World of Warcraft™

Last night in DS the Gurth proc for our warrior outdps'd my staffs proc consistently and by a large margin in every.single.fight. Worst was on the unsleeping dude.

Tentacle did 2.7mil damage. My DWTR? 650k.

But yet the staffs proc was what required the nerf. It feels like a massive joke from Blizz. 4 months I spent in FL putting this thing together and for what? For it to be nerfed and be completely outclassed by even the 390ilvl LFR version of the Gurth? Is it really too much to ask for the thing to be, at the very least, on par with a 390 LFR weapon?

Also, I really appreciate the staff being tuned to almost never proc on Mind Blast and instead vastly preferring to proc on dot ticks. Every time I cast a 3 stacked empowered shadows mind blast I think to myself "This will be the one it procs on!" And every time, I'm let down. Its starting to be soul crushing. I can count on one hand with three fingers missing how many times the staff has procced on a three stacked Mind Blast in the two weeks I've had it.

Brb, gearing up my warrior.

Because you don't understand the staff proc. The damage you are seeing is only DoT duplication procs, and it isn't showing you additional damage from Mind Blast, and *I Think* Mind Flay - but it could since it's a DoT.

You are going to need to count how many mind blasts you cast, and review logs and see how many went off to get an indicator of how many procs you are getting.

Also, I think Arms is in for a nerf at some point soon.

^

01/18/2012 08:18 AMPosted by Facemeltage

Also, I really appreciate the staff being tuned to almost never proc on Mind Blast and instead vastly preferring to proc on dot ticks

... Direct damage spells don't proc with "Dragonwrath" in their strings, they proc with the normal direct damage string for the spell that it was procced from, only DoT's have a special "Dragonwrath" string that indicates it was a proc...

So annoying that people still don't know this.

01/18/2012 08:18 AMPosted by Facemeltage

Gurth proc for our warrior outdps'd my staffs proc consistently and by a large margin in every.single.fight. Worst was on the unsleeping dude.

From what I can tell Blizzard has balanced the game around you having DTR, were you doing the same DPS as said Warrior, or was he doing lots more?

People still don't know how to look at WoL?

I understand how the proc works. It doesnt count procc'd mind blasts and shadow word deaths as wrath of tarecgosa damage. Not sure how it counts Imp devo..

In total 46 Mind Blasts either hit or crit. It would be pretty safe to assume that 4, absolute tops, were staff procs. At an average of about 50k per mind blast that would give me an extra 200k (could fluctuate higher if it procced on a empowered MB crit..).

SW:D: says I cast 24. A reasonable guesstimate would be 2 (3 tops) of them were staff procs. At an average of 44k each that gives me another 88k-132k

So 938k to 982k0ish. Compared to 2.7 million. Three times more..

In truth, I was trying to make it sound worse than it really is, but even after adding in the unaccounted for damage (hard to do accurately) it still doesn't come close to comparing to Gurth..

Heres the logs for that fight. Maybe I'm not adding something right or something. Feel free to correct me.

http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/rt-65g2vwpb8fysrpmv/analyze/dd/source/?s=2619&e=3219

01/18/2012 08:37 AMPosted by Sethmann

Also, I really appreciate the staff being tuned to almost never proc on Mind Blast and instead vastly preferring to proc on dot ticks

... Direct damage spells don't proc with "Dragonwrath" in their strings, they proc with the normal direct damage string for the spell that it was procced from, only DoT's have a special "Dragonwrath" string that indicates it was a proc...

So annoying that people still don't know this.

Gurth proc for our warrior outdps'd my staffs proc consistently and by a large margin in every.single.fight. Worst was on the unsleeping dude.

From what I can tell Blizzard has balanced the game around you having DTR, were you doing the same DPS as said Warrior, or was he doing lots more?

I don't think the dps margin is even the issue after that statement though. We are balanced as if we had the damn legendary, which is retarded. If proof would be needed, just look at the fire nerfs. If it was something about the spec, they would have touched combust or lb...but they solely nerfed the 2 nukes that could bring a big ignite if the staff procced. Sad.

In total 46 Mind Blasts either hit or crit. It would be pretty safe to assume that 4, absolute tops, were staff procs. At an average of about 50k per mind blast that would give me an extra 200k.

This cracks me up.

01/18/2012 08:37 AMPosted by Sethmann

Also, I really appreciate the staff being tuned to almost never proc on Mind Blast and instead vastly preferring to proc on dot ticks

... Direct damage spells don't proc with "Dragonwrath" in their strings, they proc with the normal direct damage string for the spell that it was procced from, only DoT's have a special "Dragonwrath" string that indicates it was a proc...

So annoying that people still don't know this.

I was referring the the lowered % chance of a proc on a DD spell vs a dot. In my limited dummy testing my proc rate on dots as a spriest is around 12%. Spike/Blast/SWD sit around 8%, usually lower.

It procs around 50% less on direct damage spells compared to dot ticks.

Also keep in mind that Gurth's proc replaces some 500 or so points of secondary stats, rather than being in addition to them.

It certainly is sad that the game is balanced around those dumb staffs.

Legendary items truly ruin the game. They make people retarded and cause those around them, including those that have the item to have entitlement issues.

Hunter DPS sucking is because of the staff. Casters without the staff sucking? That's because of the staff. Melee having to get 10% AP buff, a legendary for Rogues and retarded proc weapons from DW? That's because of the staff.

This whole tier is balanced around an item that was too easy to get. It's only barrier to entry was time, and not skill. Damned if you do and damned if you don't though. If you don't put them in people will complain that their class/spec hasn't had a turn yet! So much complaining over 2 items in each expansion lol.

We would be better off without legendary items even in this game anymore. Blizzard could in fact probably troll us by randomly coloring a weapon orange and people wouldn't notice the difference.

Mind Flay is a dot and is counted as "Wrath of tarecgosa", shadow priests have the highest % of their damage done as dots. It's not like he has a hidden 2.1 million damage worth of mindblast procs, so saying that the sword did more damage than his staff is a safe assumption.

That sword needs a ICD and an increased proc rate, look at the DK in your raid, he had it too and did 400k damage with the proc.

01/18/2012 09:07 AMPosted by Varune

It's not like he has a hidden 2.1 million damage worth of mindblast procs, so saying that the sword did more damage than his staff is a safe assumption.

Clearly the only thing that can be taken from this is that Gurthalak, Voice of the Deeps should be orange and Blizzard needs to add in a related Guild perk, maybe a non-combat tentacle pet?

So, viewing the linked log and it definitely looks like the warrior had an above-average proc rate for the Yor'sahj kill.

19 procs on 816 attacks (could be lower, as low as 778 - could someone confirm whether or not Sweeping Strikes or Thunderclap can proc it?) gives him a 2.32% (could be as high as 2.44%) proc rate, 16% (could be as high as 22%) higher than average. 15-16 would've been a more reasonable number of procs.

What I also find fascinating about this is the large difference in the # of ticks each tentacle is getting. The DK using the sword got 6 procs to the 19 the Warrior received. However, the Warrior got nearly 5x as many Mind Flay ticks from his tentacles (208 v 42.) Something's a little wonky there.

As someone with a legendary staff my actual opinions on this subject are going to look really biased. The above pickings from the logs are just food for thought.

It certainly is sad that the game is balanced around those dumb staffs.

Legendary items truly ruin the game. They make people retarded and cause those around them, including those that have the item to have entitlement issues.

Hunter DPS sucking is because of the staff. Casters without the staff sucking? That's because of the staff. Melee having to get 10% AP buff, a legendary for Rogues and retarded proc weapons from DW? That's because of the staff.

This whole tier is balanced around an item that was too easy to get. It's only barrier to entry was time, and not skill. Damned if you do and damned if you don't though. If you don't put them in people will complain that their class/spec hasn't had a turn yet! So much complaining over 2 items in each expansion lol.

We would be better off without legendary items even in this game anymore. Blizzard could in fact probably troll us by randomly coloring a weapon orange and people wouldn't notice the difference.

A big Problem with casters obtaining the staff is for 25m at beginning of 4.2 they were handed out like candy while 10m were much slower, and if some guilds were late to the party (finishing up Heroic t11, newly forming during that process, etc) they were hammered, and more casual guilds do not have the raid nights to dedicate to farm FL with DS avilible

I believe some of these issuse can be balanced better with more PTR testing than rushing things out to compete with other games.( another example of FL trash drops, very abundant for server 1st guilds [or people close to that level], while other guilds who were late were severely punished)

It definitely bugs me that the weapon I spent about 5 months assembling, only puts me on par with a warrior who won the roll on the LFR gurth sword.

Because casters should be required to farm old content for half of a year in order to compete with any old melee that gets an LFR deathwing weapon, or a wellfare 397 set of daggers.

It definitely bugs me that the weapon I spent about 5 months assembling, only puts me on par with a warrior who won the roll on the LFR gurth sword.

Because casters should be required to farm old content for half of a year in order to compete with any old melee that gets an LFR deathwing weapon, or a wellfare 397 set of daggers.

Because if they didnt raiding would be about how many staff-casters you can cram into your raid, screw everything else.

It sucks either way. At this point I dont know if shared lockouts or the stupid staff were the dumber of the things blizzard did this expansion.

No more legendaries in WoW, please.

You're delirious if you think the LFR Gurth is better than Dragonwrath. Especially for a Mage.

I don't see where the entitlement comes from. Should a whole subset of DPS fall drastically behind because all caster DPS can obtain a legendary? Should casters who aren't going to get this legendary fall even FARTHER behind the physical DPS? Should hunters just be forgotten?

So what you showed up and did normal modes or whatever for a couple of months and ended up getting something that is BiS for 4.2 and 4.3 without having to think about upgrading until the expansion. What more do you want?

Is Gurth broken? Yes, but it's pretty much designed to be. It might be an issue with Warriors more than DKs/Paladins so IDK.

Warriors are fine, nothing to see here. Please move along, the only issue with the sword was ret doing more damage than intended with it. That is all.

You're delirious if you think the LFR Gurth is better than Dragonwrath. Especially for a Mage.

I don't see where the entitlement comes from. Should a whole subset of DPS fall drastically behind because all caster DPS can obtain a legendary? Should casters who aren't going to get this legendary fall even FARTHER behind the physical DPS? Should hunters just be forgotten?

So what you showed up and did normal modes or whatever for a couple of months and ended up getting something that is BiS for 4.2 and 4.3 without having to think about upgrading until the expansion. What more do you want?

Is Gurth broken? Yes, but it's pretty much designed to be. It might be an issue with Warriors more than DKs/Paladins so IDK.

I would like to point out that after this patch is over there will be more Melee using Gurth than Casters who have the legendary I think I mentioned this in another Gurth VS Legendary thread, "2 Friends hit 85 on the same day, 1 is a mage/warlock, the other is a DK, they both want the best gear for their toons, Mage finds a guild grinds Firelands for 10weeks, the DK Grinds Heroics for 2 Weeks and then Does LFR for 3 Weeks and Wins the Roll on Gurth."