Nerfs.

6 Night Elf Rogue
0
Yes, it CAN be turned off. But that kinda ruins competition.
100 Tauren Druid
21795
01/23/2012 02:50 PMPosted by Coldêthyl
If your good enough turn it off, if you want simple as that.


Yes and kill all hope of recruiting players... yes... good choice there.

Fact is if you turn off the buff your progression in relation to those that don't turn it off suffer. So when you inevitably lose players due to them having RL issues / bored of the game etc you will fall behind on recruitment as people see you as only being at X point in progression... whilst those that are using said buff are X+1 or more ahead of you.

You will not get the recruits you need because they'll percieve that those ahead of you are better progressed... that will kill your guild off there and then and prevent you raiding the harder method.

So no Turning it off is not a viable alternative because there is no incentive for your new recruits to have it off in the first place. A guild cannot survive raiding HMs without good recruits you realise?
87 Worgen Druid
9905
I mispoke my original statement when I said New York. I meant Manhattan, which has just over 1.4 million population.

Even if you count all 5 boroughs, you could still fit the number of players with 8/8H complete into a 2 bedroom apartment.


I'm still going to go ahead and say that if you are going to find a population of players skilled enough to down this content, you'll find them in New York, and potentially on Manhattan.

Don't doubt us ...it's tough to live here, and you'll find some of the smartest people in the world here.


I meant no slight on the city of New York. I believe it's one of the greatest cities in the world. It just happened to fit my number and ratio example, especially if you're a resident, it's easier to visualize the numbers I'm talking about.

Let's just change the example for a minute, and we'll go with something I'm intimately familiar with, my own 10 man guild / group.

We're 3/8 heroic right now. We have no problem killing Morchok. We don't really have many problems with Yor Sahj, but that's because our healers are very skilled.

What concerns me is the gap. We might attempt Hagara this week, and will probably get her down with a few wipes, which I don't mind.

What I do mind is that Zon'ozz and Warmaster could potentially become hundreds of wipes because our raid composition is fairly weak. We're missing some key boss debuffs that the fights have been tuned to take into account.

I don't mind wiping, but at the same time, I think any guild that's capable of killing 3/8 heroic with no (or very few) wipes should be able to kill 8/8 heroic with a minimum of wipes, not be stuck on the 4th or 5th encounter having put in dozens of wipes.

My issue is with the GAP in difficulty, not necessarily with the difficulty of heroic as a whole.
90 Orc Shaman
19875
I don't have a problem with nerfs, it just feels like they're coming way too soon. Unless MoP is like, a month and a half away or something.

But it might just feel like that for us since the fight we were actually trying got buffed on 10man so a lot of our practice time has been wasted.

It just feels too soon.
85 Orc Rogue
11425
This is what Blizzard is doing to the game.

http://www.collegehumor.com/video/6208752/if-games-had-super-easy-mode
87 Worgen Druid
9905
I don't have a problem with nerfs, it just feels like they're coming way too soon. Unless MoP is like, a month and a half away or something.

But it might just feel like that for us since the fight we were actually trying got buffed on 10man so a lot of our practice time has been wasted.

It just feels too soon.


It might be too soon for the first couple of bosses, but not for the ones after that.

The difficulty ramp is killer. All you have to do to see what I mean is look here:

from wowprogress.com


Encounters
Morchok: 42646 (96.83%)
Warlord Zon'ozz: 39101 (88.79%)
Yor'sahj the Unsleeping: 40873 (92.81%)
Hagara the Stormbinder: 40253 (91.40%)
Ultraxion: 34653 (78.69%)
Warmaster Blackhorn: 29327 (66.59%)
Spine of Deathwing: 26561 (60.31%)
Madness of Deathwing: 20397 (46.31%)
H: Morchok: 14835 (33.69%)
H: Warlord Zon'ozz: 2860 (6.49%)
H: Yor'sahj the Unsleeping: 5766 (13.09%)
H: Hagara the Stormbinder: 2668 (6.06%)
H: Ultraxion: 2965 (6.73%)
H: Warmaster Blackhorn: 865 (1.96%)
H: Spine of Deathwing: 181 (0.41%)
H: Madness of Deathwing: 91 (0.21%)

That's the percentages of players who enter normal then heroic mode that down the bosses, covering normal and heroic.

Run those numbers and look at the difficulty scale. It's way, way WAY to steep.
Edited by Dyná on 1/23/2012 3:09 PM PST
100 Tauren Paladin
4755
Sadly.... smack you are correct.... i played as soon as BC came out and reached lvl 70 and quit a few months later... I come back to WoW new acct new character etc etc. and WoW isnt what i remembered it to be... WoW now is a carebear version of what it use to be sad... no more shouting in org waiting to assemble a group for RFC - WC - Black Rock Caverns etc. it in my opinion has cut the sense of community out of the game which for alot of people is what MMORPG's is all about
85 Human Rogue
10475
@Dyna.

You are taking everything at face value and not actually analyzing your "data"

Keep in mind, that people have alts. I know I myself have 5 Alts all which I've CLEARED Dragon Soul on Normal. So I have 6 characters that have cleared Dragon Soul, not to mention 10-20 of my guild mates also have 5-7 alts who also clear DS weekly.

The only way to get definitive stats is to run internal testing, which YOU don't have access too, the real drop off is not nearly as bad as you think.

The problem isn't the Hard Modes being too hard, it's player's being too LAZY to put in the TIME and EFFORT to complete a task.

You say you raid HMs and are serious about them, If you were serious and really wanted to push progression as much as you're preaching here, You wouldn't be trained in Herbalism, and you would most definitely be spec'd and glyph'd correctly.

You're obviously in the very vast majority of casual players who EXPECT to be handed nerfs when you run into an encounter that you refuse to learn. Firelands got nerf'd 20% and Heroic Rag doesn't gyser in p4 anymore you've still YET to kill it, and are screaming you can't get to and kill Heroic Deathwing.

This screams to me, "I want the best gear in game with very little effort on my part".

Are you really being serious right now ?
Edited by Teqnic on 1/23/2012 3:21 PM PST
85 Orc Rogue
11425
Regular DS isn't even very hard. Pugs on my server clear it constantly. While I'm guessing asking people to play the game better is not an option, Heroic Mode is supposed to be difficult.

Is that all of the population, or just the "raiding" population?

Just because you entered DS once in some thrown together group with people who have zero clue what they're doing, doesn't mean you should be able to kill everything.
85 Orc Shaman
12530
I don't have a problem with nerfs, it just feels like they're coming way too soon. Unless MoP is like, a month and a half away or something.

But it might just feel like that for us since the fight we were actually trying got buffed on 10man so a lot of our practice time has been wasted.

It just feels too soon.


It might be too soon for the first couple of bosses, but not for the ones after that.

The difficulty ramp is killer. All you have to do to see what I mean is look here:

from wowprogress.com


Encounters
Morchok: 42646 (96.83%)
Warlord Zon'ozz: 39101 (88.79%)
Yor'sahj the Unsleeping: 40873 (92.81%)
Hagara the Stormbinder: 40253 (91.40%)
Ultraxion: 34653 (78.69%)
Warmaster Blackhorn: 29327 (66.59%)
Spine of Deathwing: 26561 (60.31%)
Madness of Deathwing: 20397 (46.31%)
H: Morchok: 14835 (33.69%)
H: Warlord Zon'ozz: 2860 (6.49%)
H: Yor'sahj the Unsleeping: 5766 (13.09%)
H: Hagara the Stormbinder: 2668 (6.06%)
H: Ultraxion: 2965 (6.73%)
H: Warmaster Blackhorn: 865 (1.96%)
H: Spine of Deathwing: 181 (0.41%)
H: Madness of Deathwing: 91 (0.21%)

That's the percentages of players who enter normal then heroic mode that down the bosses, covering normal and heroic.

Run those numbers and look at the difficulty scale. It's way, way WAY to steep.


It could also mean that H Morchok is too easy.
100 Tauren Druid
21795
01/23/2012 03:21 PMPosted by Trogdoroth
It could also mean that H Morchok is too easy


As well as dragonsoul normal is too easy without a decent ramp up difficultywise.

Which to be perfectly honest is true... DS normal is pretty simple when all is said and done.
85 Orc Rogue
11425
01/23/2012 02:57 PMPosted by Dyná
I don't mind wiping, but at the same time, I think any guild that's capable of killing 3/8 heroic with no (or very few) wipes should be able to kill 8/8 heroic with a minimum of wipes, not be stuck on the 4th or 5th encounter having put in dozens of wipes.


ROFL. You can't be serious.

"We can clear the easier Heroic bosses with no trouble, but the later bosses are HARD. I find this unreasonable, and all the bosses should be as easy as Morchok. WUT DO BLIZZ?"
Edited by Blacksad on 1/23/2012 3:30 PM PST
90 Human Warrior
16790
01/23/2012 03:23 PMPosted by Waraila
Which to be perfectly honest is true... DS normal is pretty simple when all is said and done.


DS is probably the easiest Normal Mode tier ever released, which is an oddity, considering it released with LFR. Even ICC/ToC Normal was a lot harder than this.
100 Night Elf Priest
6890
It seems this buff strategy makes sense if the 3 levels are respected, in the following context:

- LFR is for the masses, allowing everyone to see the content, and thus should be fairly doable.
- Normal is for most guilds, including casuals, and thus a BUFF over time makes sense
- Heroic is for the most committed and skilled guilds. NO BUFF IS NECESSARY.

Thus, if a wall does exist, help the Normal mode to allow progression, but ON LY for the Normal.

And if the wall for the super-committed persists, you can consider changes in the FUTURE. For example, give the 5% buff to Normal, and two months later when you go to 10% on normal, do 5% on Heroic.

The point is, THERE ARE THREE LEVELS FOR A REASON.
90 Blood Elf Priest
0
The difficulty ramp is killer. All you have to do to see what I mean is look here:

from wowprogress.com



Or lack thereof. The solution to terrible balancing/difficulty isn't to say "oh well, let's just nerf the crap out of it, fixt".



The fight difficulty is a mess in DS, and it being an 8 boss teir, and a linear 8 boss teir, is just bad design.
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