Are all MMORPG's like this?

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90 Human Warlock
12950
01/13/2012 02:49 PMPosted by Daxxarri
and we're always looking for ways to expand and improve the end-game experience to make it more engaging for different players.


Lighten up on Transmog restrictions & they will be very happy in end-game! ;D

Well, it couldn't make them unhappy!
90 Night Elf Hunter
19280
01/13/2012 02:52 PMPosted by Killercaitie
and we're always looking for ways to expand and improve the end-game experience to make it more engaging for different players.


Lighten up on Transmog restrictions & they will be very happy in end-game! ;D

Well, it couldn't make them unhappy!



Well... we are lucky to even have Transmog at this point >_>

I don't find any need to complain about it for what it is..
85 Human Paladin
4390
I've played other games like Runescape (where I keep a lvl 134 character who is in the top 30,000 overall) and RIFT in the past. Some were good, some were bad.

Frankly I'm tired of the MMORPG genre in general. It seems a lot of them are falling into this 'elitist' trap where the people that play these games think they can outshine others based on the time they've been playing.

There's a pretty damn good reason why there are more veterans on WoW than there are new players. Actually, roughly 80-85 percent of everybody I talk to on my server are veterans who started in 2004-2005.
85 Blood Elf Mage
1385
01/12/2012 07:48 AMPosted by Hadhan
Sadly not a lot of people have this sort of mentality....They just rush to max level, do a couple raids/BG's, and then complain to Blizzard about how bored they are and about the lack of new content.


It may be sad, but none the less, it’s very true. What is there to actually do? Do a battleground? Run a heroic? Run a raid? There is almost no reason what so ever to venture out into the world. You can sit in the city and just wait for q’s to pop. Prior to 2008 there were lots of reasons to venture into the world. Since 2008 everyone just sits in the city mostly trolling...
85 Human Paladin
4390
That's why they troll and grind dailies Gitchy.

I guess the old saying 'The Truth Hurts' still applies today.
85 Blood Elf Paladin
5905
This past week I've been trying something that might be the solution for your (mine), and many other players' predicament of being in a grind-based MMO.

Roleplaying.

Look it up and see if you could get into it, you might be surprised. It's fun, it's always different, It adds a lot of depth and immersion to the game, and it can be done with minimal peer pressure. Just avoid Goldshire.

Oh, and it can be done at any level.
Edited by Minnerva on 1/13/2012 3:38 PM PST
85 Human Paladin
4390
I could easily move my characters to a role-playing based server, but I just don't have the time or money to do so.

Roleplaying servers assume that you are actually inside the WoW environment where the character you play is your actual personality. Think of it as being one of the characters in Lord of the Rings, or Harry Potter. You basically are an actor playing a character and acting as that character on a roleplaying server.
85 Worgen Priest
8005

I agree. Unfortunately Blizz decided that endgame was king when they made the leveling process take no time at all.


That wasn't arbitrary decision, nor did we arrive at it lightly. There are more than a few factors which played into it, but I'll cover one of the really big ones:

People often play MMOs to play alongside their friends and share adventures. That social experience is important, and it can feel a bit lonely when your friends and most of the rest of the playing population is cavorting around at the level cap while you're just starting out.

It's true that some players will create new characters to level up alongside their pals (or invite a new player using the Recruit A Friend service), but all too often a new player will end up on a realm and be expected to level up with relatively little assistance before they can join their friends on their 'end game' adventures. There are now also three expansions worth of new leveling content to experience in addition to the classic quest line which takes players from 1-60. We wanted to make it easier for players to come into the game and enjoy the leveling process, but also join their friends who are already playing on a more reasonable time frame. Another reason that questing seems faster is that we've learned a lot of lessons about quest and zone design flow since the old days - you might notice this when transitioning from Azeroth to Outland now, for example.

The leveling experience is important to us, which is part of the reason we revamped Azeroth for Cataclysm. It can be fun, rich and engaging without taking as much time as it used to. Still, at the end of the day, end game gets so much attention because that's where players spend the majority of their time. We do understand that not everyone enjoys the same types of game play, and we're always looking for ways to expand and improve the end-game experience to make it more engaging for different players.


When two majors parts of a system seem to be in conflict, then perhaps it is the overall system that needs to change.

For whatever it may or may not be worth, I have personally grown tired of endgame content. I play games for their story, usually. The social aspect of WoW, along with its well-known time-killing properties, have kept me occupied for some time, but I'm beginning to feel like the game lacks that special OOMPH that would keep me logging in every day. Raids don't really provide an immersive lore experience, and seem to just be something to do because it's simply what is expected of us to do. And, sadly, it is all about gear. Considering that the gear will always be outdated with the next patch, I don't feel the drive to seek it out. With the advent of LFR, I finally lost all desire. I worked on normal progression up until shortly after the second half of LFR was released, but once I defeated DW in LFR and saw the ending cinematic, what was left for me? Nothing. I came, I saw, I conquered, I yawned. Playing through it over and over just to farm gear that will be replaced quickly in Mists does not do it for me, I'm afraid. The only thing that kept me going was progression, and my guild has always worked on that in a slow and methodical manner in order to allow our members the freedom to skip raids in favor of more important real life activities. As such, we were able to stretch out the content and make it last. I don't feel like harder modes are truly capable of doing that, however, so the patch was over for me as soon as the entirety of LFR was available. This made me wonder if the current method has grown stale, and if a new system for endgame content (or even all content) is in order.

After playing a game like Skyrim, I have a new idea of what kind of game can draw me in: one in which I grow attached to my character due to my choices and style of play. While it may be much to expect an amazing, cinematic experience or literary masterpiece from an MMO, I think it would be possible to make one that allows for a much more fulfilling experience, one that revolves around character growth as a concept, not as larger numbers and increasingly absurd-looking shoulderpads. Perhaps branching paths in normal questlines (i.e. the main story, not the Aldor/Scryer or Oracle/Frenzyheart side quests) that determine who your character sides with, their alignment, and any other number of things; the ability to make choices that impact my experience in the game, things I have to think carefully about, because they cannot be easily undone; things that define who I am when I log into the game. These things are very obviously missing from WoW, and it's sad.

Don't get me wrong, I still care about WoW. I love the lore and the characters. I just feel little connection to my own character, the one I've spent so much time on, in a game that seems more and more like a pointless grind. I'm hoping that some elements such as I mentioned above will be introduced in Mists, but I don't recall hearing that they will be. I will simply have to wait and see whether or not the game is able to draw me back in, or if it will simply fade completely into my mental background.
Edited by Armenius on 1/13/2012 3:42 PM PST
85 Human Paladin
4075
01/13/2012 02:49 PMPosted by Daxxarri
The leveling experience is important to us, which is part of the reason we revamped Azeroth for Cataclysm. It can be fun, rich and engaging without taking as much time as it used to.

It is for a bit than you once again fall into the slump of follow the icon in your map and mindlessly spam an ability until the first quest hub or two of Cata where mobs are actually any sort of threat and than it goes back to a mindless grind of watching a movie unfold. Than player hits level cap and is expected to know how to use their different spells they may have never used before because only than when the player starts doing group based content does their arsenal of abilities become relevant.
85 Blood Elf Paladin
5905
01/13/2012 03:35 PMPosted by Heartthrob
I could easily move my characters to a role-playing based server, but I just don't have the time or money to do so.


Why do you have to move them? Why don't you just create a new one as I did?

If it's about level don't you worry. Level or gear is a secondary factor to roleplay, it's basically a tool for possibilities that does not limit your experience at all.
85 Human Paladin
4390
@ Armenius

With that long statement you can easily explain why I haven't done anything for the past week.

WoW is lacking that engaging factor. When I play a game I expect to be entertained and surprised, not mindlessly working a part-time job with the temptation of banging my head against a wall.
85 Human Paladin
4390
@ Minnerva

Because I'm not going to pay or waste time creating a new character from scratch.

I don't have the time essentials to do that right now.

90 Human Priest
8080
One of the issues that I would like to point out about MMO's and Warcraft specifically is the forced progression placed on players of different levels. When WoW 1st came out we use to be able to stop our level progression by twinking in battlegrounds without gaining experience. By giving experience gains in battlegrounds Blizzard forced players to continue through the leveling wicket of player progression or to be separated from the normal leveling community. So whatever the blues may say about the leveling process they will force you to max level sooner or later - or remove you from the normal player base. Anytime players stray from the intended path designers will ensure that your freedom to choose your progression path is comparable to playing a console game. Are you really in control?

There is nothing wrong with your television set. Do not attempt to adjust the picture. We are controlling transmission. If we wish to make it louder, we will bring up the volume. If we wish to make it softer, we will tune it to a whisper. We will control the horizontal. We will control the vertical. We can roll the image; make it flutter. We can change the focus to a soft blur or sharpen it to crystal clarity. For the next hour, sit quietly and we will control all that you see and hear. We repeat: there is nothing wrong with your television set. You are about to participate in a great adventure. You are about to experience the awe and mystery which reaches from the inner mind to the outer limits.
Edited by Zayni on 1/13/2012 3:48 PM PST
85 Blood Elf Warlock
4645
01/13/2012 02:49 PMPosted by Daxxarri
We do understand that not everyone enjoys the same types of game play, and we're always looking for ways to expand and improve the end-game experience to make it more engaging for different players.


Couldn't you appeal to more people if you created a hardcore server (or more likely a few, I think they'd be very popular)? I know a lot of people who've quit because doing the hardest content has become unrewarding; it gets nerfed quickly and the gear it gives is only slightly better than their normal-raid counterparts. On top of that, badge gear and new dungeon gear (end time) allows you to skip whole raid instances by offering far better gear if you complete far easier dungeons.
Edited by Screws on 1/13/2012 3:56 PM PST
85 Human Paladin
4390
@ Screws

Good example of this was the nerfing of Firelands bosses shortly after the release of 4.2. Suddenly the bosses were much easier to handle to before, because I guess that too many people were whining that they took too long to bring down.
85 Night Elf Rogue
4655
To the UO people in this thread, Siege Perilous is the only server that is still full loot, save 1 item, with plenty of housing space. It is the only server that has managed to keep the old UO feel(as much as you can get after Aos, and that silly asian expansion). You can still compete with hand crafted armour.

I agree. Unfortunately Blizz decided that endgame was king when they made the leveling process take no time at all.


That wasn't arbitrary decision, nor did we arrive at it lightly. There are more than a few factors which played into it, but I'll cover one of the really big ones:

People often play MMOs to play alongside their friends and share adventures. That social experience is important, and it can feel a bit lonely when your friends and most of the rest of the playing population is cavorting around at the level cap while you're just starting out.

It's true that some players will create new characters to level up alongside their pals (or invite a new player using the Recruit A Friend service), but all too often a new player will end up on a realm and be expected to level up with relatively little assistance before they can join their friends on their 'end game' adventures. There are now also three expansions worth of new leveling content to experience in addition to the classic quest line which takes players from 1-60. We wanted to make it easier for players to come into the game and enjoy the leveling process, but also join their friends who are already playing on a more reasonable time frame. Another reason that questing seems faster is that we've learned a lot of lessons about quest and zone design flow since the old days - you might notice this when transitioning from Azeroth to Outland now, for example.

The leveling experience is important to us, which is part of the reason we revamped Azeroth for Cataclysm. It can be fun, rich and engaging without taking as much time as it used to. Still, at the end of the day, end game gets so much attention because that's where players spend the majority of their time. We do understand that not everyone enjoys the same types of game play, and we're always looking for ways to expand and improve the end-game experience to make it more engaging for different players.


Thank you for an informative post. What you state makes a lot of sense.
100 Undead Warrior
13465
Sounds like Guild Wars 2 will be your kind of game. Seeya there.
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