Cut down on the spoonfed storytelling in MoP.

90 Tauren Druid
11205
01/04/2012 03:49 PMPosted by Korlek
As for Mists of Pandaria and the storyline there, we definitely want to continue down the path of offering up story where we can. We feel that this can only enhance the experience of the game. We're not unaware though of the concerns on both sides of the fence.


Im all for story, but not the way it was told in Cataclysm quests. We are forced down a linear path in every zone, and not given any wiggle room. I would like to see an excess of quests in MoP so that we have more selection. Add in bigger hubs, and non-mandatory side quest lines. I want to try to make it a new experience for each character i level up, not experience the same straight line of quests for everytime i do it. Linear questing loses that sense of an open world - an MMO - which is not a good thing to lose for WoW.


I wish more people had said this before they did the revamp and removed the very things you want back...
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85 Gnome Priest
2175
Blizzard, please do not change a thing!! I think the story line is awesome, and it really does not add that much time to the overall instance. 20 min to do an instance from beginning to end is the perfect amt of time.......
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85 Gnome Priest
2175
I would like to believe that Thrall has evolved beyond Horde and Alliance. Thrall saved the freaking world!!! When you look at the big picture of what he did... The Horde and Alliance fighting over remnants of Ashenvale is pretty petty.

[quote="38661992565"]All in all, Cataclysm's biggest problem is that, in a lot of these things, our characters are just there to watch. This is worse for Alliance-side characters, who aren't even interested in watching Thrall do all the heroics, because he's not 'our' hero.

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85 Undead Warrior
10795
01/04/2012 10:44 AMPosted by Jhanz
Needs less cheesy comic inspired lines and more, actual intriguing and well thought out lines.

And I know Blizz can do this, because the writing and voice acting quality in D3 is seriously top-notch.

Every time I load up the beta, it makes me giddy. :3 C'mon, Blizz, give WoW some similar treatment!
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85 Tauren Priest
5770
Questing is railroaded now.

You cant choose which quests to do, because you have to do others before they show up.

Say you're in a zone thats lvl 20-25 and you're lvl 24. You cant go to the lvl 24-25 ones, you
HAVE to do the 20-23 ones first. And thats not immersive, all i do is skip the entire zone and
queue a random instead, because its a waste of time and prevents me from doing what I
want.

Back in Vanilla i would go around and gather 25 quests in a zone first, then do all of them
at once. Questing is so bad now, i refuse to even leave a city anymore, which im sure most
people feel which is why every zone is completely empty besides Stormwind and Orgrimmar.


This is the main point I have with Cata. Everything is railroaded. How many times have you done quests in Deepholm (or some other zone) and you can't figure out where the next part starts? You have to walk the line that Blizzard tells you via story to get the next quest, and the next.

One of my accounts is cancelled. The reason? I want a world. A world that I could get lost in. I want breadcrumbs, not a paved highway.
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85 Human Paladin
7590
01/04/2012 10:37 AMPosted by Nethaera
Second, we've heard (as you've stated) that once through, it's not as fun the second time. We've obviously experienced this as well in the past via Culling of Stratholme. As you saw there, we did eventually make it possible to skip this portion of the event, but there are risks involved with that too. For newer players or those that aren't on the front edge of progression, this can cause them to miss out on being able to see this story unless they're with people who are willing to let it play out so they can experience it.


Isn't the solution to this simply to have them as cinematics that players can elect to skip? That way the story is always available for those that want it, but doesn't hold up the entire group (unless it's the tank watching the cinematic).

Problem fixed?
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90 Tauren Druid
3310

One of my accounts is cancelled. The reason? I want a world. A world that I could get lost in. I want breadcrumbs, not a paved highway.


This brings up something I've thought about before, but really kind of wondered about. I noticed one of the quests from Original was changed quite a bit, and the quest area had been relocated. The quest text indicated it was in the same place it had always been, but the quest tracker indicated a new area for it. What I'm getting at is removing the quest target beacons. It really gets in the way of getting lost, and that escape to total immersion gets destroyed in the process.

Maybe set the quest tracker beacons turned off by default, and make it so the user has to push a button to turn on the beacon, per quest.

I like the tracker, I don't like the giveaway on quest target location, marked on my map by default every time. It really just encourages me to ignore the flavor of the story, rather than being forced to read and understand what I'm doing in order to locate my target.

Maybe there's already a way to turn this off though. I'll go look. :)
Edited by Odietamo on 1/4/2012 4:43 PM PST
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85 Draenei Shaman
ilu
910
We're always open to constructive feedback as long as it stays constructive. There are a few different types of thoughts from the community on these things that I've heard via podcasts or read on fansites and the forums here.

First, we've gotten lots of feedback through the years that it's difficult to learn the story of World of Warcraft. Many players have expressed that they have concerns over too much story having to be found outside the game and not enough in the game, or even not being led to the story in the game and thus missing it. Obviously, this is something we've been trying to correct where we can and trying to find a balance between the two. We're aware that Azeroth's history and story is pretty vast and with each new expansion, we're given the opportunity to expand on it even more.

Second, we've heard (as you've stated) that once through, it's not as fun the second time. We've obviously experienced this as well in the past via Culling of Stratholme. As you saw there, we did eventually make it possible to skip this portion of the event, but there are risks involved with that too. For newer players or those that aren't on the front edge of progression, this can cause them to miss out on being able to see this story unless they're with people who are willing to let it play out so they can experience it.

That said, I can't say that we'll do the same for the current dungeons (allowing the "skip"), but I can say that we'll continue to take constructive feedback on these aspects of the game as often as we can. We want to make sure we're giving the story that people want, while still making sure it's as fun as possible to be a part of it.

As for Mists of Pandaria and the storyline there, we definitely want to continue down the path of offering up story where we can. We feel that this can only enhance the experience of the game. We're not unaware though of the concerns on both sides of the fence.


Frankly, the biggest offender I can think of with the new story stuff in dungeons (well... other than the fact that Thrall needs a mount) as far as "stuff needs to be skipped" goes is the Archbishop Benedictus fight. While I have no issues with these things, I am always extremely conscious of how impatient the some of the playerbase can be and I feel like the dialogue on this fight takes quite some time before the pull initiates.

Everywhere else is pretty meh. I've had no qualms with it--though Well of Eternity gets very boring with only one real boss encounter. It's a cool dungeon, but like others have said, after the first time it loses it's glory. It's still probably one of my favorites this expansion, though.

To be quite frank, while some people would like more of the story be available in-game, I reaally just love playing the wiki game on wowpedia sometimes. Though I realize that wanting the game to tell its own story instead of a wikipedia is important, "the wiki game" can be very entertaining.

I personally didn't feel like this expansion was erring as much as others seem to think.
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85 Draenei Shaman
8705
01/04/2012 04:40 PMPosted by Ihealforall
I'm still disappointed that Blizz removed the Battle of UC from the game, why they did it I shall not know. Battle of UC was pretty important, but Blizz decided to trash it. I hate it when games are rushed out, it annoys me.


A LOT of people I know complain about it still. Was definitely the one remaining highlight of leveling in WotLK. However, a Blizzard rep will have to comment, but I remember someone saying because of the heavy phasing, it was conflicting with the new phasing stuff in Undercity and so forth.
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85 Tauren Death Knight
0
Hello, i think that paying 50$ for changing your realm and race is really stupid! I bet you all didnt know that there 10 millon people put all together pays them 150,000,000 milloin dollars a MONTH! Yes, do the math. And another 50$ for something that i really want! and have already payed WELL over 300$ to keep my player playing this game!
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I love the new instances and the amount of story that's packed into them. A lot of the content is skippable, and it set a great tone for the Dragon Soul Raid.

I guess one potential solution for those others who tire of the extended in dungeon sequences would be to frame more of the instance story back out in the zones with breadcrumb/minor attunement quests.

The dragon boss in Nexus for example, who was your guide and friend for an entire questline in Dragonblight was a fantastic way to set up an emotional pay off in the instance, without resorting to a cut scene. I was so sad when I had to kill her!

Overall though, I love the hour of twilight instances, and if the MoP dungeons are anything like them, I'm going to have a very good time.
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85 Troll Druid
5990
I like the new dungeons. And I liked CoS. It's nice to have dungeons with freakin lore and story in an MMORPG. Blizz needs to focus MORE on story, not less.
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10 Troll Warlock
0
I'm tired of feeling like it's more exciting to level alts through gathering because every time I do a zone its progression is fixed in stone and some (deepholm) require you to complete the same zone in the same manner time after time after time to access shoulder enchants. While gathering I might encounter a bot, and then I get to follow him around to tell if I can find any sort of tell tale actions and shoot off a ticket. The third time around with Deepholm pales in comparison with the sheer excitement of following a bot around Uldum. I'm not kidding and that makes me sad.
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85 Undead Rogue
6615
TBH I always wanted more story. Like Final Fantasy or something. I always thought wow lacked a bit there. Moving from zone to zone would be awesome if u were following a brilliant storyline that would get more in depth as u progressed and, would get me a lot more eager to pve. I love RPG's purely for the fact of awesome storyline.

Sometimes it can be confusing when getting a dungeon for the first time and an NPC is like 'we need to kill such and such' but, u on the other hand r like 'Well who are they, what have they done and where do they fit in to the storyline?'

I know there is a bit of storyline but it is mainly focused around raids, fair enough but for the non-raider maybe we could see a bit more while questing.

EDIT: As I said about questing yes, there is storyline there, I would like it to be focused more on the main storyline rather than just the quest hub storyline.
Edited by Jalani on 1/4/2012 5:15 PM PST
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90 Blood Elf Priest
9955
01/04/2012 10:37 AMPosted by Nethaera
We're not unaware though of the concerns on both sides of the fence.


So you're aware... or are you ALMOST aware? I really dislike these double negatives...

But, as far as what this blue said... I really wish I knew what happened between WoTLK and Cataclysm taht made Garrosh leader.

I bought expansion and BOOM he was leader. I wasn't told at all what happened... Why isn't there an actual story we can see where Thrall gives his .... uh... mantle of warchief to Garrosh?

I feel it's lame that we can't see this happen.
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87 Night Elf Druid
8275
01/04/2012 04:45 PMPosted by Maridia
I personally didn't feel like this expansion was erring as much as others seem to think.


it is not, the problem is the go go go attitude. if you have a tank with that attitude you cannot even stop to loot without him jumping into the next battle. In Lost City of the Tol'vir i stopped to loot where it indicated it indicated it was mine. The tank is already fighting a little ways away and gets down to half before i get there to heal them.

You cannot even stop to get mana breaks. When it was 1 or 2 melee besides the tank i had to go all out to heal on some fights. Sometimes even ranged stand too close and get blasted as much as the others when they do not have to. This puts a strain on the Healer's mana supply. So what do i do, i speak up for a mana break or i get ahead of the people like when Illidan seperates from you and sit down to drink.

Tank rushes right past and starts the fight. i have on more than one occasion not healed the tank up, leaving him about half way for life when the fight ends and then took my break. you would think that would do it right? wrong, the tank launches straight into a fight and comes within an inch of death and i have to end the mana break or get killed myself.

Now you could conceivably make that story part optional in some dungeons but not Hour of Twilight. You would basically be removing the dungeon from the game.

But let's say for the sake of argument that there is a way to gut every story and at a choice is given to you at the beginning of a dungeon to skip over all the story content, basically gutting the dungeon and raid. Cinematics, every story scene cut out.

Now these people who like the story would be ganged up upon. You choose to have the content intact, shown, you like it. Every player would grumble at you, you would be kicked from the group and anothe would replace you and the vote would go again. It would have to because it would be unfair if the new person did not get to choose. A whole new wave of kick abuse. Because that 1 or 2 people are time wasters.

If the tank did not want to see it, noobs, i am out of here as soon as we do the first fight. Have fun waiting for another tank.

Honestly you cannot tell me the majority of the people would not do that. Look how hard it is to get people to do an optional boss now.

People grumble when you ask them to do the quests in Zul'Gurub. A quest objective take like 3 minutes tops to complete. Most of them are done in a minute and a half. i have been there.

i saw a damage dealer ask us if we would do the quest objectives before 4.3 came. i said yes. the others did not voice any objections. We got a thankyou and we were off. After we came down the rolling rock hill i stopped and said that they had to come back and do it. they ignored me. it continued like this until Zanzil. After we finished i said we had someone to do the quests for. they told me "we do not know where they are" i told them i said to stop and come back and do it. i said that we should do the chef, Gub, and the offspring as they were close, another thankyou, and i proceeded to lead them to the chef, only that damage dealer came.

After a while i said that we could wait for them all day and he got kicked. The reason in the window was time waster. i asked if they cared about anyone but themselves. they said yes but that that was what guilds were for and friends and that they would not go out of their way to help someone. they would only do their jobs in a dungeon nothing more. i told them they may one day want a groups help like doing an extra boss in Halls of Origination and they said no one does that anymore so there is not a problem

i rejoined them, they got another damage dealer. and we did the rest, i kept the team up but just up. when we got to Jin'do the tank was down to about half and one of the damage dealers was about 75 percent, after a minute the tank demanded i heal them. After all their bs about only doing their jobs and no more and not helping anyone they wanted me to waste time and mana healing them. i told them it was not my job to heal them between battles. now the tank was a druid so he could have healed both of them in 15 - 20 seconds. they could have eaten food and drank. Instead they waited till time healed them and then the tank left. The damage dealer said so now we got a whiny healer. i told them i was showing them their attitude. that next time they should remember this and how it feels.

We had to wait 8 minutes for another tank and then we finished it.

Another time after 4.3 came i go into Zul'Gurub and i say that i want to do the Temple of Bethekk. telling them why i came. They do not say anything against it and we are off. We do the first two bosses. They go to the bridge. They even down Gub. So i go across the next bridge to the snakes and only one Damage Dealer comes with me.

The tank says we do not need to do that. i said i wanted to, that i told them at the beginning that i wanted to do it. he keeps saying that we do not have to, we can skip them now. the damage dealer kept crossing the bridge every time one of us spoke. i finally said i know we can skip them, i want to do it.

It was like pulling teeth to get the other three to do it but finally they came. If it had been one of the Damage Dealers they would have kicked.

If it is not someone who is important or who has the majority behind them the group will often kick to get rid of them. You cannot make any content optional for this reason, if you do you screw the rest because the group will kick you if they think they can replace you quickly or will try to out wait you.

One time in the Deadmines i remember a Mage saying she needed a mana break. the tank would not give it to her. he said that a dps was not important so she did not get one. they would move on without her and if she stopped and they wiped that was her fault. so i as the Healer stopped and i took a mana break, i was not at the point where i absolutely needed one but i replenished my suppy and waited for her to get hers.

Why play this game at all? Why not ask Blizzard to make one dungeon where it is nonstop bosses and mob fights? Where you do not have anything at all between them, a never ending battle, they just keep coming. That way you do not ever have to see a shred of the story line. Maybe different loot as you go down different paths but you do not have to actually choose anything else because everything is the same.

That would not be fun would it, maybe for the first 15 - 30 minutes or so but you would get bored and would curse that dungeon. But that is exactly what you seem to want.
Edited by Floralae on 1/4/2012 6:14 PM PST
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