Nerfs.

11 Undead Warlock
0


01/18/2012 06:47 PMPosted by Tekton
Kinda disappointed that I didn't get to clear at least a Heroic boss (yet) before the debuff.

This.
I killed HM LK 10 with the 30% buff. It wasn't really cool.
People killed HM LK without the buff. That was amazing.
This isn't doing hardly any good for anybody. LOLchok was pretty easy, and then the HM's were what they needed to be. Hard. This is going to make there be an lol get 10 people from your server w/iLvL346 difficulty, an LFR difficulty, and a barely gotta do mechanics difficulty.


Your Ignorance Really... Really... Hurts..

NOT A SINGLE GUILD KILL HM LK 0%. IN CURRENT CONTENT.

NOT ONE.

The first time he was dropped without a buff, was when the buff was already at 30% and paragon had gear up the...


Really man.

Guys, its 5%....

its not gonna make or break anything.

Its not gonna turn an 8/8 normal guild into an 8/8 hm.

its not gonna turn a 5/8 pug, into an 8/8 clear.

Its really simple people. It helps, Its optional, get over special snowflake syndrome.
85 Troll Druid
3110
Yes, I agree Bashiok. But the people that ARE jumping from LFR to Normals are the majority of those complaining. You should ultimately apply an increase of difficulty to the Looking for Raid, so that people aren't making such a huge, giant leap into the fallacy of the Normal difficulties that are present.
100 Human Warlock
10410
I see no problem with the normal DS version receiving the Buff. However the heroic version should stay "Heroic". No buffs, nada nill and zip.

LFR is great. (Casual) As someone who does not have the time to raid at the moment, getting to technically raid every week is great for me. It will also allow me to be geared enough to re-join a raiding guild when my time free's up again.

Normal: Should only be completed by competent groups. Mostly puggable, but at least coordinated, correctly classed and geared groups.

Heroic: Hardcore only, near impossible except for those groups prepared to fully min/max and push. Ultimate E-peen and shiny gear rewarded for those who are dedicated and skilled enough to achieve it.
85 Gnome Mage
10660
01/18/2012 06:51 PMPosted by Sheepshifter
Who here is 8/8 Heroic? Please shut up if you aren't. Turn the buff off if you really "want the challenge"


Nine guilds in the US have 8/8, but Mists of Pandaria is still months away. Frankly, if only 100 guilds in the US got 8/8 heroic I would say that's fair. You aren't entitled to beating a harder difficulty. This is pandering to the lowest common denominator.
90 Blood Elf Death Knight
0
For everyone reading, this is in reference to: http://us.battle.net/wow/en/blog/4326384/Dragon_Soul_Difficulty_Changes-1_18_2012#blog

Believe it or not there are actually guilds and raiding groups that are attempting to progress through Normal and Heroic raids, but are hitting a wall, and have been hitting a wall. We have actual statistical data we base our changes on, we know exactly how many people are clearing these raids each week, we know exactly how many people are able to down just a few bosses, and how many were only able to down a few bosses every week for weeks on end and then stopped raiding altogether.

The issue we're constantly trying to combat is the one where people feel like they're just out of options. One way this is an issue is the content is too easy, they blasted through it, have everything they could possibly want, and have nothing else to do. Ideally that's a small subset of very hardcore players. For everyone else it's a feeling of just being stuck with no possible way to progress. Very few players are willing to suit up, buff up, do all the necessary requirements to raid, jump in, and then do no better than they did last week for hours and hours, only to return next week and do the same.

If a guild doesn't want the help, they're free to opt out of the buff. For those that do it's an approximate 5% change, which is pretty minor, and we expect it to be about a month before we raise it another 5%. This first change will absolutely help the guilds that are just barely sc@%#!*# by, or just need a tiny bump to cross the next hurdle, but it's just not logical to exclaim that someone will roll into Raid Finder, grab a couple items, then be looting Heroic Deathwing's corpse the next night.

We feel the content has been out for quite a while now, that most people who have progressed and downed Deathwing on Heroic have done so, they've had sufficient time to celebrate in their accomplishments, and these very small progressive alterations will only help guilds that are already doing well in the raid get over some hurdles they may be facing.


First; LOL it censored you there...

Second; well said.
100 Troll Priest
14405
For everyone reading, this is in reference to: http://us.battle.net/wow/en/blog/4326384/Dragon_Soul_Difficulty_Changes-1_18_2012#blog

Believe it or not there are actually guilds and raiding groups that are attempting to progress through Normal and Heroic raids, but are hitting a wall, and have been hitting a wall. We have actual statistical data we base our changes on, we know exactly how many people are clearing these raids each week, we know exactly how many people are able to down just a few bosses, and how many were only able to down a few bosses every week for weeks on end and then stopped raiding altogether.

The issue we're constantly trying to combat is the one where people feel like they're just out of options. One way this is an issue is the content is too easy, they blasted through it, have everything they could possibly want, and have nothing else to do. Ideally that's a small subset of very hardcore players. For everyone else it's a feeling of just being stuck with no possible way to progress. Very few players are willing to suit up, buff up, do all the necessary requirements to raid, jump in, and then do no better than they did last week for hours and hours, only to return next week and do the same.

If a guild doesn't want the help, they're free to opt out of the buff. For those that do it's an approximate 5% change, which is pretty minor, and we expect it to be about a month before we raise it another 5%. This first change will absolutely help the guilds that are just barely sc@%#!*# by, or just need a tiny bump to cross the next hurdle, but it's just not logical to exclaim that someone will roll into Raid Finder, grab a couple items, then be looting Heroic Deathwing's corpse the next night.

We feel the content has been out for quite a while now, that most people who have progressed and downed Deathwing on Heroic have done so, they've had sufficient time to celebrate in their accomplishments, and these very small progressive alterations will only help guilds that are already doing well in the raid get over some hurdles they may be facing.




The ability to "choose" to turn off a buff, but not giving incentive to do so, is the same as not giving the option to begin with. Haven't you learned this from ICC? It's not the first time you've taken this route in terms of nerfs.
it doesn't matter what you say to the naysayers. They are gonna complain about it regardless of anything. People need to stop worrying about everyone elses "tainted" achievement and worry about themselves and the satisfaction of knowing that they did it the "hard way".
85 Blood Elf Mage
4430
Most of the playerbase is casual, face it or not, yes blizzard likes to cater to as many people as possible but the majority are wiping to the same boss week after week after week. And Blizzard has to please the majority, because most of the people QQing here were probably QQing about it in firelands, and even ICC. This happened with ICC, the same overdramatic AMG NERF..And people got over it in a week.
90 Undead Warrior
6815
http://www.mmo-champion.com/content/2623-Dragon-Soul-Difficulty-Changes-Curse-Weekly-Roundup

There. Quite sad.

It gives you the option to complete it unnerfed.

The spell can also be disabled by talking to Lord Afrasastrasz at the beginning of Dragon Soul, if a raid wishes to attempt the encounters without the aid of the Dragon Aspects.
85 Night Elf Hunter
5090
01/18/2012 06:55 PMPosted by Meia
The ability to "choose" to turn off a buff, but not giving incentive to do so, is the same as not giving the option to begin with. Haven't you learned this from ICC? It's not the first time you've taken this route in terms of nerfs.


The incentive is personal gratification that you can do harder content when it's current, and removing the buff allows you to do that.

Isn't that enough?
Edited by Sylphic on 1/18/2012 6:57 PM PST
80 Blood Elf Hunter
0
The issue we're constantly trying to combat is the one where people feel like they're just out of options. One way this is an issue is the content is too easy, they blasted through it, have everything they could possibly want, and have nothing else to do. Ideally that's a small subset of very hardcore players. For everyone else it's a feeling of just being stuck with no possible way to progress. Very few players are willing to suit up, buff up, do all the necessary requirements to raid, jump in, and then do no better than they did last week for hours and hours, only to return next week and do the same.


No one is EVER out of options when content is difficult. Get better. voila, you killed the boss.

You got yourself "stuck" you can get yourself out of it.
100 Night Elf Druid
8150
The ability to "choose" to turn off a buff, but not giving incentive to do so, is the same as not giving the option to begin with. Haven't you learned this from ICC? It's not the first time you've taken this route in terms of nerfs.
Why does everything have to have carrot-on-a-stick incentives attached to it? Do the heroic mode without the 5% nerf because you WANT to.
85 Goblin Rogue
2050
With Raid Finder in place to allow people to see the content, I see little reason to touch organized raiding environments. It just seems silly to me. The content can be seen for those who are in it just to see the content. The rest of us who want to be legitimately challenged, we unfortunately see our raids become progressively easier over time.

Normal mode nerfs? Though I don't agree with them, I could tolerate them. I find no true reason to ever touch heroic mode, unless it has been proven to be mathematically impossible. Maybe a few tweaks so that more than one guild in the entire world could kill a boss, but beyond that there is nothing wrong with insanely difficult content, especially when there are easier methods to see the exact same story and setting [LFR/Normal].

Though I am fully aware that this is optional, it is difficult to convince an entire raid to agree with the change. I will be fighting to turn it off on a weekly basis. I can promise you each time I bring it up, at least one person in my raid will argue against it and, worst case scenario, threaten to leave the raid (or even the guild). We are very happy raiding the content as-is. I would also like to mention that my guild is made primarily of casual players, almost all of which had not raided anything beyond LFR and BH this entire expansion until Dragon Soul, and we went 5/8 first night.

With Mists of Pandaria not going to be released in the foreseeable future (we barely even have any information on it!) it is definitely way too early to see the announcement of nerfs to what is the only content that will last us until the expansion's launch. Nerfs should come just around the same time the Beta comes out at the earliest, preferably closer toward the expansion's release, if they come out at all!

I am extremely disappointed.

[Made this post before I got to see Bashiok's statement. With the speed this thread is growing, I moved my continuation to a separate reply. Apologies if this was not the ideal way to respond.]
Edited by Splodey on 1/18/2012 7:16 PM PST
85 Troll Druid
3110
Okay Cletas, you're one of those LFR Champions that Dorrell is mentioning about.

You have a hard time understanding the principle of this post.
85 Blood Elf Priest
0
For everyone reading, this is in reference to: http://us.battle.net/wow/en/blog/4326384/Dragon_Soul_Difficulty_Changes-1_18_2012#blog

Believe it or not there are actually guilds and raiding groups that are attempting to progress through Normal and Heroic raids, but are hitting a wall, and have been hitting a wall. We have actual statistical data we base our changes on, we know exactly how many people are clearing these raids each week, we know exactly how many people are able to down just a few bosses, and how many were only able to down a few bosses every week for weeks on end and then stopped raiding altogether.

The issue we're constantly trying to combat is the one where people feel like they're just out of options. One way this is an issue is the content is too easy, they blasted through it, have everything they could possibly want, and have nothing else to do. Ideally that's a small subset of very hardcore players. For everyone else it's a feeling of just being stuck with no possible way to progress. Very few players are willing to suit up, buff up, do all the necessary requirements to raid, jump in, and then do no better than they did last week for hours and hours, only to return next week and do the same.

If a guild doesn't want the help, they're free to opt out of the buff. For those that do it's an approximate 5% change, which is pretty minor, and we expect it to be about a month before we raise it another 5%. This first change will absolutely help the guilds that are just barely sc@%#!*# by, or just need a tiny bump to cross the next hurdle, but it's just not logical to exclaim that someone will roll into Raid Finder, grab a couple items, then be looting Heroic Deathwing's corpse the next night.

We feel the content has been out for quite a while now, that most people who have progressed and downed Deathwing on Heroic have done so, they've had sufficient time to celebrate in their accomplishments, and these very small progressive alterations will only help guilds that are already doing well in the raid get over some hurdles they may be facing.


Keep calling the majority of players bad....

How do you expect people to get better if there is nothing to get better with?

It's like playing starcraft against the computer and calling yourself the best in the world when you win without losing 1 unit... to only find that when you log on to battle.net and PVP you get destroyed time and time again.

What you are basically doing is telling people to go back to playing the comp, because its easier, and they'll feel good..

You are setting gamers up to fail and become worse.. you'll never be able to raise the bar, because you constantly lower it. No one will get better because there is nothing to get better with. You ruined your own game and this genre forever.

These devs need to be fired fast... So sick of money ruling all... Blizzard use to be about the quality of their games, not the money.... thats why it takes you so long to release your games, remember?

I dare you to try and rebuttal that... I'm willing to bet blizzard has nothing to say because I'm right.
Edited by Shorthealed on 1/18/2012 7:00 PM PST
100 Dwarf Hunter
18365
I'm quite laughing at the people saying "Turn the Buff Off".

You don't understand the point and matter of myself, and the other people are complaining about.

What's the point? That you don't want other players to experience the content like you? Why do you give a flying flip what other people do?! You can turn off the buff if you want to, you really have no reason to be complaining about this.
90 Tauren Shaman
0
01/18/2012 06:52 PMPosted by Bashiok
Believe it or not there are actually guilds and raiding groups that are attempting to progress through Normal and Heroic raids, but are hitting a wall, and have been hitting a wall.


Isn't hitting a wall a part of raiding, though? If there are no walls people will not push themselves to do better. Clearly, it's well established at this point that the content is not impossible. I would hope your team has considered the possible drawback of tearing down the walls too quickly, which will leave people bored until MoP is out.
Edited by Gorganis on 1/18/2012 6:59 PM PST
Frankly, the trolls claiming that anyone who hasn't cleared 8/8 yet is a bad player can go take a jump of a cliff. And then re-evaluate their own lives. I welcome this buff.
Edited by Pensive on 1/18/2012 6:59 PM PST
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