Gurth: Far more broken in pvp/pve than DWTR

85 Goblin Priest
2740
double-you tee eff is a gurth, and why should I worry about it.
100 Goblin Warlock
18060
It is a bug because Ret has 2x the chance for it to proc off every attack unlike any other melee. No other melee has that interaction with Gurth.

Inequality isn't a bug. We got a huge amount of use out of TAiaJ, too, and for the same reason. That wasn't a bug either.


If you had read my post earlier I told you don't bother explaining it to them, but alas now you're stuck dealing with people who think it's a bug etc. The only spec who doesn't really get a little extra from the new weapon is arms and TECHNICALLY I think the sword can proc off Arms mastery as well. So let's see:

Arms: procs off 2h hit x1 and mastery procs(not 100% sure but pretty sure from my warrior)
Fury: can wield 2
UH: Mastery boosts it
Ret: Can proc off SoT

Other specs can wield 2 madness weapons other than the sword.

So by that logic then we should limit DW specs to share a proc cd on both weapons if they have 2 weapons with a proc on them and remove the mastery bonus that both UH and arms get from it.

OR we could just leave it proc'ing off SoT and leave all those other things. Sounds pretty fair to me.
Edited by Purebalance on 1/2/2012 5:28 PM PST
100 Goblin Warlock
18060


If you had read my post earlier I told you don't bother explaining it to them, but alas now you're stuck dealing with people who think it's a bug etc. The only spec who doesn't really get a little extra from the new weapon is arms and TECHNICALLY I think the sword can proc off Arms mastery as well. So let's see:

Arms: procs off 2h hit x1 and mastery procs(not 100% sure but pretty sure from my warrior)
Fury: can wield 2
UH: Mastery boosts it
Ret: Can proc off SoT
Frost(just for lawls): can wield 2

Other specs can wield 2 madness weapons other than the sword.

So by that logic then we should limit DW specs to share a proc cd on both weapons if they have 2 weapons with a proc on them and remove the mastery bonus that both UH and arms get from it.

OR we could just leave it proc'ing off SoT and leave all those other things. Sounds pretty fair to me.


Fury doesn't want to yield 2.

-1


Just showing the potential. Also typo'd the frost in there when I meant for a 1h with a proc being dw'd.
90 Human Paladin
10930
http://us.battle.net/wow/en/forum/topic/2089109057?page=1#1

"However, with the above change in mind we are also going to nerf the Shard of Woe trinket to halve the mana savings for Arcane spells only. It's still a fantastic trinket for Arcane mages even with the reduction."

That proves literally nothing. They didn't remove the inequality, they reduced it. SoW was still far superior for Arcane than, say, Fire or Affliction.


Unfortunately the original thread doesn't exist because the forums were purged, but here you go:

"We have found a bug with Bryntroll where it procs too often for Retribution paladins or Unholy DKs. For example both portions of Scourge Strike could cause a proc, which is unintended. Bryntroll seems to account for about ~3-4% of dps for a typical Icecrown Fury warrior. That's more of where it should be for other melee."

http://rawr.codeplex.com/discussions/80166

And I realize the irony of me linking something that happened in the previous expansion even after I said not to. However you wanted an explicit statement that precedence is being broken, here it is.
Edited by Sliphe on 1/2/2012 5:48 PM PST
100 Goblin Warlock
18060


Just showing the potential. Also typo'd the frost in there when I meant for a 1h with a proc being dw'd.


Well for fury its because off hand and white hits aren't getting you the procs. So you want it on your MH but not OH.

Also enhancement shammies can't use it like feral kitties. Rogues obviously don't matter.


It doesn't proc in OH for fury(wouldn't know as I play arms)? And rogues and enh shaman have weapons they can get from madness otherwise.
90 Human Paladin
10930


Well for fury its because off hand and white hits aren't getting you the procs. So you want it on your MH but not OH.

Also enhancement shammies can't use it like feral kitties. Rogues obviously don't matter.


It doesn't proc in OH for fury(wouldn't know as I play arms)? And rogues and enh shaman have weapons they can get from madness otherwise.


I'm pretty sure it does proc, just a reduced chance to.
I think gurthalak may have received a stealth nerf in a hotfix today. I ran several logs in LFR Dragon Soul and it's damage was far lower than previously.

http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/iswnw8u231bsk5ys/analyze/dd/source/?s=1562&e=1847

the damage the proc did on that kill is about what it has been doing all day for me.
Edited by Rabban on 1/2/2012 5:59 PM PST
100 Orc Warrior
12175
01/02/2012 05:09 PMPosted by Ciaro
This doesn't make sense. Is it also a bug that the damage is increased by unholy mastery? Or that fury has 2x the proc chance? Think before you post.


Except that's wrong. OH has always had a lesser chance to proc things like this and this fact hasn't changed. Hell, Gurth is only better in the OH if you happen to get luck with the procs. If it's not proccing very often than Ataraxis is the better OH weapon.
90 Human Paladin
10930
01/02/2012 05:53 PMPosted by Elidra
And I realize the irony of me linking something that happened in the previous expansion even after I said not to. However you wanted an explicit statement that precedence is being broken, here it is.

It was broken once, perhaps, but it clearly wasn't abolished, as we still have situations where items are significantly better for one spec than a comparable one.

Additionally, pretty sure the bug with Ret and Bryntroll was that Righteous Vengeance was proccing it, not that a Seal was. It was either that or Blood Corruption refreshes. In any case, it wasn't because of Seals, it was because some effect that legitimately wasn't an attack was proccing it.

I'm pretty sure it does proc, just a reduced chance to.

I was pretty sure it procs, and has the same chance, you just hit with the offhand less. Less procs per time, not per opportunity.


We'll always have items that are better for one spec than others of the same role. That's accepted. It's when it's far too good for that spec when the item is nerfed. Going back to Shard, it was always intended to be desirable for Arcane. It was nerfed because it was too good.

I honestly don't remember what it was that made Bryntroll so good for Ret, but looking at that quote, its interaction with magical portion Scourge Strike was similar to Gurth's interaction with Seals. I'm pretty sure the magical portion of SS was still considered a melee attack, just like Seal procs are, however it wasn't intended that it proc the drain.
100 Human Warrior
13625
DW: Chance to duplicate spell proc. Low proc, does maybe 20k on average burst. Takes over 3 months to get on 25 man, longer on 10. Legendary.

Gurth: Equal chance to proc to DW. Does ~9000 damage every tick on 4k resil. Ticks for 10 seconds. Epic. Can be got every week by supercasuals in pug LFRs.

Meleecylsm continues. Melee were top dps on most fights in FLs yet were somehow still whiny and were pandered to by blizzard.


It does 11k ticks on training dummy whit a 2% chance to proc. The tentacle has 15k hp, can be oneshoted.

How that can be better than an unavoidable double 40k mindblast/pyroblas/frostbolt/etc ?
85 Orc Warrior
4845


It is a bug because Ret has 2x the chance for it to proc off every attack unlike any other melee. No other melee has that interaction with Gurth.


This doesn't make sense. Is it also a bug that the damage is increased by unholy mastery? Or that fury has 2x the proc chance? Think before you post.


Fury doesn't have 2x the proc chance. Proc chance is reduced about 50% in the off-hand. Not to mention, off-hand Gurthalak may not even be BIS.
55 Troll Hunter
360


Not sure why you're using something from the previous expansion to justify something in this expansion. Try using a more relevant example. I still stand by that it's a bug.


And this is why I don't try to reason with trolls.


What is this? You're calling someone a troll while continually posting anti-melee rhetoric on your melee alt. Melee is just fine. Buff the weapon in fact. Hunters and Casters could use a little balancing. This is true and unbiased because I post on a Hunter alt.
83 Human Warrior
11250
01/02/2012 05:24 PMPosted by Sliphe

It's called precedent, and you'd do well to try understand it. Without an explicit statement that a precedent is being broken, it remains in effect.

But if you insist on needing a more recent example, I give you Shard of Woe and Arcane.

lol k


http://us.battle.net/wow/en/forum/topic/2089109057?page=1#1

"However, with the above change in mind we are also going to nerf the Shard of Woe trinket to halve the mana savings for Arcane spells only. It's still a fantastic trinket for Arcane mages even with the reduction."


Fantastic way to miss the context that quote is from.

Shard of Woe was released long before patch 4.0.3 rebalanced arcane, significantly slashing mana costs for AB. It necessated a rebalance of the trinket, it was hardly a bug that arcane interacted better with the trinket than Fire or Frost.



And this is why I don't try to reason with trolls.


What is this? You're calling someone a troll while continually posting anti-melee rhetoric on your melee alt. Melee is just fine. Buff the weapon in fact. Hunters and Casters could use a little balancing. This is true and unbiased because I post on a Hunter alt.


I get that you're raging out right now, Bloodletters, but posting on a hunter alt to make it seem like more people agree with you is silly.
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