WoW No Longer Compatible with Windows 2000

1 Human Paladin
0
01/09/2012 10:05 AMPosted by Ain
Is it really wise to alienate any of your consumers when you're already losing subscriptions at an alarming rate? This seems like a poor course of action.

Blizzard probably did not go out of their way to break compatibility just to break compatibility.

Most likely, they either 1) wanted to take advantage of a feature offered by all the more current OS's / computers (this is why games don't all offer a 640x480 in 2D mode for universal compatibility); 2) could not afford to support the older OS (technical support calls from users of these older computers were costing more than the revenue they brought in), or 3) a critical bug affecting say a piece of Blizz infrastructure was identified in Win 2000 that Microsoft would no longer fix.

Also: "the subscribers lost at an alarming rate" may or may not be relevant here. If a big chunk of them were lost due to problems offering the game in China, that's probably not something that provides any useful input into what OSs should be supported in their other markets.
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All I can say is: Once you go Mac, you can never go back.
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90 Worgen Druid
0
Is it really wise to alienate any of your consumers when you're already losing subscriptions at an alarming rate? This seems like a poor course of action.

Even assuming just 5%(probably realistic), that's a hit of over 400,000 subscribers - literally overnight. I don't think this is a wise thing to do.


Considering Steam's statistics (a sampling of data from several million gamers), 0.3% of their subscribers are running 'other' OSes. The sampling for Win2k is so minuscule as to be bundled in with the smorgasbord of random and outdated OSs.

Your serendipitous statistics and presumed numbers, much like your argument, are completely uninformed, uneducated and invalid.
Edited by Wolf on 1/9/2012 11:47 AM PST
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This reminds me of the backlash following Blizzard's announcement of dropping support for PowerPC-based Macs right before Cata hit. Despite all the computers affected being 5 years old or older (we're talking single-core CPU and Radeon 9600 generation, folks) and barely being able to run WoW in Northrend with 5-10FPS, several Mac users still ended up quitting.
Edited by Krandon on 1/9/2012 11:45 AM PST
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01/09/2012 11:41 AMPosted by Worblehat
All I can say is: Once you go Mac, you can never go back.


Not by choice anyways. /cry
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90 Blood Elf Paladin
1525
01/09/2012 11:41 AMPosted by Worblehat
All I can say is: Once you go Mac, you can never go back.

I grew up with a mac and went PC... sorry bud
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66 Undead Mage
675


If you can run Windows 2000, there's no reason you can't run XP. The hardware requirements are basically the same between the two.

Better yet, buy a new machine. Your game experience will improve greatly coming from a Windows 2000-era computer. I guarantee it.


No, no no no no no no no no no. There are so many compatability issues between the two it's frightening. Especially when considering many of the machines that are still using W2k are that way due to legacy software and some hardware that will not work on XP/forward.

I'd venture to say that the W2k players are running it because of a primary need and just happen to run WoW on it as well. Now, that's not to say that it's time to upgrade the equipment attached to it as well, but I can tell you from first hand experience... Telling someone or a business that it's time to drop W2k is like telling them to fork over hundreds of thousands if not a few million dollars to update everything that machine is currently running.............


Time to upgrade. Eleven+ years is a long time. Microsoft stopped updating it more than a year ago excluding .net fixes.

Keep a copy of W2K to run old PC games that don't run in compatibility mode. For everything else, it's time to bite the bullet and get W7 or go Linux.
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No, no no no no no no no no no. There are so many compatability issues between the two it's frightening. Especially when considering many of the machines that are still using W2k are that way due to legacy software and some hardware that will not work on XP/forward.

I'd venture to say that the W2k players are running it because of a primary need and just happen to run WoW on it as well. Now, that's not to say that it's time to upgrade the equipment attached to it as well, but I can tell you from first hand experience... Telling someone or a business that it's time to drop W2k is like telling them to fork over hundreds of thousands if not a few million dollars to update everything that machine is currently running.............


Time to upgrade. Eleven+ years is a long time. Microsoft stopped updating it more than a year ago excluding .net fixes.

Keep a copy of W2K to run old PC games that don't run in compatibility mode. For everything else, it's time to bite the bullet and get W7 or go Linux.


As powerful as today's computers are, you don't even need a separate computer… grab VirtualBox and run Windows 2000 in a virtual machine.
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90 Pandaren Warrior
16560



Time to upgrade. Eleven+ years is a long time. Microsoft stopped updating it more than a year ago excluding .net fixes.

Keep a copy of W2K to run old PC games that don't run in compatibility mode. For everything else, it's time to bite the bullet and get W7 or go Linux.


As powerful as today's computers are, you don't even need a separate computer… grab VirtualBox and run Windows 2000 in a virtual machine.


Since posters on this forum are obviously more intelegent than those with PhDs in electrical and computer engineering... Please explain to me how to run identify robotic control programs and legacy materials flow that BSOD on install for 2-3 million dollar robotic arms in Windows 7. Robots that have no programs available beyond W2k, and creating a program to do this will cost nearly as much as the robot itself.

Virtual boxes do not resolve hardware and COM compatability issues that even the Vitrual Box doesn't recognize due to lack of drivers and DLL support.



I'll wait.

BTW, I'm not fighting the WoW issue here. I'm trying to show you that it can be extremely expensive to just upgrade an OS. OS upgrades are NOT a simple thing at an enterprise level.
Edited by Dorrell on 1/9/2012 12:22 PM PST
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66 Undead Mage
675
01/09/2012 12:16 PMPosted by Krandon
As powerful as today's computers are, you don't even need a separate computer… grab VirtualBox and run Windows 2000 in a virtual machine.


Good idea but just try running those old PC games in VMs.
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As powerful as today's computers are, you don't even need a separate computer… grab VirtualBox and run Windows 2000 in a virtual machine.


Since posters on this forum are obviously more intelegent than those with PhDs in electrical and computer engineering... Please explain to me how to run identify robotic control programs and legacy materials flow that BSOD on install for 2-3 million dollar robotic arms in Windows 7. Robots that have no programs available beyond W2k, and creating a program to do this will cost nearly as much as the robot itself.

Virtual boxes do not resolve hardware and COM compatability issues that even the Vitrual Box doesn't recognize due to lack of drivers and DLL support.



I'll wait.

BTW, I'm not fighting the WoW issue here. I'm trying to show you that it can be extremely expensive to just upgrade an OS. OS upgrades are NOT a simple thing at an enterprise level.


If you really want to play WoW at work (which I wouldn't advise unless you have bucketloads of free time), I suggest a grabbing yourself a cheap laptop.

EDIT:

01/09/2012 12:26 PMPosted by Nullecke
As powerful as today's computers are, you don't even need a separate computer… grab VirtualBox and run Windows 2000 in a virtual machine.


Good idea but just try running those old PC games in VMs.


I haven't run into any old titles that won't run under DOSBox, VMWare, or VirtualBox. Which ones are problematic for you?
Edited by Krandon on 1/9/2012 12:28 PM PST
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85 Human Warrior
6605
01/09/2012 10:39 AMPosted by Krandon
I understand what you're saying, but at the same time there's no reason one can't set aside a little money each paycheck and after a few months, grab himself a $600 Windows 7 tower that will run WoW smoothly as butter and will last him another several years. Reasonably powerful computers aren't that expensive nowadays.
Problem is, people are already setting aside $15/month to play WoW plus whatever MoP costs when it's released. There's no reason to to think that people have even more money to set aside than they already are.

Worse, even if I could set aside $50/month, it would take me a year to before I can afford that new computer. $100/month cuts it to 6 months. When will MoP be released? Before that?

That said, Windows 2000 is old. Even basic programs are abandoning it.
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90 Pandaren Warrior
16560
01/09/2012 12:27 PMPosted by Krandon
If you really want to play WoW at work (which I wouldn't advise unless you have bucketloads of free time), I suggest a grabbing yourself a cheap laptop.


I'll repeat myself I guess.....



BTW, I'm not fighting the WoW issue here. I'm trying to show you that it can be extremely expensive to just upgrade an OS. OS upgrades are NOT a simple thing at an enterprise level.





01/09/2012 12:27 PMPosted by Krandon
I haven't run into any old titles that won't run under DOSBox, VMWare, or VirtualBox. Which ones are problematic for you?


Runs and runs correctly or even playable are two completely different things.

For instance, my high def TV will run my NES, but it looks like complete garbage and the digital artifacts that spring up from display issues get really annoying.
Edited by Dorrell on 1/9/2012 12:34 PM PST
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66 Undead Mage
675
Since posters on this forum are obviously more intelegent than those with PhDs in electrical and computer engineering... Please explain to me how to run identify robotic control programs and legacy materials flow that BSOD on install for 2-3 million dollar robotic arms in Windows 7. Robots that have no programs available beyond W2k, and creating a program to do this will cost nearly as much as the robot itself.

Virtual boxes do not resolve hardware and COM compatability issues that even the Vitrual Box doesn't recognize due to lack of drivers and DLL support.



I'll wait.

BTW, I'm not fighting the WoW issue here. I'm trying to show you that it can be extremely expensive to just upgrade an OS. OS upgrades are NOT a simple thing at an enterprise level.


I'd guess that the posters here are mostly consumers not enterprise customers. Different needs and priorities.

Besides, if that robotic arm using W2K actually played WoW, wouldn't it be botting in the most literal sense?
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90 Pandaren Warrior
16560
I'd guess that the posters here are mostly consumers not enterprise customers. Different needs and priorities.

Besides, if that robotic arm using W2K actually played WoW, wouldn't it be botting in the most literal sense?


We had to remove WoW from one of those 4 computers 6 months ago.

Take your imagination where it will..... >.>
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66 Undead Mage
675
01/09/2012 12:27 PMPosted by Krandon
I haven't run into any old titles that won't run under DOSBox, VMWare, or VirtualBox. Which ones are problematic for you?


I haven't tried it for a while but couldn't get Might & Magic V and VI to run in a W2K using Virtual Box when I tried to in 2009. Both sound and video problems. After that I didn't bother. Fortunately MM7 works fine in W7 compatibility mode.
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MVP - Technical Support
100 Human Warrior
19010
01/09/2012 10:05 AMPosted by Ain
Is it really wise to alienate any of your consumers when you're already losing subscriptions at an alarming rate? This seems like a poor course of action.


Microsoft has a pretty generous support on their OSes when it comes to making them supportable for long term. They literally only really force you to update once every 5 years. So it's not too unreasonable

Apple kills support for an outdated OS almost immediately following release a new OS. Despite this, blizz still goes out of their way to support OSes as far back as they can even though not only are the they not getting bugfixes, they aren't even allowed the luxury of a driver update. Apple users are forced to upgrade more often if they want any level of support from Apple's end.

Blizz developers can only do so much to support legacy code. When an OS has ended it's lifespan, it stops receiving updates/bugfixes. Blizz games cannot continue to be developed when the OS it's running on lacks critical apis or critical bugfixes and can no longer expect MS/Apple to address them.

Blizz is a company that goes above and beyond in supporting as many users as they can, even if it literally costs dev time to do it or really ridiculous hacks they have to put in their own software to make it run on old OSes. Only when it's beyond fixable do they drop it, which is such the case for windows 2000 going forward, or how PPC macs had to be dropped in 4.0 after devs spent months doing best they could during cataclysm beta to make them work. ultimately the legacy code in the no longer supported OS had issues that become beyond fixable at application level and a stable client for those users can be delivered no longer.
Edited by Omegal on 1/9/2012 6:34 PM PST
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MVP
86 Night Elf Priest
7720
I will pipe in to say that back when WRATH was in the pipeline, Blizzard had listed WinXP as the earliest supported Operating System. I know. I was running Windows 2000 until less than 2 years ago on my home system. I literally emailed Tech Support before it launched to ask if that meant it didn't work - or just that they wouldn't help with issues. (With Wrath it was the latter.) That it still worked until now has been excellent, but eventually there does come a time when software cannot be kept retroactively compatible.

We had to do it where I work as well. Between drivers which are not written for anything before XP and functionalities with 64-bit which don't work on earlier systems but that customers want to see in the software, we have had to move on. Yes, sometimes that means we keep a few creakers around for far longer than they should survive. We have one DOS computer that only gets turned on when certain old irreplaceable programs are needed, a couple of Win95, and only recently did the WinNT and Novell servers get replaced.
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85 Worgen Druid
10610
Is it really wise to alienate any of your consumers when you're already losing subscriptions at an alarming rate? This seems like a poor course of action.

Even assuming just 5%(probably realistic), that's a hit of over 400,000 subscribers - literally overnight. I don't think this is a wise thing to do.


You have to look at it from other angles. Windows 2000 is very old at this point, You're asking them to spend whatever fraction of time and resources it would take to get MoP to run on such an ancient OS, which could instead be used for the growth of the game itself (which may in fact cause subscriptions to be gained by the new content / features). The game needs to advance, and its not doing it at such a painfully fast speed that you need a new OS / computer every expansion.

Yeah it sucks for anyone that is still on a Windows 2000 machine with a tight budget, but the times are changing.
Edited by Zephn on 1/9/2012 1:15 PM PST
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MVP - Technical Support
100 Human Warrior
19010
I will pipe in to say that back when WRATH was in the pipeline, Blizzard had listed WinXP as the earliest supported Operating System. I know. I was running Windows 2000 until less than 2 years ago on my home system. I literally emailed Tech Support before it launched to ask if that meant it didn't work - or just that they wouldn't help with issues. (With Wrath it was the latter.) That it still worked until now has been excellent, but eventually there does come a time when software cannot be kept retroactively compatible.


This is same for mac OS X 10.4.11 actually. It was dropped as minimum in cataclysm but despite that, the devs still went out of their way to make sure it worked through cataclysm, if the fixes were within reason. MoP will probably actually kill it for real though as the same boat as win 2000.
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