.

    You may or may not trust me, but on every other boss that warrior was DPSing, he was getting ~20% DPS from the proc. And I would include all of them in my post if it didn't require me to translate the names of the abilities since I play on Russian client.


    Eh I tested in this weeks raid (maybe RNG gods loved me?). The nerf isn't THAT detrimental to dps. It still outperforms the various counterparts to it honestly

    Numbers please.

    01/08/2012 12:45 PMPosted by Arturadel
    Isn't it a bit hypocritical for Rets to actually like this sword and it's proccy nature? I would think you'd relish having something else as BiS.

    I personally would. But it's the only ilvl 416 weapon. Blizzard deliberately made only one 2h weapon of this level so that every single plate DPS was using it. Yet, only Rets get 4.5% benefit from it, while others get 20%.
    Edited by Floating on 1/8/2012 8:26 PM PST
    90 Dwarf Paladin
    16700
    01/08/2012 08:58 PMPosted by Crazyrussian
    I honestly can't believe they would nerf Rets like this at the time when most hardcore guilds are progressing on heroic Ultraxion....


    Why would that stop them? I'd think most progression guilds would be used to not wanting ret paladins by now.
    85 Orc Warrior
    4845
    Honestly, I've never seen anything close to 20% of my damage from this proc. Not even remotely close. Not in Arms, not in Fury. Yes, I have the LFR version but I don't think the damage is that significantly greater on the normal version. I'm lucky to see 10%, very lucky. 6-8% is the norm.
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