Cut down on the spoonfed storytelling in MoP.

90 Night Elf Death Knight
0
All in all, Cataclysm's biggest problem is that, in a lot of these things, our characters are just there to watch. This is worse for Alliance-side characters, who aren't even interested in watching Thrall do all the heroics, because he's not 'our' hero.

The Elemental Bonds questline was the worst offender because it forgot its own plot-hook. We were invited to watch the restoration of the World Tree. That was the reason why the Alliance was present. Even if we disliked him, we had to swallow our pride and help him for the sake of the Tree. But the questline forgot all that by the end, as if it expected its audience to be reeled into the pathos surrounding Thrall, his dreams, his various whining, and his wuv for Aggra (a flat, one dimensional character who exists only to be his love interest).

It ended with us standing to the side, watching the wedding of a guy who, in his heart of hearts, wishes to wipe out Stormwind. The World Tree, our reason for coming, was completely forgotten.

In WOTLK, we were a key part of the plot. Arthas based his grand strategy completely around us. He was going to kill us, reanimate us, use us to kill Tirion, and then set us up to replace all of the various champions we killed to get to him.

In Cataclysm, we're usually just there because 'the heroes' need an audience. Deathwing doesn't even seem to notice that we exist.

The problem with Deathwing as a villain in general probably won't be repeated, though. Cataclysm tried to prop DEATHWING, himself, in person, as the real threat - but the gameplay didn't support that at all. We still worked our way through his various minions, even though he was a threat that didn't actually need minions. Ultraxion is where the sheer ridiculousness of this comes to a head, and makes Deathwing seem completely toothless and clueless.
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90 Human Paladin
9475
Massively multiplayer online ROLE-PLAYING game.

Without story, you have no game.


Roleplaying is about making your own story against a background plot. Not about being fed a story. That's what differentiates a RPG from a graphical adventure.


RPG takes a somewhat different meaning in CRPG's. There's no dungeon-master in games like this, so obviously WoW or any other CRPG isn't going to match up to a game of Pathfinder or D&D.

Still, many people can and do appreciate a good narrative in their games, and some of my favorite video games have relied upon spoon-feeding people narrative as you'd call it. May not be for you, but fun for me and others.
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13 Human Rogue
40
Honestly, I think cutscenes/RP scenes are better put to use in quests and kept out of raids for the most part. I say this because in raids people are likely going to have to do them over, and over, and over etc. for a very long time and having to watch an RP scene play out that many times is very irksome.

Aside from that I kind've wish there were less comic relief moments and more srs moments, as the latter seem to have become more rare.
Edited by Elmagden on 1/4/2012 2:58 PM PST
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90 Troll Rogue
16285
speaking of story telling, no linear quest.. i hate getting lost ... and i have no clue where i am in deepholm anymore.
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90 Blood Elf Hunter
5380
All in all, Cataclysm's biggest problem is that, in a lot of these things, our characters are just there to watch. This is worse for Alliance-side characters, who aren't even interested in watching Thrall do all the heroics, because he's not 'our' hero.

The Elemental Bonds questline was the worst offender because it forgot its own plot-hook. We were invited to watch the restoration of the World Tree. That was the reason why the Alliance was present. Even if we disliked him, we had to swallow our pride and help him for the sake of the Tree. But the questline forgot all that by the end, as if it expected its audience to be reeled into the pathos surrounding Thrall, his dreams, his various whining, and his wuv for Aggra (a flat, one dimensional character who exists only to be his love interest).

It ended with us standing to the side, watching the wedding of a guy who, in his heart of hearts, wishes to wipe out Stormwind. The World Tree, our reason for coming, was completely forgotten.


I'm horde and i felt exactly the same way about the entire quest, and especially about how it ended.

Thrall making a vow to Aggra...ok fine....but I came to see the tree be restored, couldn't they add that in the ending as well? So my poor character doesn't feel like a complete third wheel here?

Not to mention that the aspects and every other NPC seemed to be just on the sidelines in the end...even the freaking aspects! They are kinda important here. /facepalm

It had such a good beginning, but in the end it was just to sappy and fell apart completely.

Edited by Therovan on 1/4/2012 2:37 PM PST
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90 Human Priest
10995
Yeah the RP moments get to me at times. After killing the new 5 man bosses about 30 times each, I sometimes wish there was a "skip" button, but now I turn off my WoW sound and have music in the background playing. So all Blizz's effort and money in (IMO gradeschool) writing, music scores, and (comical B rated) voice acting goes out the window.

I am so glad D3 is coming out.
Edited by Thoridin on 1/4/2012 3:06 PM PST
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85 Night Elf Death Knight
1935
01/04/2012 01:49 PMPosted by Patiareh
There is a story here? Oh, guess I need to level a horde alt to see it. Constructive criticism: Alliance get nothing out of their questing other than "we should be ashamed about who we are" and "do nothing, wait for the horde to strike first."


I just think the two questing experiences are different. Alliance can't see the forest for the trees, and Horde can't see the trees for the forest. For the most part, this is how I feel when playing as the different faction, but that's my opinion.
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85 Blood Elf Paladin
8550
I've yet to see the well of eternity movie, as I don't want to hold up the rest of the group..
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90 Gnome Warrior
10755
01/04/2012 10:42 AMPosted by Vilkas
POWA!


I signed it just to tell you that the companions rock :D
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87 Night Elf Druid
8005
Needs less cheesy comic inspired lines and more, actual intriguing and well thought out lines.

We don't need "You haven't heard the last of me!" "I'll stop you, fool!". We need some actual competitive writing.


It could be worse. They could hire George Lucas to do their writing.


True... it'd be long winded, annoying, slightly over dramatic, and Brann would be replaced with Harrison Jones.

And Deathwing would have a soppy romantic reason for becoming mad. Like, being in love with Alexstraza, and not being able to be with her, or some crap.
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5 Tauren Shaman
0
I have to agree with the OP on this one. The heavy-handed storytelling in Cata really crushed my spirt, for several reasons:

1) It kills replayability. Yes, a story you can skip over can easily be skipped by accident, and that is unfortunate. But a story you can't skip over makes playing alts or even re-running a dungeon incredibly painful. In an ongoing, no-real-end style game like WoW, replayability is vital. Anything that makes people less likely to replay content would be something to avoid at all cost, I would think.

2) It makes me feel even more insignificant. Look, I know I'm not The Hero of Azeroth. That's fine. But every now and then, I can sort of pretend I am. Just yesterday, I completed the "Thrall comes to Nagrand" questline on my tauren pally. Yeah, I'd done it before, but in the context of the moment, I felt pretty dang heroic. Compare that to any cutscene in Cata, or the not-really-quests where all you really do is follow NPCs (such as the end of Vash'jir). Your class doesn't matter. Your gear doesn't matter. Nothing you can possibly do matters. YOU do not matter, because if you did, you might screw up the story. How is this "role playing"?

3) Challenge goes down the drain. This is more of a leveling gripe than anything, but I miss orange and red quests. It's so extremely rare to find a quest that genuinely challenges your ability as a player, as opposed to just timing things right in a vehicle or something. Nearly every quest is yellow, because nearly every quest ties into the story, and the story MUST be told in the right order. That means a puny handful of quests (we can hold TWENTY-FIVE, you know) which are nearly impossible to fail. ..... Fun?


That right there.

The linear quests and the basically linear story that you cant miss regardless of what you're
doing or how good you are has got to go.

That was a huge mistake and needs changed back. It was perfect in Vanilla and BC, why
they would break something that wasnt broken i will never understand.
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5 Tauren Shaman
0
Questing is railroaded now.

You cant choose which quests to do, because you have to do others before they show up.

Say you're in a zone thats lvl 20-25 and you're lvl 24. You cant go to the lvl 24-25 ones, you
HAVE to do the 20-23 ones first. And thats not immersive, all i do is skip the entire zone and
queue a random instead, because its a waste of time and prevents me from doing what I
want.

Back in Vanilla i would go around and gather 25 quests in a zone first, then do all of them
at once. Questing is so bad now, i refuse to even leave a city anymore, which im sure most
people feel which is why every zone is completely empty besides Stormwind and Orgrimmar.
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90 Tauren Druid
3310

How about figuring out a way to only let groups skip events if all party members have seen the event?

Or, perhaps, if all party members choose to skip it?


A combination of both might be best. It could be implemented pretty easily I think with an Achievement check. If the Achievements indicate all players have been through the content already, then the option to skip will automatically pop up for each member of the group. Only if all players vote to skip, will it then be skipped.

I say this for two reasons.

1) I'm prone to twitch and hit buttons before reading things. If a pop up came to skip the content the first time I'd been through it, I would probably choose to skip it anyway. I don't think I'm alone here either.

2) I wouldn't want it to skip automatically just because I've seen it before. There may be a time when I want to share some portion of the story with a friend for recruitment purposes, with them either sitting in the pilot's chair, or watching over my shoulder. While YouTube is always an option, it doesn't compare to being there, in-game. An automatic skip is undesirable.

Ultimately, I don't feel like any of the storytelling is spoonfed necessarily. I feel like some of the content is being spoonfed though, by which I mean engagements have just been made easy to the point of being trivialized. I can probably run 90% of current level *group* content for my character *two man* with a friend. Some of this stuff I really feel should've been intended for 5 people, but 5 people is just overkill in every instance I've seen since returning to WoW about a month ago. This goes for everything from Ragefire Chasm to Auchindoun.

Questing is so bad now, i refuse to even leave a city anymore, which im sure most
people feel which is why every zone is completely empty besides Stormwind and Orgrimmar.


I've noticed this too, to some extent. I don't think it's quite as bad as what you're describing though. Usually what I do is skip all the quests which don't have gear upgrade rewards, because ultimately all the quests reward me with the same amount of experience and money(if I vendor the non-upgrade gear rewards). Then finally before I leave a zone, I make sure to abandon all the green quests for that zone which are left over. I don't feel like this should be happening. It certainly didn't before all these expansions came out. I actually had time to finish all the quests then. Of course, I didn't have a guild experience bonus then either. I'm not sure I really like the guild experience bonus though.
Edited by Odietamo on 1/4/2012 4:32 PM PST
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87 Night Elf Druid
8275
We need the story in the game, and to put it all at the end would make it confusing to say the least. There are places you can skip the story and places you cannot. In Well of Eternity you can, anywhere there is a video sequence you can cancel it.

In a few places they will not allow you to skip it. The Thrall part is literally an escorting quest without the threat in most places of losing Thrall till you are dead. Most people choose to run ahead of him getting to the second sequence faster. The thrall part makes it a bit better, once you start the first and second and third part you are locked in.

In most roleplaying games on console they sometimes make you see a part of the story, to read a bit of the story, if you do not you pretty much can shoot yourself in the foot.

i sometimes wonder why people play rpg like this one if they cannot stand the story. Surely there are just pure fighting games out there/
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90 Gnome Warrior
8535
Some random big !@# dragon

Don't !@#$% about lore if you don't know lore.
Deathwing is a major lore character in Day of the Dragon, the War of the Ancient trilogy, and Beyond the Dark Portal.
And a bunch of other stuff that I can't really remember.
Correction, Deathwing was a dragon that looked badass because of his metal plating in Warcraft II, who was then over-inflated to importance somewhere down the line after the dragons were split into flights, after Kurdran and Sky'ree slayed him in the Alliance campaign in BtDP (wow, a loreLOL that predated the Blood Elves and the Draenei!). Big difference.
01/04/2012 02:27 PMPosted by Sylassanna
It ended with us standing to the side, watching the wedding of a guy who, in his heart of hearts, wishes to wipe out Stormwind. The World Tree, our reason for coming, was completely forgotten.
Oh, so I wasn't the only one who noticed it.
Edited by Agrina on 1/4/2012 3:40 PM PST
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90 Tauren Druid
10160
01/04/2012 10:37 AMPosted by Nethaera
As for Mists of Pandaria and the storyline there, we definitely want to continue down the path of offering up story where we can. We feel that this can only enhance the experience of the game. We're not unaware though of the concerns on both sides of the fence.


Im all for story, but not the way it was told in Cataclysm quests. We are forced down a linear path in every zone, and not given any wiggle room. I would like to see an excess of quests in MoP so that we have more selection. Add in bigger hubs, and non-mandatory side quest lines. I want to try to make it a new experience for each character i level up, not experience the same straight line of quests for everytime i do it. Linear questing loses that sense of an open world - an MMO - which is not a good thing to lose for WoW.
Edited by Korlek on 1/4/2012 3:49 PM PST
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90 Human Priest
10995
World Tree what?

...
...
...


Ah..... n/m this game IS about Thrall, silly me.
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90 Draenei Priest
6785
If we must endure the story lines then please add a counter or something after we have listened to the thing 5 times give us the option to skip. Personally I could care less about any of the story line. I just enjoy the encounter and normally go out of my way to AVOID the plot.
Edited by Aimix on 1/4/2012 4:07 PM PST
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