Nerfs.

85 Blood Elf Priest
0
01/18/2012 07:08 PMPosted by Bashiok

If they don't have to be like us, why do they have to have nerfs to get to our position in HM Raiding?


Because they want to and they pay the same amount for the game? I don't know, man. How is it good for the game to have 1% of players parading around for months and months and a 99% sitting around with nothing to do because they're sick and tired of wiping?

Your solution is "Well then they should get better or quit." and that's just not reasonable for a video game comprised of millions of people looking to just have some fun. It's still a computer game.


Weird how it was okay all of vanilla/BC.. then the devs change, more people quit then are currently playing, and you think its ok?

MMOs are about dedicated and time consumption.. maybe the new devs need to take a step back, and read about what MMOs are?

In fact, lets go back and start nerfing dungeons and dragons because only people with many hours can sit down and play that?

Bad excuses are bad... these devs are bad.. plain and simple...

Wow was fine in vanilla and BC.. in fact, those 2 games made you guys the worlds most famous MMO.. but naaah, lets change that formula to cater to the bads... kk i understand.
83 Human Warrior
9265
01/18/2012 06:52 PMPosted by Alris
The point of raiding, is to work together to defeat a challenge with friends. If for no reward, or achievement you make it harder on the raid. Your doing it wrong.

Please explain that to the raiders who were doing content before the achievement system then. Last I checked, raiding was never about achievements or rewards, it was about the challenge. You have the option to turn off the nerf, if you or the raids you join choose not to, then that's your problem.
90 Blood Elf Priest
12170
01/18/2012 07:13 PMPosted by Fanahlia
Then just hand everyone full 410 ilevel sets and the most prestigious titles when they log in if it's all about equal pay = equal reward. It's this type of design mentality that has had the game's player base fading by the day since the start of the casual movement.
A 5% nerf = free gear? Whaaaa? Exaggerate much?

And the buff will get larger as time progresses.
11 Undead Warlock
0

Well said Bashiok.

I agree 100 % with Blizzard's stance on this. I mean, I am raid leader of core 1 in my guild and I know how difficult it is to progress through heroic (As I haven't downed HMorchok yet) due to the insane damage done by stomp... and sometimes, you won't have two dps soakers who are like tanks... I am definitely NOT going to kick one of my guildie to get another dps-like tank.. out of the question...I would keep progressing with the same composition because they were the people I Raided with since day 1 - no matter how I look at it... so, I thank you and blizzard for this.
:)


You may not be interested in heroic raiding, then. Which is why you have normal/LFR, tuned to your difficulty (sounds like normal is your cup of tea). You've seen the content and gotten the shiny loots.

Heroic is... an 'option'. And not one that's designed for everyone.


The nerf is an 'option'. And not one that's for everyone.


See what I did there.

See.

See.

Heroic is an option.

Nerf is an option.
100 Night Elf Druid
7960
Just because they pay the same amount doesn't mean they deserve to kill the boss unless they DESERVE TO KILL THE BOSS. I'm fine with nerfing normals. Nerf them to the ground so everyone gets to play. But you separated normals and heroics AND LFR for a reason. That reason is that it appeals to different demographics in your game of millions.

Okay fine, here's a compromise. Give us separate achievements for clearing the bosses without the nerf turned on. That way the date on my kill being the same as the guy who used the nerf won't matter cause I have a separate achievement.
There's no contract attached to the subscription. Everyone has access the game equally. There's no deciding who deserves something more than someone else. That attitude is horrifying.

Blizzard: "Oh, you pay $15 a month but you don't deserve to see the content you're a paying for."

dot dot dot
90 Worgen Druid
0
Just looking for some sort of verification.

So basically 5% starting off just like ICC and every month after that another 5% up till we hit 35% which according to wowhead appears to be the cap. So thats like what 7-8 more months at least of Cataclysm with no new content.

That means 7-8 months maybe more before the release of MoP and we haven't even seen any information about beta yet... All we have seen is blizzcon making it look like MoP was damn near complete already and a way to get people to sign up for a "contract".

Now don't get me wrong here the buff is cool and you have the option to turn it off and on and I know it will be helpful for sure. I don't however see people wanting to play the game for another 7-8 months or more with no more content coming until the release of MoP... That will get old fast especially with so many new games coming out very soon. This in my opinion doesn't sound very fun.
Edited by Deneb on 1/18/2012 7:18 PM PST
90 Blood Elf Priest
12170


Because they want to and they pay the same amount for the game? I don't know, man. How is it good for the game to have 1% of players parading around for months and months and a 99% sitting around with nothing to do because they're sick and tired of wiping?

Your solution is "Well then they should get better or quit." and that's just not reasonable for a video game comprised of millions of people looking to just have some fun. It's still a computer game.


Paying for the game doesn't entitle you to beating it. You don't get to see the final cut scene to Zelda just because you bought the game. You have to actually play it. You guys introduced easy mode already with raid finder. You have no excuse anymore. None.

There is literally nothing you can say to justify this move.

What the gnome said...
85 Goblin Rogue
2050
01/18/2012 06:52 PMPosted by Bashiok
Believe it or not there are actually guilds and raiding groups that are attempting to progress through Normal and Heroic raids, but are hitting a wall, and have been hitting a wall. We have actual statistical data we base our changes on, we know exactly how many people are clearing these raids each week, we know exactly how many people are able to down just a few bosses, and how many were only able to down a few bosses every week for weeks on end and then stopped raiding altogether.


While it is understandable that people are hitting a wall, it is proven by the fact that Deathwing has been slain on Heroic difficulty that the content is not impossible. With that in mind, I go by the logic that anyone, even the worst player in the world, can make massive improvements if they put their mind to it. Maybe they need some guidance, maybe they just need practice. Perhaps there is some not-so-obvious mechanic in the background that they aren't considering when they play their character that is severely hindering their performance.

The nerfs would make more sense to come out later. We are still far enough from Mists of Pandaria that I firmly believe these walls can still be climbed over without the need of a nerf.

01/18/2012 06:52 PMPosted by Bashiok
The issue we're constantly trying to combat is the one where people feel like they're just out of options. One way this is an issue is the content is too easy, they blasted through it, have everything they could possibly want, and have nothing else to do. Ideally that's a small subset of very hardcore players. For everyone else it's a feeling of just being stuck with no possible way to progress. Very few players are willing to suit up, buff up, do all the necessary requirements to raid, jump in, and then do no better than they did last week for hours and hours, only to return next week and do the same.


I feel like that is a flaw with the guilds and players themselves, not the content. Even though I consider myself a semi-hardcore raider, as a raid leader I would never put my guild through several hours of attempts on the exact same boss if no noticeable progress was being made. Instead, I would throw us at the boss a few times and use the data I gather through mods such as Recount (as well as my own observations) to see who needs improvement and take them aside and help them privately. If I can't guide them in the right direction with my own knowledge, I will point them to someone who can.

I have in the past done additional attempts on bosses when it has become obvious that we will not defeat it that night, where my primary focus is watching the field and other aspects that I don't usually focus on during an attempt. I watch for people standing in the bad stuff, keep an eye on raid frames, and so on. It's quite possible that I am taking my responsibility as a raid leader too seriously and am overestimating the average Leader in a guild.

I do take my leadership position seriously, and I try my best to assist any of my raiders who may be falling behind so that we can, as a guild, progress further.

01/18/2012 06:52 PMPosted by Bashiok
If a guild doesn't want the help, they're free to opt out of the buff. For those that do it's an approximate 5% change, which is pretty minor, and we expect it to be about a month before we raise it another 5%. This first change will absolutely help the guilds that are just barely sc@%#!*# by, or just need a tiny bump to cross the next hurdle, but it's just not logical to exclaim that someone will roll into Raid Finder, grab a couple items, then be looting Heroic Deathwing's corpse the next night.


REPORTED FOR SWEARING.

But seriously though, the option - while very thoughtful - is simply not realistic. I know of several people who loathe these changes as much as I do who simply cannot convince their entire groups to agree to disabling the buff. While no doubt there are a handful of guilds out there who have no problem disabling it, there are many raiders out here who do not want it, but have no true choice in the matter.

I do, however, greatly respect your decision IF you decide to make the buff increase on a monthly basis at minimum. Please wait until the very first maintenance in March to increase the debuff further. I'll be much more tolerant of this change if the buff is, indeed, released at a reasonable pace.



All in all, I and I'm sure many others appreciate you taking the time to make your statement on this change, Bashiok. Even if I don't agree with the decision, at least you did take the time to communicate your thoughts to the community.

Thank you. :D
80 Blood Elf Hunter
0
01/18/2012 07:08 PMPosted by Bashiok

If they don't have to be like us, why do they have to have nerfs to get to our position in HM Raiding?


Because they want to and they pay the same amount for the game? I don't know, man. How is it good for the game to have 1% of players parading around for months and months and a 99% sitting around with nothing to do because they're sick and tired of wiping?

Your solution is "Well then they should get better or quit." and that's just not reasonable for a video game comprised of millions of people looking to just have some fun. It's still a computer game.


Well at least that has come from the mouth of blizzard now.


"they pay 15 so they are entitled to everything"
85 Night Elf Hunter
5090


Paying for the game doesn't entitle you to beating it. You don't get to see the final cut scene to Zelda just because you bought the game. You have to actually play it. You guys introduced easy mode already with raid finder. You have no excuse anymore. None.

There is literally nothing you can say to justify this move.

What the gnome said...


It's Blizzards game. Not yours. They decide what to do with their game in the end, despite anything the players want.

Boom.
100 Draenei Paladin
11975
If a guild doesn't want the help, they're free to opt out of the buff. For those that do it's an approximate 5% change, which is pretty minor, and we expect it to be about a month before we raise it another 5%. This first change will absolutely help the guilds that are just barely sc@%#!*# by, or just need a tiny bump to cross the next hurdle, but it's just not logical to exclaim that someone will roll into Raid Finder, grab a couple items, then be looting Heroic Deathwing's corpse the next night.


Anyone else find it hilarious that even Bashiok can't say the work sc@%@* or d@%@* or any similar word without getting bleeped?
85 Blood Elf Mage
6190


You may not be interested in heroic raiding, then. Which is why you have normal/LFR, tuned to your difficulty (sounds like normal is your cup of tea). You've seen the content and gotten the shiny loots.

Heroic is... an 'option'. And not one that's designed for everyone.


The nerf is an 'option'. And not one that's for everyone.


See what I did there.

See.

See.

Heroic is an option.

Nerf is an option.


+1 to you.

It's sad that elitists try and ignore all the other ways we can destroy them. They should take a step back and LOOK AND READ AND COMPREHEND WHAT IS BEING SAID.
90 Goblin Hunter
0
I'm quite laughing at the people saying "Turn the Buff Off".You don't understand the point and matter of myself, and the other people are complaining about


and what would that point be? that others can get what you can get with an advantage?

isn't the point of challenging yourself the effort of improving your skills and reveling in achieving what you aimed for by working hard and pushing yourself beyond your limits?

or is it just a "na na na boo boo, I did it first so I'm better than you. ;P" then someone who did it before you says, "but you did it after the raid got nerfed. :O"

Bashiok tells you why the raid buff is being implemented. the CONTENT it self IS NOT getting nerfed, PLAYERS will be recieving a small buff which can be turned off at anytime. your complaint really doesn't have any merit.

from what I've seen among "hardcores" who post on fourms, it's really just the "na na na boo boo" bragging rights. WHY do you care what baddies can and cannot do anyway? Maybe, JUST maybe, if you NEED to compare yourself to others you should compare your selves to other hardcores and not the baddies?

I would classify your type as hardcore mediocore: not good enough to compare against the best, but able to smoke the bads.
Edited by Kazreth on 1/18/2012 7:31 PM PST
100 Orc Warrior
14755
Blizzard then make another raid for the lower skill/dedication players. Make it comperable to (current) LFR difficulty on normal, and normal mode on heroic. Then they can see content in LFR, and clear their own raids. Stop nerfing this early into a tier.
90 Blood Elf Priest
0
01/18/2012 07:08 PMPosted by Bashiok

If they don't have to be like us, why do they have to have nerfs to get to our position in HM Raiding?


Because they want to and they pay the same amount for the game? I don't know, man. How is it good for the game to have 1% of players parading around for months and months and a 99% sitting around with nothing to do because they're sick and tired of wiping?

Your solution is "Well then they should get better or quit." and that's just not reasonable for a video game comprised of millions of people looking to just have some fun. It's still a computer game.



"lfr is for the people who just want to have some fun". Normal is for the people who just want to have fun, in a guild.


Hell...so is heroic.


What about the players who don't play 4 days a week, burn the content, but still want to enjoy the heroic? Are we supposed to quit?

I don't want to nerf other peoples fun. But I want to have fun too, and you guys aren't putting the bare minimum in to make that happen.

Why would i be happy to, in my eyes, be losing content, and see it go to someone else? I have no ill will towards them, but i don't want to twiddle my thumbs anymore than they do.
90 Draenei Paladin
8265
Why spit on the casual community? People like me still won't do normal/hm, no matter if the buff was 5% or 50%. I'm done with scheduled content(be it one day or 6), so nerfs to said content don't matter to me and the rest of the LFR folks.

Should be talking to the people who run normals and can't clear, and the to the guilds that are hitting a roadblock in hm progression then falling apart. Talk to your peers. Work out more easily repeatable strats. And most importatly, leave me and my peers out of it.
90 Blood Elf Paladin
10580
How do you know that those that stopped raiding after hitting a wall stopped because it was too difficult? Maybe they stopped because they realized it's boring and that repeating the same content on three different difficulties while gaining +5 ilevels in between each one isn't fun.
90 Night Elf Druid
15070
For everyone reading, this is in reference to: http://us.battle.net/wow/en/blog/4326384/Dragon_Soul_Difficulty_Changes-1_18_2012#blog

Believe it or not there are actually guilds and raiding groups that are attempting to progress through Normal and Heroic raids, but are hitting a wall, and have been hitting a wall. We have actual statistical data we base our changes on, we know exactly how many people are clearing these raids each week, we know exactly how many people are able to down just a few bosses, and how many were only able to down a few bosses every week for weeks on end and then stopped raiding altogether.

The issue we're constantly trying to combat is the one where people feel like they're just out of options. One way this is an issue is the content is too easy, they blasted through it, have everything they could possibly want, and have nothing else to do. Ideally that's a small subset of very hardcore players. For everyone else it's a feeling of just being stuck with no possible way to progress. Very few players are willing to suit up, buff up, do all the necessary requirements to raid, jump in, and then do no better than they did last week for hours and hours, only to return next week and do the same.

If a guild doesn't want the help, they're free to opt out of the buff. For those that do it's an approximate 5% change, which is pretty minor, and we expect it to be about a month before we raise it another 5%. This first change will absolutely help the guilds that are just barely sc@%#!*# by, or just need a tiny bump to cross the next hurdle, but it's just not logical to exclaim that someone will roll into Raid Finder, grab a couple items, then be looting Heroic Deathwing's corpse the next night.

We feel the content has been out for quite a while now, that most people who have progressed and downed Deathwing on Heroic have done so, they've had sufficient time to celebrate in their accomplishments, and these very small progressive alterations will only help guilds that are already doing well in the raid get over some hurdles they may be facing.


Seems entirely reasonable. Keep doing what you're doing, boys in blue! :)
90 Human Warrior
10750
01/18/2012 07:16 PMPosted by Fanahlia
There's no contract attached to the subscription.

Completely off topic but...
Yeah there is, on mine. :P
This topic has reached its post limit. You may no longer post or reply to posts for this topic.

Please report any Code of Conduct violations, including:

Threats of violence. We take these seriously and will alert the proper authorities.

Posts containing personal information about other players. This includes physical addresses, e-mail addresses, phone numbers, and inappropriate photos and/or videos.

Harassing or discriminatory language. This will not be tolerated.

Forums Code of Conduct

Report Post # written by

Reason
Explain (256 characters max)

Reported!

[Close]