1 Worgen Warrior
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I have been looking at the MoP talent trees, and to be honest, I'm incredibly disappointed. It looks so dumbed down with very little customization, compared to where talents are right now.
It almost seems like Blizzard is going backwards with talent trees; the game releases with a simple, 6 point talent tree. Then, as the game grows, developers decide to make talent trees more sophisticated with more freedom and options overall. So my question is, with only 6 'tiers' of talents after MoP, what is happening to all the other talents that are currently in game? Are they going to be skills you learn from your class trainer, either active or passive? Or removed from the game completely? |
1 Undead Mage
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Edited by Hikillerhiod on 1/16/12 10:46 AM (PST)
Skills that you learn through talent trees will be learned through a trainer.
Talent trees still have a lot of customization. 729 unique combinations per class (Not sure if math is right - I believe it is though). I'm sure they will add onto this system eventually (future expansions?) and it will grow gradually more complex. |
Think about what you just wrote. Pick any class and talent spec. How many actual choices do you have for talent placement "right now"? Answer: 0 to 3, depending on whether you're one of the lucky specs out there with some freedom of point placement. Some classes have zero choices -- if they shift any points at all out of the cookie cutter spec, they no longer reach optimal play, end of story. Right now it's not customization. Right now it's jumping through hoops. |
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Right. Allow me to ask you something: How many of your talent choices do you actually remember?
Because I remember one: Beast Mastery. With the new system, there are fewer actual talents, but they are all signifigant and memorable. |
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I'm confused, we had options when choosing talents up to now? After picking up all the needed dps skills, we were left with a few points that we could put into small passives for the most part. Back in vanilla, when people did weird hybrid specs, Blizzard nerfed them since the game was designed for us to go all the way down one tree.
Right now the choices in tiers are often picking between a dps increase and picking something that would not affect dps (similar to tank and heals). In this situation, you are often punished (sometimes by large amounts) for not picking the required ones. In the new system, all those required ones are learned as you level (you just do not have to click a box) and you get to choose between 6 tiers of interesting choices (some have no 100% right answer for 99% of all situations). Compared to now, I only get 2 points to put where I want, and I could leave them blank without affecting anything meaningful. |
Community Manager
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Edited by Lylirra on 1/20/12 3:02 PM (PST)
A little of both. :) To better explain, let's divide the current talents into five categories: 1) mandatory, 2) very cool, but not mandatory, 3) sort of cool, 4) boring, and 5) useless. We're going to give you all of the "mandatory" talents to your class spec, and you'll learn those talents at certain levels like you do with core class spells. Players who skip over what we consider mandatory talents today -- like Raging Blow or Hot Streak -- are unintentionally (or maybe even intentionally) gimping themselves, and that's not what we want to have happen. We want players to be able to experience the full power of their class, so we're going to award certain talents straight-out. The second category of talents -- the cool, but not mandatory ones -- are really the heart of the new talent system (they're the talents you'll probably be choosing from in each of new six tiers). You may be glad you have talent A, but talent B and talent C are also compelling options, and it should ideally be an interesting choice about which one you take and when. The third category of talents are still pretty cool, but they just aren't at the same level as other talents. These talents make good glyphs. For example, an early version of the warrior tree had Rude Interruption as a talent, but we feel it's too situational to compete with the other talents, so we'll likely make it a glyph. The next category are boring talents -- the kind that reduce cooldowns or increase damage on some abilities. In most cases, we're just baking talents these right into the spells themselves. While there were occasionally situations where you got to decide which of these talents to take, the answers often relied on complex math problems that some other player ended up solving for most of us. Finally, the current trees (despite our best efforts) still have some bad talents. They're the talents you almost inevtiably end up with when you have a talent tree with X rows and Y columns that you need to populate. In the end, not a lot of players end up taking these talents, so we'll just cut them. We don't think they'll be missed, but if turns out that players wind up actually missing some of the Cataclysm talents in the Mist of Pandaria design, then we've probably made a mistake somewhere. Ideally, you won't miss a thing and will have more fun picking talents that cater to your play style (or, at the very least, the current situation.) |
#6
1/20/2012
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Edited by Snow on 1/20/12 2:20 PM (PST)
The second category of talents -- the cool, but not mandatory ones -- are really the heart of the new talent system (they're the talents you'll probably be choosing from in each of new six tiers). You may be glad you have talent A, but talent B and talent C are also compelling options, and it should ideally be an interesting choice about which one you take and when.I'm eager to see the final dk talent tiers. I keep thinking that tiers will either have an automatic best choice for each encounter or that all 3 choices are close enough that it doesn't matter which you choose. I wouldn't use the word interesting to describe either of those options. It just seems like the talent system is going to become a second glyph system. |
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"We're going to give you all of the "mandatory" talents to your class spec, and you'll learn those talents at certain levels like you do with core class spells. Players who skip over what we consider mandatory talents today -- like Raging Blow or Hot Streak -- are unintentionally (or maybe even intentionally) gimping themselves, and that's not what we want to have happen. We want players to be able to experience the full power of their class, so we're going to award certain talents straight-out." I am sorry, but huh? What gives you the right to tell people "this is the way your class should be played", instead of letting them figure it out for themselves and decide what is the best for them PERSONALLY? Even if "Raging Blow and Hot Streak" are great talents, we should be able to spec into what ever we choose, "gimped" or not. |
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Edited by Cyous on 1/20/12 2:32 PM (PST)
That's terrible logic. It's like asking for a rubber band-finger slingshot over a real pistol. Giving players the talents they should take is a QoL change. |
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Level a mage to 85, spec fire and skip hot streak. If after that you still think it is actually a choice, then you come back to explain us your point using actual game experiences. |
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Edited by Snow on 1/20/12 2:33 PM (PST)
I think they have said in a blog or q&a that they don't want new or uninformed players to be able to "gimp" their spec. |
Maybe you're just so bad that you don't realize there are virtually NO optional talents currently. For almost all classes there is the one single configuration that has been tested to produce the best DPS/healing/survivability. Not very fun! You also sound like a whiny kid. WHAT GIVES BLIZZARD THE RIGHT TO DESIGN THEIR GAME?!? lmao. |
I doubt it's going to be scrapped. I guess the logic is that a player specs bad, then has a bad experience trying to raid or whatnot for awhile, and then quits the game because it's not fun.I think they have said a blog or q&a that they don't want new or uninformed players to be able to "gimp" their spec |
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Edited by Dns on 1/20/12 2:41 PM (PST)
Feline Swiftness in the 1st tier of the Druid tree is a mandatory talent for feral pvp due to positional requirements and latency. The other 2 talents, displacer beast and tireless pursuit are cool to have talents. I think you should move the 10% run speed bonus from Feline Swiftness into Tireless Pursuit and then bake the 30% cat form speed into feral/guardian specs. Finally, replace Feline Swiftness with a brand new talent. As it is now, for feral pvp, there is no choice in the 1st tier. |
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Edited by Purefail on 1/20/12 2:42 PM (PST)
Maybe you're just so bad that you don't realize there are virtually NO optional talents currently. For almost all classes there is the one single configuration that has been tested to produce the best DPS/healing/survivability. Not very fun! Must be. |
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What makes you think it will be any different with the new talent system planned for MOP? People will still theorycraft the best talent choices for every scenario, and people will still be copying them. |
They arent telling people to do anything. You will still be able to choose, in fact have more of a personal choice, in what you want your character to do. There is no mage that doesnt want Hot Streak but there are mages that might not have specd into it because of lack of knowledge. They are removing this issue. If your mad because they arent giving us the opportunity destroy our talents to ineffectively use our class then you sir can be mad all by yourself. This system is built to let us have MORE of a choice of what we want our class to do, instead of a clear cookie cutter spec. Why not get rid of unintentional mistakes? |
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The current iteration of my tree is more like "Which talent will actually do something occasionally?" |
I am sorry, but huh? What gives you the right to tell people "this is the way your class should be played", instead of letting them figure it out for themselves and decide what is the best for them PERSONALLY? 1. They have the right because they created the game. 2. If the devs do a good job and each tier has three competitive choices -- choices which are good for all three specs in a variety of situations -- we'll have a lot more choices than prior to MoP. 3. Your name is fitting. Blizzard should cancel the subscription of any Fire Mage who skips Hot Streak. |
