Nerfs.

85 Dwarf Hunter
10915
OP seems to be forgetting that the incoming nerf to dragonsoul is able to be toggled off. There you go OP, problem solved.
90 Human Warrior
16790
OP seems to be forgetting that the incoming nerf to dragonsoul is able to be toggled off. There you go OP, problem solved.


While the 5% can be toggled off, the remaining 10-20% nerfs to specific mechanics can not. Problem back on.
85 Human Rogue
10475
01/23/2012 12:49 PMPosted by Garik
OP seems to be forgetting that the incoming nerf to dragonsoul is able to be toggled off. There you go OP, problem solved.



You fail to see this is an EASY way out for anybody who is not WILLING to learn the encounter or mechanics of an encounter to progress on the fight and furthermore even kill it once they learn said abilities.


I run in pug ICC25s from time to time, and with the 35% buff on there are still people at 85 in 370+ ilevel still doing UNDER 15k DPS. These are the same people who are complaining DS Normal and Heroic is too hard.

90 Human Paladin
10025
Don't whine, they made it so you can turn it off. More or less its like turning on a handicap for the bads kay? if your good then don't worrie about it.
87 Worgen Druid
9905
01/23/2012 12:21 PMPosted by Turagent
I firmly believe that there should not be any content / gear in the game that less than half of one percent of the player base will ever get to earn. That's it.


Thank god this isn't a thread about Arena/RBG achievements then.


That's different, players set the difficulty level.

When you are versus players of different skill level, no doubt there will be players that are in the top 1%.

Good thing you don't need gladiator to have a full set of gear though.
90 Goblin Death Knight
18250
01/23/2012 12:54 PMPosted by Teqnic
OP seems to be forgetting that the incoming nerf to dragonsoul is able to be toggled off. There you go OP, problem solved.



You fail to see this is an EASY way out for anybody who is not WILLING to learn the encounter or mechanics of an encounter to progress on the fight and furthermore even kill it once they learn said abilities.


I run in pug ICC25s from time to time, and with the 35% buff on there are still people at 85 in 370+ ilevel still doing UNDER 15k DPS. These are the same people who are complaining DS Normal and Heroic is too hard.


A 5% buff isn't going to magically make players adhere to mechanics
90 Goblin Death Knight
18250
The people complaining about the 5% buff in the heroic contention are just silly.

1. Your strive for server first won't change.
2. A 5% buff is not that big of an increase, even across the board.
90 Goblin Death Knight
18250
The people complaining about the 5% buff in the heroic contention are just silly.

1. Your strive for server first won't change.
2. A 5% buff is not that big of an increase, even across the board.


The datamined spell stacks to 35%. 5% is irrelevant, everything could have just beed tuned 5% from release, it doesn't really matter. If you come within 5% of killing a boss, you're going to get it eventually.

Now, 35%......my point is when you nerf 35% out of hardmode, it's no longer freaking hardmode. I'd argue it's easier than normal mode at that point.


It's 5% a month though. If you haven't it done it by then, too bad.
90 Human Death Knight
0
01/23/2012 12:46 PMPosted by Teqnic
Another thing I've seen from guilds who haven't down Heroic Bosses is they give 3-4 pulls on it, don't progress or learn something because something happens and instead of going back and saying "Hey what did we do wrong that we can fix?" They say "Hey it's too hard lets wait for nerfs then come kill it. "


It seems like Blizzard might consider wiping more than 3/4 times hitting a wall now sadly. Wiping is par for the course in heroic mode raiding. My team frequently wipes 50 or more times on a boss before the eventual kill depending on our gear level and the difficulty of the boss. Top 100 guilds often log considerably more wipes than this before killing a boss. If you aren't willing to wipe, pick up the pieces, and improve your strategy then it doesn't feel like heroic raiding should be targetted for you. I find it much more satisfying to down a boss I've had to work at than to kill one in 3/4 attempts. I wish Blizzard would consider leaving one difficulty mode for people who do enjoy this play style. Wasn't this the reason they split of heroic and normal modes to begin with? People who perfer things easier have 2 entire raid difficulties set to cater to them. Can't the people who enjoy challenge have one? Also, anyone who leads a progressive raiding guild will tell you that this buff is not optional.
5 Tauren Paladin
0
Yeah, this new way of handling raids/dungeons since WoltK has sure made this game just EXPLODE with new players! Aaaand has kept the old vets around for ages!

Oh wait...
90 Orc Shaman
13550
01/23/2012 01:12 PMPosted by Dyná


Thank god this isn't a thread about Arena/RBG achievements then.


That's different, players set the difficulty level.

When you are versus players of different skill level, no doubt there will be players that are in the top 1%.

Good thing you don't need gladiator to have a full set of gear though.


Actually, PvP is different because there is essentially no content, not because players set the skill level.

What's your point, anyway, that players should set the PvE difficulty? There wouldn't be a difficulty setting, since apparently everyone hates wiping.
90 Orc Shaman
13550



The datamined spell stacks to 35%. 5% is irrelevant, everything could have just beed tuned 5% from release, it doesn't really matter. If you come within 5% of killing a boss, you're going to get it eventually.

Now, 35%......my point is when you nerf 35% out of hardmode, it's no longer freaking hardmode. I'd argue it's easier than normal mode at that point.


It's 5% a month though. If you haven't it done it by then, too bad.


How's that sentiment any different from me going "You can't beat that boss? Too bad"?
Edited by Hyjinx on 1/23/2012 1:44 PM PST
87 Worgen Druid
9905
[quote="39410132654"]Can't the people who enjoy challenge have one? Also, anyone who leads a progressive raiding guild will tell you that this buff is not optional.


Sure. There's plenty of ways to enjoy a challenge that doesn't involve developing an entire difficulty setting tailored for the top 500 players out of 12 million.

Guys, do the math.

There aren't even enough people in New York city to fill a 25 man raid capable of defeating 8/8H.

Don't you think that ratio is a little lopsided?
85 Blood Elf Priest
5405
I've said it before and I'll say it again...you guys who spend 20+ hours a week do not pay more to play this game than the working adult guilds or busy-with-scholastic/sports/friends adolescent guilds who can only get 4 hours a week of raid time due to obligations. We, by and large, progress more per hour (although far longer by the calendar) than the uberstars who practice all through the beta and the PTR, come into release already knowing the fights, then proceed to stroke their epeens about how magical they are. So turn off the buff at the fight and finish your content. If you you're truly uber, you'd have downed it already. It's been months. You're not a true progression guild. Is it really that big of a deal that some 12 year old troll is going to see your achievement date as past the nerf date? If so, you have some growing up to do.
90 Orc Shaman
13550
01/23/2012 01:45 PMPosted by Dyná
[quote]
Can't the people who enjoy challenge have one? Also, anyone who leads a progressive raiding guild will tell you that this buff is not optional.


Sure. There's plenty of ways to enjoy a challenge that doesn't involve developing an entire difficulty setting tailored for the top 500 players out of 12 million.

Guys, do the math.

There aren't even enough people in New York city to fill a 25 man raid capable of defeating 8/8H.

Don't you think that ratio is a little lopsided?


You can't really bring that sort of math into it. I mean, you can, but it all looks stupid because the vast majority of players never do endgame content at all. Hell, I'm not even sure the vast majority of players reach 85. If you go by this sort of logic, there shouldn't be an endgame at all.
90 Pandaren Warrior
16560
Sure. There's plenty of ways to enjoy a challenge that doesn't involve developing an entire difficulty setting tailored for the top 500 players out of 12 million.

Guys, do the math.

There aren't even enough people in New York city to fill a 25 man raid capable of defeating 8/8H.

Don't you think that ratio is a little lopsided?


Okay, that's just the thing. Right at this moment in time, this isn't lopsided, this is what's supposed to be happening.

There's a reason you get better gear each week, it's so you can 'progress' though the content with a little more powerful group the next week. It has nothing to do with killing or downing the bosses RIGHT NOW, it has everything to do with doing so, two months from now.

The nerf is artificially speeding up the progression stream, something that a lot fo players don't want done. AND something that should only BE done when there is a problem with the way the content was developed in the first place.
90 Orc Shaman
13550
01/23/2012 01:47 PMPosted by Astreya
I've said it before and I'll say it again...you guys who spend 20+ hours a week do not pay more to play this game than the working adult guilds or busy-with-scholastic/sports/friends adolescent guilds who can only get 4 hours a week of raid time due to obligations. We, by and large, progress more per hour (although far longer by the calendar) than the uberstars who practice all through the beta and the PTR, come into release already knowing the fights, then proceed to stroke their epeens about how magical they are. So turn off the buff at the fight and finish your content. If you you're truly uber, you'd have downed it already. It's been months. You're not a true progression guild. Is it really that big of a deal that some 12 year old troll is going to see your achievement date as past the nerf date? If so, you have some growing up to do.


I'll say this again, too.. you're only paying for server access. Also, it's very shallow of you to intimate that you can't be successful at WoW and do something else. I'd say you have some growing up to do. The world isn't black or white, WoW or Life.

And it hasn't been months. Tomorrow is week 7 or 8 of Heroic access. That isn't "months".
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