Question to the Higher ups (new models)

90 Draenei Priest
11855
01/19/2012 07:23 PMPosted by Zarhym
It's absolutely not a "too bad" situation, Sutei. I know the concept of us having near unlimited resources to throw at whatever we want to is intriguing, but it's just not the case. We don't have an army of artists on layaway that we can transfer onto a project.

I take this as a slap in the face, lets look at patch 4.3 as a whole.

End Time - Dragonblight with new lighting and skybox, the hardest part was probably throwing Deathwing on Wyrmrest Temple all the art assets were probably in game.

Well of Eternity - Feels like most of the original content and most 'art' value is in this 5 man although I cant claim how much the art team is a part of and how many assets had to be modeled and textured.

Hour of Twilight - Very cheap, again back to Dragonblight with minor changes

Dragon Soul - Possibly the most disappointing and least original raid content I have seen. I think I got more of a sense of something new and exciting raiding Trial of the Crusader and Ruby Sanctum. We have Wyrmrest Temple, Eye of Eternity, Loot Ship with a new skybox, Deathwings back I guess, and the Maelstrom. Modeling the Spine of Deathwing might have taken some work but it wasn't a reinvention of the wheel. Madness of Deathwing might have taken some work but I really don't care.

Darkmoon Faire - I don't think anyone cares.

TLDR - Where is the new art?
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10 Troll Warlock
0
01/20/2012 09:06 AMPosted by Noobcâkes
Wrong priority. Our char model is long overdue and should be your top priority.

I wouldn't say that so much as we all know the "We're working so hard on X that Y just can't be a priority!" argument is nothing other than kicking the can down the road. It might be time for Blizzard reps to stop saying it's something they'd like to do or it's in the works and just say that it's not happening because armor sets are more important.
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85 Human Paladin
0
If you look at the Chuck Norris commercial ad, you will see what seems to be an updated human male Model. That human model has updated textures, slimmer forearms, smaller neck/shoulder muscles and better looking hands. It also uses the Monk animations. It already looks much better than the current human males. The head was probably made just for the commercial though, but still, the face and hair look much better also.

And here is this picture. This was linked by someone on these forums (can't remember who). Apparently, this picture was used at Blizzcon to show off the gear. You will see, that it uses a different human male model. I think.. though he has some sharp finger nails..

http://i56.tinypic.com/2iivbpg.png
Edited by Dereden on 1/20/2012 10:26 AM PST
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90 Night Elf Warrior
9605
01/19/2012 07:23 PMPosted by Zarhym
If all of this makes you feel that much further away from ever seeing new character models, I can say the project is still a regular topic of discussion for us. We want to figure out the best way to introduce such a feature without shocking a huge chunk of the playerbase that doesn't really think about how their character's features could be improved every time they log into the game.


OK, someone kind of touched on this, but this excuse has been really irritating me for years. We are always fed the reasoning that some people will be shocked / upset by the changes to character models so you drag your feet for "fear of change". YET, you totally revamp talents, eliminate threat, radically change raiding difficulty, and introduce an Asian theme (a theme which is not even identifiable with high fantasy "Warcraft") without any fear it will shock or upset people. I mean sure, you probably worry somewhat, but you push it through despite. So I have to say, this excuse doesn't hold water, period.
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90 Human Paladin
12370
Why is Zarhym bascially sounds like he slamming a player for making a request, made by many many others. It also not reassuring to hear that we went from "We are planning on updating character models," to "We're not sure when we will"


"I know the concept of us having near unlimited resources to throw at whatever we want to is intriguing, but it's just not the case. We don't have an army of artists on layaway that we can transfer onto a project. "

I sort of get annoyed with this comment, overall Cata content development was slower and smaller the WOTLK, and smaller then content releases in BC. Especially when last year we were promised faster content releases. (happy to get a exact quote if you like).

Wow needs a complete graphics update, I read the claim if we change the appearance to much we will ruin the feel of the game. Can't agree with this, sorry but if you can argue how great the existing world is, go play Wow, and find a tree. That screams everything you need to know about the current graphics.

Your the top MMO, you gross the profits, great large scale improvements should be possible. Wow and Blizz should be and maintain ahead of the curve.
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85 Night Elf Druid
5935
My question is:

Games like Ultima Online and Everquest updated their character models relatively quickly without many of the resources and technology available to Blizzard Entertainment today.

Ultima Online AND EQ also went as far as giving players he options to toggle between the old models and the new models at the players preference.

Now I'm not saying that I don't appreciate the work all the guys and girls at Blizz put in. But after what, 8 years? How come new character models haven't been a bigger issue than say, pet battles or something that is not quite as important?
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90 Draenei Shaman
16335
Well, it seems Zar doesn't feel like replying to hard questions. This request has been on the table for years; how is it still only being discussed? Either Blizz is working on them now and keeping them a secret, or they aren't doing nearly enough as they could be. What about that Chuck Norris human model? That's half the work right there! And they made it for a commercial of all things! The worst part of this is how the blues respond to players; sarcastic and demeaning.
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85 Dwarf Shaman
1980
I want better beards


Only one class gets epic beards. Want beauty such as this, roll Dwarf.
Edited by Firegut on 1/20/2012 11:44 AM PST
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85 Gnome Warrior
5965
01/20/2012 11:44 AMPosted by Firegut
I want better beards


Only one class gets epic beards. Want beauty such as this, roll Dwarf.


Your beard looks like Dirty play-doh.
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90 Blood Elf Paladin
17515
Hi Zarhym. I read and follow many of your post since they are quite insightful at times. I do have a question about your last post above.


If all of this makes you feel that much further away from ever seeing new character models, I can say the project is still a regular topic of discussion for us. We want to figure out the best way to introduce such a feature without shocking a huge chunk of the playerbase that doesn't really think about how their character's features could be improved every time they log into the game.


What did you mean by 'introduce such a feature without shocking a huge chunk of the playerbase'? I run a rather large guild (700+) with a very vocal guild chat. The topic of models comes up often actually and not once have I got the sense that anyone wants their antiquated vanilla models. If anything, theyd be happily surprised (shocked?) if they log in and see their brand new model. At the end of the day, you could play it safe and just up the polygon count and make the models fit with the current quality of the game without 'changing' the actual look and feel of the race.

So just curious as to what you meant by the whole 'shocked' comment. Tyu :)
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85 Night Elf Druid
9250
People are still missing some of the big issues here with the reasons why t hasn't been implented or worked on yet...

But first:

* Because you don't like the new content, does not mean that it didn't take a lot of work. To design a boss fight, requires concepts, mechanics and art design. That's the *DESIGN* phase and they haven't probably even started attempting to create it. There's a lot more work that goes into a single encounter in game than create a random mob, give it abilities and plonk it here.

* No one cares if you only choose to PvP/Raid/RP/whatever you do in game... The game is to cater for millions. Not your individual tastes, so get off your high horse and stop thinking you all speak for the entire player base, because gues s what? You speak for 1/10,000,000th of the player base.

* Remember that pets in the shop, in game and stuff are done by seperate design teams, so you can stop accusing Blizz of wasting time on them.


Now, to character models, there are a number of very valid reasons for this as many have stated before...

* People will always complain. Seriously. If you have not seen that with WoW yet, have you been hiding under a rock?

* Updating the model requires quite extensive work for a single model. Everything needs to be right or the model can screw up... A simple mistake in the code of the Night Elf Female model and poof! All players of Night Elf females may suddenly be completely unplayable until Blizz fixes it, which could take some time.

* It's not a simple case of just making the figures rounded and more polygons. They want to --COMPLETELY-- overhaul the models. That takes a lot more time and resources than people give them credit for.
A lot of the 'amatuer edits' you see by fans online are that... Edits of the existing models or other models elsewhere. Many have not been built from the ground up. And even then, these people may have done what? 2-3 models? We're talking about 10+ races, times 2 for each gender, plus animations and everything else...
That's a HELL of a lot of work.

* In regards to that, not only do they have to update the model, but EVERY piece of armor in the game to match that model. The armor has to sit correctly on a new model, otherwise surprise, surprise, there will be complaints.
Armor is not a simple copy paste as many people would think it is.

* Have you considered all art teams are probably working on the new expansion at the moment? Some of you may not care for the new features and protest that you don't want time wasted on the newer stuff, but want the character models... Well, you can be rest assured, people would complain if everything in MoP was just a rehash of classic WoW.
The new content WILL take priorty over the old, because, while many players do want new models, many other have to decide if they want the models and another year of the same old content or new content and new models down the track?
New content will win because while new models are pretty, it does not add an incentive for people to keep playing.

* Change is a big, big thing... Look at how players react to the changing of Talents, removal of abilties, etc, etc... To just go and up and change the character models is a huge change and while many may say that you can easily accept it, it's again, your opinion.
Every time I log into my druid, this is how I see her. Now to suddenly have her changed and not be able to get that look I always envisioned her with back is a big thing... It can ruin and break the character for me, because I'm attached to the character.
This is why they need to work out how best to do it... How can they adapt and update the models to a new look and not annoy most of their player base?
Claiming that this is a lie/cover up is not true. Just look at players who have had something small of theirs changed visually and hated it? Character model is a MUCH bigger issue.


Overall, I want new models as much as the next person, but I'd rather Blizz take their time, and provide us with new content and did the models right, than rush it and give us something hurried and not worth it, and skim out on newer content for us.
The fact that they are addressing they keep coming back to discuss it means they are aware and want to do it. The important part there is that they plan to do it eventually. Rather than tell you to sit down, shut up and keep playing with what you've got, they have informed you their plans and wants for something that yes, is a frequently asked issue.


TL;DR version... Updating the models in a lot harder and time consuming than people think. The fanbase willl fight it as well, regardless of what you claim otherwise and you have to weigh up if newer content to keep playing is worth less to you than newer art... And then knock it into your brain that you are again, only 1/10,000,000th of the WoW playerbase.
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86 Human Paladin
8085
High-Heels.
*wink*

01/19/2012 07:23 PMPosted by Zarhym
If all of this makes you feel that much further away from ever seeing new character models, I can say the project is still a regular topic of discussion for us. We want to figure out the best way to introduce such a feature without shocking a huge chunk of the playerbase that doesn't really think about how their character's features could be improved every time they log into the game.
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1 Blood Elf Warrior
0
01/20/2012 10:03 AMPosted by Alarial
Darkmoon Faire - I don't think anyone cares.


I don't think you speak for anyone other then yourself.



In regards to that, not only do they have to update the model, but EVERY piece of armor in the game to match that model. The armor has to sit correctly on a new model, otherwise surprise, surprise, there will be complaints.
Armor is not a simple copy paste as many people would think it is.


Not just armor, but mounts, animations, weapons, and many other things will need to be adjusted to work with new models.
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