4.3.2 PTR and New File Optimization Tech

85 Human Death Knight
13240
01/05/2012 11:24 AMPosted by Omegal
you need to reprint your system requirements on the box of world of warcraft to say requirements for 10 man raids and requirements for 25 man raids, because these are clearly different.


25 raids are particularlly brutal on fps, as wow gets bogged down real fast in large crowds of players with a lot of player events firing similtaniously. Zon'ozz and ultraxion particularly are mad killers of performance. Especially 5-6min mark ultraxion on 25 man, even high end desktop computers as much as only 1-2 years old can be brought to a crawl.

But as ressy said, these changes should have no affect on how gameplay runs for assets that are already loaded. It'll just reduce load times for loading assets for the first time, and space requirements.
before the combat log update, it didn't hurt computers that much.
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85 Blood Elf Priest
1515
Great, to bad I bought a 4 gig computer. =/
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85 Human Mage
6450
01/05/2012 09:56 AMPosted by Scruffs
Since people are on SSDs with Wow, is this process that the launcher will do a defrag-like thing? SSDs don't like defrags and I'd rather not let it occur if there's a chance it screws with the SSD in any way.


Sounds like it should be less of a problem than the old method, as the old method needed a bunch of free space. In an SSD, once you write to all the free space on the drive, the drive slows down. Less space needed for the update process means less writing hopefully. If it has the same number of writes though, the process will have the same effect, even if it deletes as it goes.

If your SSD slows, the best thing to do is move all data to another drive and reformat it in Win 7. This version of Windows knows it is SSD and will clear all cells back to near the original state of the drive, then copy all data back. One good reason only the operating system should be on C:, and all game data on a separate SSD.
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85 Human Mage
6450
01/05/2012 11:05 AMPosted by Sorchia
my only hope is this will help some of us who have computers that USED to run world of warcraft great and now suddenly do not. otherwise i stick with my original thesis, you need to reprint your system requirements on the box of world of warcraft to say requirements for 10 man raids and requirements for 25 man raids, because these are clearly different.


File system optimizations would only very slightly affect performance if hard drive access is the bottleneck. In a raid, this happens when your machine does not have enough video and system memory to cache everything that is needed to display the scene. This will make the system swap data in and out of memory from the disk, leading to very low frame rates. You will see the HD light on throughout the raid if that is the case.

Disk access is many magnitudes slower than memory access, so no amount of optimization will help in that case. Better file optimization will only be noticeable in loading screen time, or slightly quicker avatar loads when zoning into SW for instance.
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100 Human Warrior
20830
01/05/2012 11:56 AMPosted by Blodøks
before the combat log update, it didn't hurt computers that much.

I don't think the combat log has much to do with it at all compared to amount of information in it.
That same updated combat log if you log a fight in say BT or another older raid, just has FAR FAR less data then something like ultraxion, which literally has an aoe ability that's hitting entire raid every 1 second, splitting damage between them, all while healers are doing ridiculous heal spam using buffs that increase their haste, double their heals with secondary heal procs etc. Drop a spirit link totem on top of it and oh man. The combat log data amount is astronomical, that is the real factor, not adding a few extra args to combat log which count for very little. The fights just have that much more going on.
Edited by Omegal on 1/5/2012 12:53 PM PST
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100 Night Elf Warrior
18685
It has nothing to do with load times (although they will be slightly improved).

The only thing it really has to do is with a 32 GB wow folder. That's all. For me it makes little difference other than my CDO (thats OCD in alphabetical order as it should be)...but most people don't have several terabytes free storage.

Most of the technical complaints on here come from people that have no idea how systems work. This addresses nothing more than physical storage.


On a side note, i think there should be an option to "Enable enhanced combat log" with teh alternative (and default selected option) being the original.
Edited by Yamoto on 1/5/2012 12:57 PM PST
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90 Tauren Druid
12100
My own comparisons can be seen here
http://us.battle.net/wow/en/forum/topic/3863056739#2
Based on what i found in mac client, i gained about 4.2 gigs.

Part of this optimisation process did involve redownloading 3.7gigs of data though as the optimisation process had to delete obsolete data and download newer versions of it in 4.3.2, so it by no means is going to be a light patching process for slower internet connections.


GET BACK TO WORK ON MAKING DBM SKINNABLE!! *shakesfist*

Thanks for the link. BRB reading. :)
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100 Human Warrior
20830
Most of the technical complaints on here come from people that have no idea how systems work. This addresses nothing more than physical storage.

I don't know what makes you think that. I've actually done physical tests on the PTR, using a SSD drive even, and noted lower load times entering game world using same exact config as live, even same addons (literally a clone of addons and wtf folder with exactly same char, unpopulated location, and UI). If a SSD can even notice improvement, i'm sure a plated disk will notice some.


01/05/2012 12:55 PMPosted by Yamoto
On a side note, i think there should be an option to "Enable enhanced combat log" with teh alternative (and default selected option) being the original.

I still don't get where people think the combat log itself is the source of the lower fps. Vs the amount of information being thrown around being several dozen time greater. You know how big say a 5 min malygos fight log was compared to a 5 min zon'ozz fight?
The combat log hasn't had a redesign since Burning Crusade. The only thing it's had is a few minor args added to it, not anything that adversely affect overhead in the way you think.

I say 4.3.2 is a nice improvement for optimising data. It's one step toward a more efficent client. I hope they do find ways to address other issues in the future though. Maybe better multithreading and less time spent on cpu wait while many cores or even entire secondary CPUs are sitting idle. We shall see what MoP brings.

01/05/2012 02:17 PMPosted by Øtaku
GET BACK TO WORK ON MAKING DBM SKINNABLE!! *shakesfist*

Ha, :P
Edited by Omegal on 1/5/2012 2:27 PM PST
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96 Night Elf Hunter
7990
Good so I hope I can copy WOW folder to my 40 gig ssd that is also my OS boot drive?

WIndows 7 takes up a lot of space.

I hope instead that Blizz makes sure that to perform all its operations in the windows temp folder.
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90 Blood Elf Hunter
17510
Like Ressie pointed out, I did a bit of a comparison before. Don't take these at face value, and please consume with a large grain of salt! Your mileage will vary!!

Live vs. PTR - Root Folder:
http://i357.photobucket.com/albums/oo20/Kodiack_Film/LivevsPTR.png

Live vs. PTR - Data Folder (excluding Data\Cache):
http://i357.photobucket.com/albums/oo20/Kodiack_Film/LivevsPTR-Data.png

Live vs. PTR - Data\Cache:
http://i357.photobucket.com/albums/oo20/Kodiack_Film/LivevsPTR-Cache.png

And here's a post that I submitted yesterday regarding this process:

From what I've gathered this seems to be consolidating files more than anything else, such as increasing framerates. It may slightly improve load times or something of the sort, although the biggest thing it seems to have going for it is the large cleanup it's performing on the way the MPQs are stored.

Currently on live (excluding Data\Cache) there are 84 files and 8 folders in the Data folder totaling 15.3 GB. On the PTR the Data folder is only 47 files and 6 folders adding up to 14.7 GB (once again, these numbers exclude Data\Cache).

The Data\Cache folder on live is 10.4 GB spread across 62 files and the localization (enUS) folder. On the PTR, it's 7.23 GB with 104 files and the localization folder. It's also worth noting that on PTR most of the files are sound cache files, while on live there are many patch-base files. I'm not sure whether that would be the same for everyone, though, so take that with a grain of salt.

In the end, this "optimization" process seems to be aimed at trimming out some of the fat. Players running WoW off of solid state drives are probably the ones that will find the smaller file sizes most exciting.


That's about as much information as I have still. Assuming I find anything else interesting out, I'll be sure to share. If you have any questions for me regarding this that are within my realm of knowledge, feel free to ask and I'll answer as soon as possible.

**EDIT
The ability to install updates with limited drive space is also great. :)
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Edited by Kodiack on 1/5/2012 2:53 PM PST
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100 Troll Druid
22420
If this requires us to re-download anything we already have, it sounds terrible for people like me who take 40 hours to download wow in the first place.
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90 Blood Elf Hunter
17510
01/05/2012 05:06 PMPosted by Aurune
If this requires us to re-download anything we already have, it sounds terrible for people like me who take 40 hours to download wow in the first place.


The average download size for most people seems to be between 3-4 GB.
________________________________________________
The wise speak only of what they know. - J.R.R. Tolkien
CORE I7 3.8GHz | 12GB RAM | ATI 5970+5870 | F120 SSD
Live WoW Tech Support: irc://chat.freenode.net/wowtech
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100 Troll Druid
22420
01/05/2012 07:04 PMPosted by Kodiack
If this requires us to re-download anything we already have, it sounds terrible for people like me who take 40 hours to download wow in the first place.


The average download size for most people seems to be between 3-4 GB.
________________________________________________
The wise speak only of what they know. - J.R.R. Tolkien
CORE I7 3.8GHz | 12GB RAM | ATI 5970+5870 | F120 SSD
Live WoW Tech Support: irc://chat.freenode.net/wowtech


an easy 15 hours for me, perfect.
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100 Draenei Mage
7145
01/05/2012 09:26 AMPosted by Gaudaloht
Is there any option to disable this tool?


Not in the build currently on the PTR,

That doesn't of course mean an option to turn it off won't be coming. I would wait on a Blue post about that.
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100 Draenei Mage
7145
01/05/2012 05:06 PMPosted by Aurune
If this requires us to re-download anything we already have, it sounds terrible for people like me who take 40 hours to download wow in the first place.


Well this is just the first build of it on the PTR.

There could be a launcher update coming that moves the shrinking process to the launcher instead of having to re download stuff. We don't know.

We also don't know if the technology they used to do this shrinking is up for re-distribution or not.
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100 Draenei Mage
7145
01/05/2012 10:52 AMPosted by Schrei
If this is the case, I'm curious what this means for WoWmodelviewer. There are a lot of items that we can see there that aren't used at all in game, but are fun to have around for various artsy stuff.


You'll need to ask about that on the wmv forums :

http://wowmodelviewer.org/forum/
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100 Human Warrior
20830
I'm on a 1M connection, downloading 3.7 gigs was a LONG process for me, but it is a resumable process, and doesn't need you to stay in attendance to hit anything. I did most of it while i slept. It's not as bad as it sounds up front.
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90 Blood Elf Mage
8560
01/05/2012 12:29 PMPosted by Zifira
Great, to bad I bought a 4 gig computer. =/


If your computer is fairly new, I would suspect that 4gb is just the ram not the size of your memory cache. I run a 3gb/320 hard drive but I need to update my power supply and graphics card, however, I can do pretty much everything but a 25 man raid in the game (25 mans slow even new computers to a crawl if they aren't rigged with the ultimate in hd video cards)
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