Legendary Daggers Proc rate issue.

85 Human Mage
6720
I swear threads that are older than a few weeks should be auto-locked.
Edited by Wintel on 4/4/2012 4:47 AM PDT
Reply Quote
90 Human Rogue
10910
04/03/2012 10:56 PMPosted by Haviki
I got the daggers last week, and Im thinking about to leave this game and play other.... absolutely worse legendary weapon.... and Im forced to switch to a spec that I can't use alot of skills in actual raid, if I wish to be on 1st dps.... thanks for slow fall blizzard, my cloak parachutes are better!


A bad rogue with good daggers is still a bad rogue. There daggers are BiS and in the right hands they are very powerful.
Reply Quote
90 Undead Warlock
9730
I am tired of this thread being brought back up because people still complain about the proc rate for combat.

The proc rate is lower because of the synergy between eviscerates and adrenaline rush. So instead of the daggers directly increasing your dps through the proc, it is indirectly increasing dps due to more uses of AR.

I do not have a rogue as a main and am smart enough to figure that out. Now please rogues, let this die already.
Reply Quote
85 Blood Elf Paladin
11025
I just know that those daggers are stupid OP in PvP.

Say hello to burst and bye-bye to your health!

/endrant
Reply Quote
90 Human Rogue
10910
04/06/2012 07:03 AMPosted by Jaelle
I just know that those daggers are stupid OP in PvP.


The proc is pretty underwhelming in PvP unless the stars align and they proc right out of a shadow dance. They do hit like a truck but if you wanna talk about stupid OP you have a much better case against H Vial and H Cunning.
Reply Quote
90 Pandaren Shaman
16840
I think both legendary weapons need to be buffed to be on par with Gurthalak, Voice of the Deeps
Reply Quote
90 Night Elf Rogue
15325
01/20/2012 02:43 AMPosted by Strifelol
Some of your replies have nothing to do with what I even posted. I'm not asking to make the dagger proc "Overpowered" I just want it to be good enough for me not to have to switch to different weapons because my spec wont proc them enough to justify using them. I play all three specs favoring Sub/Combat so I think many of the raiding rogues would like to be able to use their legendaries for every spec like it was intended. I'm also sure the other rogues/shamans are going to be annoyed that I would be wanting to get the heroic weapons off deathwing too as well as having legendary daggers(not because I'm selfish and want everything but because I want to maximize my dps), kinda pointless if you ask me.


You must understand.

You are talking about Rogues on the Damage Dealing forums.

Every butt hurt poster who got beaten by a Rogue or hit with a Kidney Shot at some point in there life is going to come in here and say "QQ MAOR LEARN 2 PLAY!"

Doesn't matter the topic. This is why it is so hard to have any rational discussions about Rogues, and I maintain one of the reasons we are so hindered in our evolution as a class.
Reply Quote
55 Worgen Death Knight
0
....and I maintain one of the reasons we are so hindered in our evolution as a class.
Hahahahaha. The Legendary DAGGERS are just that, Daggers. You mean to tell me they're not the bees knees for the one Rogue spec that doesn't want a dagger in the mainhand? You don't say?! If a DK only, legendary set of one handed swords came out, guess which spec the DK's who got it would use?

Firestyle if you don't understand how DW works in regards to damage meters, you should have your free stick taken away from you, and given to someone else.
Reply Quote
85 Troll Hunter
7950
04/06/2012 02:28 PMPosted by Ripsnarl
....and I maintain one of the reasons we are so hindered in our evolution as a class.
Hahahahaha. The Legendary DAGGERS are just that, Daggers. You mean to tell me they're not the bees knees for the one Rogue spec that doesn't want a dagger in the mainhand? You don't say?! If a DK only, legendary set of one handed swords came out, guess which spec the DK's who got it would use?

Firestyle if you don't understand how DW works in regards to damage meters, you should have your free stick taken away from you, and given to someone else.


Give it to me, I want that mount ):
Reply Quote
90 Night Elf Rogue
15325
04/06/2012 02:28 PMPosted by Ripsnarl
....and I maintain one of the reasons we are so hindered in our evolution as a class.
Hahahahaha. The Legendary DAGGERS are just that, Daggers. You mean to tell me they're not the bees knees for the one Rogue spec that doesn't want a dagger in the mainhand? You don't say?! If a DK only, legendary set of one handed swords came out, guess which spec the DK's who got it would use?

Firestyle if you don't understand how DW works in regards to damage meters, you should have your free stick taken away from you, and given to someone else.


You didn't read my post at all did you?

Or at the very least you did not comprehend the point I was trying to make. (Which you only helped to reiterate.)
Reply Quote
90 Night Elf Rogue
16115
The daggers are very good.

Yes, by standards set by previous legendaries, you could feel a tad slighted by them- but an honest evaluation will show that the daggers are very good, and rogues are about as great as they have ever been. I think there was a few weeks in S3 that might have topped this, maybe?

As has been explained in this thread, combat stacks slower because each fury wave, while easily the weakest directly for all specs, is a huge cooldown boost because of restless blades. That alone makes them fight changing in pve, and in pvp my opponents have to respond to the wings.

I think the daggers are great, one of the best things ever added to the class. If you don't, I don't really know how to say it differently, but you are probably expecting something that rogues aren't going to deliver.
Reply Quote
90 Troll Rogue
21045
The daggers are very good.

Yes, by standards set by previous legendaries, you could feel a tad slighted by them- but an honest evaluation will show that the daggers are very good, and rogues are about as great as they have ever been. I think there was a few weeks in S3 that might have topped this, maybe?

As has been explained in this thread, combat stacks slower because each fury wave, while easily the weakest directly for all specs, is a huge cooldown boost because of restless blades. That alone makes them fight changing in pve, and in pvp my opponents have to respond to the wings.

I think the daggers are great, one of the best things ever added to the class. If you don't, I don't really know how to say it differently, but you are probably expecting something that rogues aren't going to deliver.

Rogues being stupid powerful right now isn't really relevant to the daggers being pretty lackluster. I understand why combat stacks so much slower but it also makes them very vulnerable to fight mechanics. A badly timed proc on most in fights in DS means that I'm done for the fight, I won't be seeing another proc. Its frustrating to have them proc just as you hit killing spree so you will at best get half benefit, yes poorly timed procs happen to everyone but the daggers are unique because they are a once every 2-3 minute proc and because so much is riding on being able to perfectly exploit that proc.

More generally the daggers expose one of the oddest parts of rogue design. Finishers aren't that dangerous. I don't know when exactly it happened but the intuitive design and the actual design don't match. Combo points and finishers imply that you are building up to something when in reality you aren't building up to anything more then a different button to press. Outside of a big deep insight evis crit hitting evis doesn't feel like something that was worth building up to.
Reply Quote
90 Night Elf Rogue
16115
You can /cancelaura killing spree- I'm pretty sure it's worth it to land the eviscerates instead.

I agree that that is a lame part about the daggers as combat. I think, honestly, that this is an issue with combat. The spec has so little choice and strategy compared to before, with restless blades utterly dominating the scene, haste being so optimal, and the spec in general being so global capped. With a one second global cooldown, you shouldn't (and before this expac never were) fighting every moment to queue a strike, and failing hard if not.

Finishers being weak is... well, first, it is spec dependent. A chain of envenoms doesn't feel weak, and a chain of mastery-boosted eviscerates is also pretty pleasing. It's trash for combat not counting restless blades, and you are also correct that building to finishers happens very quickly, and because of that the finishers are weak. They are still stronger than the builders though, so there is that- and they are also energy neutral (and in reality cost negative energy).When wings proc in pvp, they are good. I agree that an eviscerate isn't that amazing a reward, but getting four-six of them right in a row really does a lot of damage and is GREAT pressure, especially because you probably have a full energy bar right after.The daggers are lackluster when you do the following comparisons:

1- Burst compare- shadowmourne or dragonwrath. These legendaries can blow stuff up surprisingly at times, and the daggers have a build up, and are not as explosive.
2- Fight shifting- the ulduar mace rendered an enemy arena team mostly unkillable while the shield proc was active- the wings proc isn't that close.
3- Comp crushing- +AP versus demons was pretty amazing in BC!

But think about it- a shadowmourne doesn't get cooldowns out of an enemy arena team. Wings does. You can't turn on find weakness or vendetta because you suspect you are about to get a dragonwrath proc- it's entirely random, instead of something you can fish for. If you have wings during find weakness, WOW. While you could and would play around the ICD of an enemy mace, you can't effectively do so with wings. In pve, while wings CAN proc at terrible times, when they proc at the RIGHT times as combat, it changes the fight to one with an extra AR, as mutilate gives you a phase where you hammer envenoms (and maybe a rupture), and as sub will refresh recup and slice if it is about that time, and just give you strong eviscerates otherwise.

I think the RNG on the combat proc makes it frustrating, but I think combat itself is frustrating and largely resource-free. I would say that combat is almost a failed spec by the stated cata spec goals- though please don't take this as a statement about combat's performance (which is great) or utility (which is perfect flurry damage, and both effective and cool). There are just very few choices in combat, I think, is the issue.I just don't see these as issues with daggers. I mean, yes a dragonwrath can fork a three orb mind blast, but wings lets me go recup slice if I need, or kidney evis evis evis etc if I want. No one else has a legednary stun proc, right?

Edit: I also want to point out that rogues being good and daggers being ok is FAR better than the opposite situation of rogues being only ok and daggers being good. You'd feel pretty silly if like death knights and warriors were a mile ahead on the meters AND you had legendaries- and you'd feel VERY sad indeed if you were one of the rogues WITHOUT the oranges, knowing that you aren't even balanced WITH them, and you don't have them.

Just saying!
Edited by Verain on 4/8/2012 2:27 AM PDT
Reply Quote

Please report any Code of Conduct violations, including:

Threats of violence. We take these seriously and will alert the proper authorities.

Posts containing personal information about other players. This includes physical addresses, e-mail addresses, phone numbers, and inappropriate photos and/or videos.

Harassing or discriminatory language. This will not be tolerated.

Forums Code of Conduct

Report Post # written by

Reason
Explain (256 characters max)
Submit Cancel

Reported!

[Close]