Nerfs.

85 Troll Mage
12325
Knowing that:

1. Players who raid heroic content consistently overestimate the skill of players who do not.
2. Paying customers should be able to see endgame content while it's still somewhat relevant.

LFR solves both of those problems. Anyone who can stay online long enough for their queue to pop can now go 8/8 and get loot, even if they make no attempt to actually play the game the way you and I understand it. I have no problem with this. LFR is the sandbox for things like that.

The "rest of us" are still crawling all over each other on their way to heroic clears (though I hear you need a whole raid group to show up in order to pass 1/8, but that's getting ahead of myself). We did the same thing in 3.x, and we're quite used to the content being nerfed to some extent a few weeks after the world firsts.

When LFR dropped, we (the heroic raiding public) saw a reason to believe the practice of nerfing endgame content would be delayed or done away with entirely because that's what would make us most happy, so our optimism shaped our perceptions. Now they've broken it to us that our perception is wrong. To that I say: Tough. Nobody promised us that LFR would mean an end to the endgame nerfs that have affected every tier of content in recent memory. Don't cry over losing something you never had.

01/18/2012 06:47 PMPosted by Alris
IT'S OPTIONAL, Y U NO READ THE DAMN POST!?


Its optional, with zero achievements, or rewards for turning it off.


Rational solution spotted.
Edited by Baarbakyuud on 1/18/2012 6:49 PM PST
90 Draenei Warrior
14070
http://b.static.memegenerator.net/cache/instances/400x/12/13061/13375046.jpg

*cough*

Ehh... kinda disappointed but glad I got my normal Madness kill. Honestly though, most of the normal mode content doesn't really need a nerf. Well, the first half doesn't.
-----
Attack tables, CTC, diminishing returns and you!
http://us.battle.net/wow/en/forum/topic/2489160859
85 Night Elf Death Knight
2095
To all the guys QQ'ing about nerfs: You can turn it off. You don't HAVE to play with nerfs. If you had THAT much of a conflict with it, then you wouldn't be using it to get Server first, now would ya? Hmm, Tekton?
90 Orc Hunter
18075
01/18/2012 06:45 PMPosted by Mauden
IT'S OPTIONAL, Y U NO READ THE DAMN POST!?


Y U NO UNDERSTAND "OPTIONAL" DOES NOT MATTER IN HARD MODE RANKINGS AND RACES. IF ONE GUILD USES THE BUFF, ALL OTHERS WHO CARE ABOUT THEIR RANKINGS MUST ALSO.
Edited by Bemis on 1/18/2012 6:49 PM PST
90 Night Elf Druid
7240
01/18/2012 06:43 PMPosted by Tekton
To everyone who is saying "Oh just turn it off guys herp a derp", that isn't really an option. Our server hasn't killed HM Deathwing, and so there's still a race, if you would, going on. Now, you can turn off the buff and feel cool for doing 7/8 without it, or you can leave it on and get server first 8/8 with it. What would you pick?
Does it really matter? If you have a huge ego, then turn it off and play through it on the hardest possible difficulty. If you just want to get through for the fun of it, then leave it on.

Why does the game have to be hard if you want to raid? The egotism of some players in this community is astounding. The game is hard if you want it to be hard. The game is easy if you want it to be easy. Let it be.
85 Blood Elf Priest
7430
Blizzard is just calling its player base bad... and its player base is happy with that... good to see people like being bad and having bad catered to them.
85 Troll Druid
3110
01/18/2012 06:46 PMPosted by Broly
Ridiculous. This is already some of easiest content I have seen. I enjoyed T11 content, and pre-nerf FL was decent. DS felt nerfed the second I stepped into that raid. Why are we nerfing nerfed content? Also, don't the casuals have LFR now? What is the point of this stacking buff nonsense? When can we go back to BC and let bads be bads?


Indeed, this is easy content. It's the people that complain that the Looking for Raid is too easy, and jumping straight into Normals and Hardmodes.

If anything, Blizzard should nerf Looking for Raid, instead of affecting Normal and Heroic difficulties so that way people can get a smaller jump into Progression.
90 Tauren Druid
10160
01/18/2012 06:47 PMPosted by Alris
IT'S OPTIONAL, Y U NO READ THE DAMN POST!?


Its optional, with zero achievements, or rewards for turning it off.


The point of raiding (and pretty much everything else in a videogame) should be for your enjoyment. If you are doing it solely for achievments / pixels, then you're doing it wrong.
85 Human Rogue
14390
01/18/2012 06:47 PMPosted by Aeldain
To everyone who is saying "Oh just turn it off guys herp a derp", that isn't really an option. Our server hasn't killed HM Deathwing, and so there's still a race, if you would, going on. Now, you can turn off the buff and feel cool for doing 7/8 without it, or you can leave it on and get server first 8/8 with it. What would you pick?




A face huh? *Facepalm* Seems to me your letting your ego get in the way. Yes people will choose the path of least resistance, however if you're going to complain to Blizzard that your ego is being hurt with this change. Again the same happened with ICC. I don't think you people will ever learn.


Your egos seem more important then having fun.

My guild wont get server first Deathwing. I'm not saying I'm angry because I might not be the best on my server now. Also, it isn't fun to kill dumbed down nerfed to the ground content. I posted earlier that I killed HM LK with 30% buff and it wasn't fun. I went and tried to do it without the buff, and it was a challenge, and that was fun.
90 Human Warrior
13525
01/18/2012 06:50 PMPosted by Tekton




A face huh? *Facepalm* Seems to me your letting your ego get in the way. Yes people will choose the path of least resistance, however if you're going to complain to Blizzard that your ego is being hurt with this change. Again the same happened with ICC. I don't think you people will ever learn.


Your egos seem more important then having fun.

My guild wont get server first Deathwing. I'm not saying I'm angry because I might not be the best on my server now. Also, it isn't fun to kill dumbed down nerfed to the ground content. I posted earlier that I killed HM LK with 30% buff and it wasn't fun. I went and tried to do it without the buff, and it was a challenge, and that was fun.



Then when the time comes go do that? Again I see a lot of Egos being rended here in this thread.
85 Blood Elf Mage
4430
Who here is 8/8 Heroic? Please shut up if you aren't. Turn the buff off if you really "want the challenge"

01/18/2012 06:51 PMPosted by Maehara
The nerf is optional, while at the same time I have to agree that this 'nerf' is too soon in to content that is pretty well being seen as lasting us nearly a year while we wait for MoP and per-expansion patches.


If anything the nerf is right on time. If it goes up to 30%, and with constant evidence, more and more proving that the xpac will be within the next 5-7 months..I don't see them dragging this out for a year.
Edited by Sheepshifter on 1/18/2012 6:52 PM PST
86 Blood Elf Paladin
2575
01/18/2012 06:49 PMPosted by Korlek


Its optional, with zero achievements, or rewards for turning it off.


The point of raiding (and pretty much everything else in a videogame) should be for your enjoyment. If you are doing it solely for achievments / pixels, then you're doing it wrong.


The point of raiding, is to work together to defeat a challenge with friends. If for no reward, or achievement you make it harder on the raid. Your doing it wrong.
85 Night Elf Hunter
5090

My guild wont get server first Deathwing. I'm not saying I'm angry because I might not be the best on my server now. Also, it isn't fun to kill dumbed down nerfed to the ground content. I posted earlier that I killed HM LK with 30% buff and it wasn't fun. I went and tried to do it without the buff, and it was a challenge, and that was fun.



Then when the time comes go do that? Again I see a lot of Egos being rended here in this thread.


They want a virtual pat on the back for doing it without the buff so they can say that their time invested is better than someone elses.

:|
90 Orc Hunter
18075
I think another contributing factor to some people's anger is that it really feels much too soon for these nerfs. BUT, this could also mean that MoP is not very far off. Which I hope is the case. Because if these nerfs are happening in a couple of weeks, and we still have 6+ months of this...no bueno.
Community Manager
For everyone reading, this is in reference to: http://us.battle.net/wow/en/blog/4326384/Dragon_Soul_Difficulty_Changes-1_18_2012#blog

Believe it or not there are actually guilds and raiding groups that are attempting to progress through Normal and Heroic raids, but are hitting a wall, and have been hitting a wall. We have actual statistical data we base our changes on, we know exactly how many people are clearing these raids each week, we know exactly how many people are able to down just a few bosses, and how many were only able to down a few bosses every week for weeks on end and then stopped raiding altogether.

The issue we're constantly trying to combat is the one where people feel like they're just out of options. One way this is an issue is the content is too easy, they blasted through it, have everything they could possibly want, and have nothing else to do. Ideally that's a small subset of very hardcore players. For everyone else it's a feeling of just being stuck with no possible way to progress. Very few players are willing to suit up, buff up, do all the necessary requirements to raid, jump in, and then do no better than they did last week for hours and hours, only to return next week and do the same.

If a guild doesn't want the help, they're free to opt out of the buff. For those that do it's an approximate 5% change, which is pretty minor, and we expect it to be about a month before we raise it another 5%. This first change will absolutely help the guilds that are just barely sc@%#!*# by, or just need a tiny bump to cross the next hurdle, but it's just not logical to exclaim that someone will roll into Raid Finder, grab a couple items, then be looting Heroic Deathwing's corpse the next night.

We feel the content has been out for quite a while now, that most people who have progressed and downed Deathwing on Heroic have done so, they've had sufficient time to celebrate in their accomplishments, and these very small progressive alterations will only help guilds that are already doing well in the raid get over some hurdles they may be facing.
Edited by Bashiok on 1/18/2012 6:53 PM PST
85 Troll Druid
3110
I'm quite laughing at the people saying "Turn the Buff Off".

You don't understand the point and matter of myself, and the other people are complaining about.
90 Pandaren Warrior
16785
Okay, Mr. Casual champion defending the LFR and the current end of the expac system that's in place, here. Yea, that's normally the stance I take.

Everything is ni-perfect now, this is a mistake. There is no reason to reduce the challenge of the current raids only 8-10 weeks into the patch. Especially when there was the holliday break involved and several guilds who would normally have had 2 more weeks to raid, didn't.

I can see a couple/three months prior to MoPs release to prep everyone and get that last bit of gear during the "lame-duck" season, but this is too soon.



I'm siding with the hard core and elitist players on this one, the nerfs are far too soon and will be far too drastic if what has been data mined holds true.
Edited by Dorrell on 1/18/2012 6:53 PM PST
85 Night Elf Druid
12000
This buff (or nerf, however you see it) is exactly like the one in ICC. And by the OP in this thread, people are going to act just like they did in ICC.

"Blizz why you make content so EZ with this buff? HERP DERP"

"You do know you can turn the buff off and make it harder right?"

"But I wants to down content. HERP DERP."
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