Nerfs.

85 Blood Elf Mage
6190
01/18/2012 07:08 PMPosted by Bashiok

If they don't have to be like us, why do they have to have nerfs to get to our position in HM Raiding?


Because they want to and they pay the same amount for the game? I don't know, man. How is it good for the game to have 1% of players parading around for months and months and a 99% sitting around with nothing to do because they're sick and tired of wiping?

Your solution is "Well then they should get better or quit." and that's just not reasonable for a video game comprised of millions of people looking to just have some fun. It's still a computer game.



+123456789...9000!
MVP - World of Warcraft
85 Blood Elf Paladin
9730
01/18/2012 07:08 PMPosted by Bashiok
Your solution is "Well then they should get better or quit." and that's just not reasonable for a video game comprised of millions of people looking to just have some fun. It's still a computer game.


I don't think that saying 'they should get better or quit' is a reasonable solution at any point at all.

I am kind of confused though. We have LFR for DS, we have Normal, and we have Heroic. At what point do you look at a situation and say "Alright, this needs a nerf" when there's already a lower difficulty available?

If there's a easy, normal, and hard difficulty, why tweak normal until it becomes as easy as the easy mode? With the introduction of LFR, I can not say I understand (or agree until I do understand) why this buff is necessary.

The learning curve between LFR and Normal is not too large, in my opinion. You guys do a good job tuning the difficulty from one setting to another.
________________________________________________
Healing Forum MVP
Edited by Practical on 1/18/2012 7:15 PM PST
90 Blood Elf Priest
12170
01/18/2012 07:10 PMPosted by Broly

Then you are raiding for the wrong wrong reason.


Oh, well my bad. Tell me why I should be raiding then since you know everything about me and my friends.

For the enjoyment of downing bosses.

The social interaction with friends.

If purples are why you raid, then of course you won't care about nerfs.
90 Blood Elf Priest
0



Well said Bashiok.

I agree 100 % with Blizzard's stance on this. I mean, I am raid leader of core 1 in my guild and I know how difficult it is to progress through heroic (As I haven't downed HMorchok yet) due to the insane damage done by stomp... and sometimes, you won't have two dps soakers who are like tanks... I am definitely NOT going to kick one of my guildie to get another dps-like tank.. out of the question...I would keep progressing with the same composition because they were the people I Raided with since day 1 - no matter how I look at it... so, I thank you and blizzard for this.
:)


You may not be interested in heroic raiding, then. Which is why you have normal/LFR, tuned to your difficulty (sounds like normal is your cup of tea). You've seen the content and gotten the shiny loots.

Heroic is... an 'option'. And not one that's designed for everyone.
18 Undead Warlock
0
01/18/2012 07:08 PMPosted by Bashiok

If they don't have to be like us, why do they have to have nerfs to get to our position in HM Raiding?


Because they want to and they pay the same amount for the game? I don't know, man. How is it good for the game to have 1% of players parading around for months and months and a 99% sitting around with nothing to do because they're sick and tired of wiping?

Your solution is "Well then they should get better or quit." and that's just not reasonable for a video game comprised of millions of people looking to just have some fun. It's still a computer game.


Then just hand everyone full 410 ilevel sets and the most prestigious titles when they log in if it's all about equal pay = equal reward. It's this type of design mentality that has had the game's player base fading by the day since the start of the casual movement.
85 Gnome Rogue
3115
Because they want to and they pay the same amount for the game? I don't know, man. How is it good for the game to have 1% of players parading around for months and months and a 99% sitting around with nothing to do because they're sick and tired of wiping?

Your solution is "Well then they should get better or quit." and that's just not reasonable for a video game comprised of millions of people looking to just have some fun. It's still a computer game.


you are so awesome :D
90 Human Warrior
13525


Then you are raiding for the wrong wrong reason.


Oh, well my bad. Tell me why I should be raiding then since you know everything about me and my friends.



I'm going to go and say everyone has a different view on *challenging things*. What you may find difficult others may find easy.


Then just hand everyone full 410 ilevel sets and the most prestigious titles when they log in if it's all about equal pay = equal reward. It's this type of design mentality that has had the game's player base fading by the day since the start of the casual movement.


Stop implying being casual is bad. JUST STOP


P.S. I play like everyday, just saying before you call me casual.
Edited by Aeldain on 1/18/2012 7:15 PM PST
85 Night Elf Hunter
5090
I don't think that saying 'they should get better or quit' is a reasonable solution at any point at all.

I am kind of confused though. We have LFR for DS, we have Normal, and we have Heroic. At what point do you look at a situation and say "Alright, this needs a nerf" when there's already a lower difficulty available?

If there's a easy, normal, and hard difficulty, why tweak normal until it becomes as easy as the easy mode?
________________________________________________
Healing Forum MVP


Shouldn't it be obvious?

Gear. People play WoW for gear. It's not just about progression 24/7 :P
11 Undead Warlock
0
Somebody said nobody did Heroic Lich King at 0%, you might want to check because Paragon did.. took them very long but they did.

Plus nobody is ever going to turn off the buff, be serious.

I am a bit surprised, since I thought the LFR difficulty was to allow people to see the content and it would justify not having nerfs. I already cleared DS normal mode on 6 alts.. why does it even need nerfs?

I can understand for heroic spine, but geez.. give us some time to have a challenge, not every guild raid 16 hours a week and more, I do 8, we are just out of the holidays finally starting to raid for real, just got Ultraxion hard, making it 3/8 HM, was hopefully going to get at 6/8 sooner or later and see spine on it's original difficulty which will most likely never happen since we only have one raid lockout left before you apply this buff.

It's a bit disappointing to be honest. You shouldn't have accounted the holidays as "time people had to see the content".. most people barely started DS for real.


I said it.... and I said Paragon killed him...

Obviously you lack the ability to read.


Noone killed LK HM @0% in current content...

That is true.

It took until the buff was @ 30% and they farmed the hell out off ICC, and walked in with full gear to kill him at 0%.

Really.

Thats exactly what I said, and that is what went down.
90 Blood Elf Priest
12170
01/18/2012 07:11 PMPosted by Bemis
Ok, this explains the normal nerfs...why nerf hard modes?

^^That
95 Night Elf Druid
7790
01/18/2012 07:12 PMPosted by Glottis
Then just hand everyone full 410 ilevel sets and the most prestigious titles when they log in if it's all about equal pay = equal reward. It's this type of design mentality that has had the game's player base fading by the day since the start of the casual movement.
A 5% nerf = free gear? Whaaaa? Exaggerate much?
90 Human Warrior
10750
Lets just get rid of achievement points, mounts, titles, and heroic modes then. [/b]Honestly, all but the latter are used for "showing off". Sure half of it is knowing you did it, but the other half is being recognized for it. I'm sorry if that makes me sound like an egotistical maniac but it's the truth.

Okay.
I'm cool with that.
I never liked the achievement system, titles get annoying so I usually end up turning them off and I an't bring myself to seriously attempt Heroic Modes post-Lich King.

Mounts, peh. There used to be very few mounts to show off what you'd done, they were pretty much just grind away until you get a drop etc.
100 Draenei Mage
10715


This first change will absolutely help the guilds that are just barely sc@%#!*# by, or just need a tiny bump to cross the next hurdle, but it's just not logical to exclaim that someone will roll into Raid Finder, grab a couple items, then be looting Heroic Deathwing's corpse the next night.


Today is the day I learned that Blizzard Employees will actually be chat filtered on the forums because the filter took scraapping (I added an extra a and p) and filtered it.
85 Gnome Mage
10660
01/18/2012 07:08 PMPosted by Bashiok

If they don't have to be like us, why do they have to have nerfs to get to our position in HM Raiding?


Because they want to and they pay the same amount for the game? I don't know, man. How is it good for the game to have 1% of players parading around for months and months and a 99% sitting around with nothing to do because they're sick and tired of wiping?

Your solution is "Well then they should get better or quit." and that's just not reasonable for a video game comprised of millions of people looking to just have some fun. It's still a computer game.


Paying for the game doesn't entitle you to beating it. You don't get to see the final cut scene to Zelda just because you bought the game. You have to actually play it. You guys introduced easy mode already with raid finder. You have no excuse anymore. None.

There is literally nothing you can say to justify this move.
85 Human Paladin
8635
Because they want to and they pay the same amount for the game? I don't know, man. How is it good for the game to have 1% of players parading around for months and months and a 99% sitting around with nothing to do because they're sick and tired of wiping for months?

Your solution is "Well then they should get better or quit." and that's just not reasonable for a video game comprised of millions of people looking to just have some fun. It's still a computer game.


Just because they pay the same amount doesn't mean they deserve to kill the boss unless they DESERVE TO KILL THE BOSS. I'm fine with nerfing normals. Nerf them to the ground so everyone gets to play. But you separated normals and heroics AND LFR for a reason. That reason is that it appeals to different demographics in your game of millions.

Okay fine, here's a compromise. Give us separate achievements for clearing the bosses without the nerf turned on. That way the date on my kill being the same as the guy who used the nerf won't matter cause I have a separate achievement.
85 Blood Elf Mage
6190
01/18/2012 07:12 PMPosted by Practical
Your solution is "Well then they should get better or quit." and that's just not reasonable for a video game comprised of millions of people looking to just have some fun. It's still a computer game.


I don't think that saying 'they should get better or quit' is a reasonable solution at any point at all.

I am kind of confused though. We have LFR for DS, we have Normal, and we have Heroic. At what point do you look at a situation and say "Alright, this needs a nerf" when there's already a lower difficulty available?

If there's a easy, normal, and hard difficulty, why tweak normal until it becomes as easy as the easy mode?
________________________________________________
Healing Forum MVP


You clearly are forgetting something here.... this is not an issue of LFR vs Normal vs. Heroic.

This is an issue of 90 % of the people who have done LFR and have 390 + gear from valors who are ON NORMAL... or who are ON HEROIC are getting stuck at one boss due to a 2-3 % enrage miss...


if they keep encountering that every time... that EXACT point... then it is not their fault...


maybe it has to do with raid composition.. but are you going to KICK a guildie who has been raiding with you for 2 years to get in a pug for the END TIER RAID?

no.

so blizzard fixes this.
90 Undead Warrior
6815
Okay Cletas, you're one of those LFR Champions that Dorrell is mentioning about.

You have a hard time understanding the principle of this post.

And there it is... lol

/sigh
85 Blood Elf Paladin
7130

Your solution is "Well then they should get better or quit." and that's just not reasonable for a video game comprised of millions of people looking to just have some fun. It's still a computer game.


This is one of the best blue posts ever. I know HM raiders want a challenge, and TBH they really can turn the buff off.

On the video game part, I think blizz could add an achieve for turning the buff off. As I see it now, any guild that completes HM after the buff (date of achievement) will be suspected of using the buff no matter what. Give them a chance to show that they are part of the group that does it the hard way. I mean if they want to beat themselves against your "wall" for 6 months, why would you not let them show that off?

BTW thanks to the CMs for all the responses here, I really don't always agree but it takes something special to post here in blue (and I am not talking about a paycheck).

Good Luck!

Lumi
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