Gurth: Far more broken in pvp/pve than DWTR

90 Night Elf Warrior
16175
01/04/2012 12:02 PMPosted by Elidra
Well, if it doesn't get two chances to proc on each attack for us, it'll be significantly worse than for anyone but Unholy since we do relatively few melee attacks.


Yea. I agree that it would swing the pendulum too far the other way. Its actually still good for unholy despite few melee attacks because their mastery does benefit it.

It should proc off spells but not benefit from unholy mastery, then it'd be pretty close for everyone.
90 Blood Elf Warrior
11045
Yeah, i had the same thing happen with my rogue partner for 2s. A Arms warrior with Gurth just trained me and had 2 tentacles out slowing me and hitting me for roughly 10k every 1 for 10s. I have 4.5k resillience, so its not because I'm undergeared. That sword is just retarded, and he only had the raidfinder version as well. So from what i gather from the Devs is that casuals can just walk into LFR get an easymode gurth, and then roffle ppl with it in PvP and you call that balance? No wonder cataclsym ended up this bad.


Biggest gripe with all melee AND Ret paladins is that it's difficult to close gaps and stay on your target without them HoF/Shapeshifting/HerpaDerping away. This sounds like rage from a healer that either doesn't want to step up their game or has a partner that doesn't peel. Gurth is fine, Working as intended.

Edited for more accuracy.
Edited by Vhelrillon on 1/4/2012 12:09 PM PST
90 Orc Death Knight
12350
A LFR weapon or certainly easily obtained by norm madness being more powerful than a legendary that took an entire guild months to put together isn't okay. That is a 100% separate issue from ranged vs melee balance.

Gurth clearly needs a nerf down to about 2% dmg done single target. Also probably needs a look as to whether or not the tentacles are a) impacted properly by resil and b) whether or not giving a 50% snare out on a easily obtained weapon is okay.

Class and spec imbalance is a totally separate issue.


Gimme a break. DTR is a tier old, and is obtainable by anyone with the dedication to farm obsolete content. That it is best-in-slot a tier later, and has boosted most specs using it to the top of the meters should silence any whining.

The game is all about moving forward and advancing gear. The end boss of the expansion dropping weapons that are better than old legendaries is perfectly fine.
90 Human Paladin
15265
Well, if it doesn't get two chances to proc on each attack for us, it'll be significantly worse than for anyone but Unholy since we do relatively few melee attacks.


Yea. I agree that it would swing the pendulum too far the other way. Its actually still good for unholy despite few melee attacks because their mastery does benefit it.

It should proc off spells but not benefit from unholy mastery, then it'd be pretty close for everyone.


Yea, though will have to see after this hotfix if its implimented already to see how it does.

01/04/2012 12:17 PMPosted by Lotek
The game is all about moving forward and advancing gear. The end boss of the expansion dropping weapons that are better than old legendaries is perfectly fine


Quoting this for emphasis.
Edited by Paladinchaz on 1/4/2012 12:43 PM PST
Community Manager
01/04/2012 11:14 AMPosted by Omegal
This is true, and has been fixed. Gurthalak should not proc off of Censure.


Does this also apply to Souldrinker's heal proc that was also showing an unusually higher proc rate for prot paladins then prot warriors, most likely do to Seal of Truth as well?


Yes. The bug was with Seal of Truth, so Souldrinker will proc less for paladins as well.





Censure was not proccing the weapon. Seal of truth was, and this caused ret to have double the chance to proc it on melee attacks. This is what they are fixing.

No amount of latching on to the accidental use of the word censure will change that. There is a reason it was worded as "double the proc chance," because melee attack + seal was the problem. Censure triggering the weapon wouldn't even add that many procs to be an issue.


The specific bug was that paladins running Seal of Truth had two chances with every swing to trigger the proc with Gurthalak or Souldrinker. They now have one chance.
85 Gnome Mage
7660
Why the tentacles do a slow during their mindflay? That's way unbalanced.
90 Blood Elf Warrior
11045
01/04/2012 01:36 PMPosted by Animage
Why the tentacles do a slow during their mindflay? That's way unbalanced.


Because it's how we deal with mages blinking and rooting every 15 seconds. Working as intended.
90 Human Paladin
15265
01/04/2012 01:31 PMPosted by Kaivax
The specific bug was that paladins running Seal of Truth had two chances with every swing to trigger the proc with Gurthalak or Souldrinker. They now have one chance.


Thanks for clarification
90 Blood Elf Paladin
20410
01/04/2012 01:31 PMPosted by Kaivax
The specific bug was that paladins running Seal of Truth had two chances with every swing to trigger the proc with Gurthalak or Souldrinker. They now have one chance.

Why is Rend able to proc Gurthalak when Censure is not?
Additionally, weren't Seal of Truth procs necessary to keep Ret's proc uptime up there with dual wielding Arms/Fury/Frost? Dual wielding Fury already swings twice as much as Ret, and dual wielding 1 handed Arms/Frost swing even faster than that.
90 Undead Priest
16610
All this talk about the sword and no one is speaking of how ridiculous the Vial of Shadows trinket is in a PvP situation. 40K+ procs on a low internal cooldown was a good idea, wasn't it.

These weapons and trinkets are just more reason to ban PvE items from Arena.
90 Orc Warrior
0
All this talk about the sword and no one is speaking of how ridiculous the Vial of Shadows trinket is in a PvP situation. 40K+ procs on a low internal cooldown was a good idea, wasn't it.

These weapons and trinkets are just more reason to ban PvE items from Arena.

I mean at least the tentacles can be killed in 1 to 2 shots by any dps even attempting to pay attention. Vials are just ridiculous, especially with rogues and find weakness.

And no, I'm not trying to defend the use of these weapons/trinkets in PvP. As far as I'm concerned any item not bought from one of the various PvP vendors needs to be kept out of competitive PvP (rbgs/arenas). I'm just taking advantage of broken items while it lasts.
Edited by Borck on 1/4/2012 1:48 PM PST
90 Blood Elf Paladin
13990
This was hotfixed already or is on the PTR patch?

I didn't notice a change yet, so that's why I'm asking of when this was happening.
85 Orc Warrior
4845
Kolzi, the whole "they have a legendary" didn't work during firelands when people kept posting melee were bad etc being only a couple thousand dps behind sometimes. The chest beaters still think that they should be able to beat a legendary. So I suggest once rogues shoot to the top with their legendaries we post a thread every day to get everyone who isn't a rogue buffed since legendaries don't belong being thousands of dps ahead much less you should be able to beat a legendary wielder in dps.

That is what it's become pretty much. Beat in dps by a legendary... goin to the forums and getting buffed next patch.


The legendaries from 4.2 are and will be far too common for them to just get an automatic trump card over every other DPS. That doesn't sound fair at all to give them that kind of advantage, especially when its from the previous tier.
90 Blood Elf Warrior
11045
And no, I'm not trying to defend the use of these weapons/trinkets in PvP. As far as I'm concerned any item not bought from one of the various PvP vendors needs to be kept out of competitive PvP (rbgs/arenas). I'm just taking advantage of broken items while it lasts.


Why? Are you saying that some gear is for PvP and other gear isn't? What kind of dummy would take a weapon with lower damage if they're already at the resilience 'cap' and had the means to do it? It's tying your ankles together in a marathon. No one else is going to do it, and giving yourself the handicap isn't going to make a victory anymore impressive.

This just seems like another case of someone crying 'you're not playing the game you pay for right and you shouldn't feel good about your personal victories!'

We get it, you hate people that do things other than PvP. Grow up and face it that varying interests are always going to exist. The gap is closing and the cataclysmic tier 1 weapon isn't as impressive as the raider's weapon. Big deal.
Edited by Vhelrillon on 1/4/2012 2:04 PM PST
85 Blood Elf Rogue
12925
Seal of Truth was one source, but what about Seals of Command with Retribution Paladins? I've seen that talent trigger plenty of stuff (such as Zanzil's Frostburn Cauldron). That might have been another source of proc chance.
Edited by Koakuma on 1/4/2012 2:00 PM PST
90 Human Paladin
10930
01/04/2012 02:00 PMPosted by Koakuma
Seal of Truth was one source, but what about Seals of Command with Retribution Paladins? I've seen that talent trigger plenty of stuff (such as Zanzil's Frostburn Cauldron). That might have been another source of proc chance.


It is possible. SoC does count as a melee attack because it can be dodged or parried.
85 Orc Warrior
4845
01/04/2012 01:42 PMPosted by Haul
The specific bug was that paladins running Seal of Truth had two chances with every swing to trigger the proc with Gurthalak or Souldrinker. They now have one chance.

Why is Rend able to proc Gurthalak when Censure is not?
Additionally, weren't Seal of Truth procs necessary to keep Ret's proc uptime up there with dual wielding Arms/Fury/Frost? Dual wielding Fury already swings twice as much as Ret, and dual wielding 1 handed Arms/Frost swing even faster than that.


I'm not so sure that Rend does proc Gurthalak. I've never heard that it does anyway. Arms cannot dual wield and Fury doesn't want to dual wield Gurthalak. The mace off of Blackhorn is BIS off-hand for Fury. Also, how is Arms dual wielding one handed swords (which doesn't work) relevant to this discussion about a two handed sword?
90 Orc Warrior
11685


Why is Rend able to proc Gurthalak when Censure is not?
Additionally, weren't Seal of Truth procs necessary to keep Ret's proc uptime up there with dual wielding Arms/Fury/Frost? Dual wielding Fury already swings twice as much as Ret, and dual wielding 1 handed Arms/Frost swing even faster than that.


I'm not so sure that Rend does proc Gurthalak. I've never heard that it does anyway. Arms cannot dual wield and Fury doesn't want to dual wield Gurthalak. The mace off of Blackhorn is BIS off-hand for Fury. Also, how is Arms dual wielding one handed swords (which doesn't work) relevant to this discussion about a two handed sword?


So much this. I really wish people would learn how Fury works before making baseless assumptions. And there's no way that Rend is proccing anything since its a bleed, not a melee attack.

Edit: Contrition seems to have been adopted. My bad.
Edited by Nodokk on 1/4/2012 2:24 PM PST
90 Human Rogue
10935
All this talk about the sword and no one is speaking of how ridiculous the Vial of Shadows trinket is in a PvP situation. 40K+ procs on a low internal cooldown was a good idea, wasn't it.

These weapons and trinkets are just more reason to ban PvE items from Arena.

I mean at least the tentacles can be killed in 1 to 2 shots by any dps even attempting to pay attention. Vials are just ridiculous, especially with rogues and find weakness.

And no, I'm not trying to defend the use of these weapons/trinkets in PvP. As far as I'm concerned any item not bought from one of the various PvP vendors needs to be kept out of competitive PvP (rbgs/arenas). I'm just taking advantage of broken items while it lasts.

so you should only be able to wear pvp gear in pvp but you have to pvp to get pvp gear, smart.
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