Gurth: Far more broken in pvp/pve than DWTR

90 Draenei Warrior
14695
01/08/2012 09:20 PMPosted by Bloodletters
Honestly, I've never seen anything close to 20% of my damage from this proc. Not even remotely close. Not in Arms, not in Fury. Yes, I have the LFR version but I don't think the damage is that significantly greater on the normal version. I'm lucky to see 10%, very lucky. 6-8% is the norm.


You should be proud of the fact that you actually know how to play your class. And boy do these new shoulders make my hair stand out over my old ones.
85 Blood Elf Paladin
10115
01/08/2012 09:05 PMPosted by Fredzilla
Why would that stop them? I'd think most progression guilds would be used to not wanting ret paladins by now.


Wrong.
33 Human Paladin
0
01/08/2012 09:20 PMPosted by Bloodletters
Honestly, I've never seen anything close to 20% of my damage from this proc. Not even remotely close. Not in Arms, not in Fury.

Right, we just gonna take your word for it.
90 Dwarf Paladin
16700
01/08/2012 09:56 PMPosted by Lobster
Why would that stop them? I'd think most progression guilds would be used to not wanting ret paladins by now.


Wrong.


Wrong that they wouldn't be used to it or wrong that they shouldn't want ret?
85 Blood Elf Paladin
10115
01/08/2012 11:48 PMPosted by Fredzilla
Wrong that they wouldn't be used to it or wrong that they shouldn't want ret?


That they shouldn't want ret. Ret is still a powerful burst spec and a lot of these heroic fights require burst at certain invervals. Heroic Spine is a good example.
90 Blood Elf Paladin
12870

In the end, Paladins were getting too much out of the sword, in comparison to warriors and dk's, but they went too far with it, BUT they cannot simply jack the sword or all 3 specs end up in the gutter with probably zero fixes until 5.0. They took the easy way out, piss off 1 class vs. 3. The other weapons off DW need buffed to be comparable to Gurth and if they are going to keep making proc style weapons like this, Paladins need another "filler" attack in their rotations that can accommodate this without causing issues like this from coming up again.


sorry but I would rather them nerf the sword and have all the plate dps complain about it instead of nerfing the one class they always seem to nerf (which reminds me of the daily blink picture I saw about "which class to buff/nerf") we were stuck in wrath with sub par dps and finally getting a break in catalysm and they push us to sub par dps again...
90 Pandaren Warrior
15145

In the end, Paladins were getting too much out of the sword, in comparison to warriors and dk's, but they went too far with it, BUT they cannot simply jack the sword or all 3 specs end up in the gutter with probably zero fixes until 5.0. They took the easy way out, piss off 1 class vs. 3. The other weapons off DW need buffed to be comparable to Gurth and if they are going to keep making proc style weapons like this, Paladins need another "filler" attack in their rotations that can accommodate this without causing issues like this from coming up again.


sorry but I would rather them nerf the sword and have all the plate dps complain about it instead of nerfing the one class they always seem to nerf (which reminds me of the daily blink picture I saw about "which class to buff/nerf") we were stuck in wrath with sub par dps and finally getting a break in catalysm and they push us to sub par dps again...


Ret damage was too high with Gurth, and was brought down as they see fit. I don't know why you want to see everyone else brought down too?
90 Dwarf Paladin
16700
Wrong that they wouldn't be used to it or wrong that they shouldn't want ret?


That they shouldn't want ret. Ret is still a powerful burst spec and a lot of these heroic fights require burst at certain invervals. Heroic Spine is a good example.


Well then yes, I know that, and I know that ret isn't terrible by any means. That was m,ore a cynical joke about how the past 7 years have been for ret, as far as being a legitimate viable dps that's worth bringing.

Edit: To above poster, it's because we were only getting a fairly low % of procs higher than arms who was still doing 2-3k dps better than ret overall. And, as has been pointed out several times in this thread, due to unholy's mastery and arms' mastery and crit, mainly, the small gap that had existed between those 3 before would have more than evened out the difference from ret's ability to proc, since tentacles scale from UH mastery, proc off arms mastery and crit based on the person's crit %, of which arms has more than either of the others.
Edited by Fredzilla on 1/9/2012 7:39 AM PST
90 Worgen Druid
11265
the issue as someone alot more knowledgable than me explained earlier is gruthalak not ret pallies. yes the fix was needed. they are always needed. but the way the fix was implemented is the issue cuz rather than change the way to sword works or rather than make it so ret procs it less without gimping them in 5 other areas (that arent bugs) they basically nerfed ret that it didnt just loose extra procs on the sword but others as well.
85 Orc Warrior
4845
Honestly, I've never seen anything close to 20% of my damage from this proc. Not even remotely close. Not in Arms, not in Fury.

Right, we just gonna take your word for it.


Better than taking the word of someone hiding behind an alt.
Edited by Bloodletters on 1/9/2012 8:49 AM PST
90 Human Paladin
15265
We wernt topping the charts, we were competitive? Why is that a bad thing? We're not fire mages.
90 Blood Elf Paladin
12870


sorry but I would rather them nerf the sword and have all the plate dps complain about it instead of nerfing the one class they always seem to nerf (which reminds me of the daily blink picture I saw about "which class to buff/nerf") we were stuck in wrath with sub par dps and finally getting a break in catalysm and they push us to sub par dps again...


Ret damage was too high with Gurth, and was brought down as they see fit. I don't know why you want to see everyone else brought down too?



see you don't like the idea of Gurth getting nerfed because you just got it this week, but if your class got nerfed instead of trying equalizing the proc for each class then you would be complaining too.
85 Blood Elf Paladin
10115
The problem is this: the sword was granting bonuses to all 3 2H melee classes, yet the bonus was taken away from ret and ret alone.


Warrior's Gurth bonus is that the proc works with their mastery and inflated crit values.

DK's Gurth bonus is that the proc scales with their mastery.

Ret's Gurth "bonus" was a very small chance to possibly proc the tentacle more often, which is basically what Gurth does with the Arms warrior strike mastery (who already have insane damage output in DS).


If Gurth is intended to be the only i416 2H weapon in the game, why does it support bonuses for DKs and warriors while at the same time denying ret any kind of bonus and, on top of that, guaranteeing a much lower proc rate than either DKs or warriors?

The problem is the sword, not the spec.

Fix the weapon to be even between DKs, warriors, and paladins.
Edited by Lobster on 1/9/2012 1:54 PM PST
90 Human Paladin
15265
The problem is this: the sword was granting bonuses to all 3 2H melee classes, yet the bonus was taken away from ret and ret alone.


Warrior's Gurth bonus is that the proc works with their mastery and inflated crit values.

DK's Gurth bonus is that the proc scales with their mastery.

Ret's Gurth "bonus" was a very small chance to possibly proc the tentacle more often, which is basically what Gurth does with the strikes mastery for Arms warriors (which already have insane damage output in DS).


If Gurth is intended to be the only i416 2H weapon in the game, why does it support bonuses for DKs and warriors while at the same time denying ret any kind of bonus and, on top of that, guaranteeing a much lower proc rate than either DKs or warriors?

The problem is the sword, not the spec.

Fix the weapon to be even between DKs, warriors, and paladins.


Agreed, if its to be even dont give any class an extra perk for having it anymore
85 Blood Elf Paladin
2650
i don't even get tentacle procs hardly anymore.
90 Dwarf Paladin
16700
The problem is this: the sword was granting bonuses to all 3 2H melee classes, yet the bonus was taken away from ret and ret alone.


Warrior's Gurth bonus is that the proc works with their mastery and inflated crit values.

DK's Gurth bonus is that the proc scales with their mastery.

Ret's Gurth "bonus" was a very small chance to possibly proc the tentacle more often, which is basically what Gurth does with the Arms warrior strike mastery (who already have insane damage output in DS).


If Gurth is intended to be the only i416 2H weapon in the game, why does it support bonuses for DKs and warriors while at the same time denying ret any kind of bonus and, on top of that, guaranteeing a much lower proc rate than either DKs or warriors?

The problem is the sword, not the spec.

Fix the weapon to be even between DKs, warriors, and paladins.

They should just give it an incredibly high proc chance (like 30%) and an ICD, if this is how they're going to do it. At the very least, then it'll proc roughly the same for everyone.

Also, don't let it crit or scale with mastery. Done, balanced.


Makes too much sense.
85 Blood Elf Paladin
10115
The problem is this: the sword was granting bonuses to all 3 2H melee classes, yet the bonus was taken away from ret and ret alone.


Warrior's Gurth bonus is that the proc works with their mastery and inflated crit values.

DK's Gurth bonus is that the proc scales with their mastery.

Ret's Gurth "bonus" was a very small chance to possibly proc the tentacle more often, which is basically what Gurth does with the Arms warrior strike mastery (who already have insane damage output in DS).


If Gurth is intended to be the only i416 2H weapon in the game, why does it support bonuses for DKs and warriors while at the same time denying ret any kind of bonus and, on top of that, guaranteeing a much lower proc rate than either DKs or warriors?

The problem is the sword, not the spec.

Fix the weapon to be even between DKs, warriors, and paladins.

They should just give it an incredibly high proc chance (like 30%) and an ICD, if this is how they're going to do it. At the very least, then it'll proc roughly the same for everyone.

Also, don't let it crit or scale with mastery. Done, balanced.


It's really that easy too. This is how they should have coded the sword from the beginning.
85 Blood Elf Paladin
2650
i agree and make the iCD like 20 secs or 25 secs or something.
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